The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: earlan357 on May 16, 2017, 01:27:58 AM
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So I noticed that the P-10C mag release button is pretty hard to activate without adjusting your grip. It's quite rough feeling when pressed too. I studied the parts and found where I could smooth it out.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WGA5wgJ8Flk/WVZd5kZ3GEI/AAAAAAAAA3I/2xWmuZbD1HMO43FwHhgdiHBgHpaGSqiYgCLcBGAs/s1600/P-10%2Bmag.png)
The catch itself is already pretty smooth. Still, I polished the circled area with a dremel, a felt wheel, and some Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-od86xxQi5Yk/WVZd43yW_WI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/hUnRbn-SSTQbIUlFxBQyZGYHzTeD4Kf6gCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3233.jpg)
On the release button, the upper sections of the "V" slides along the bottom of the mag catch as it's pressed. Mine had a very rough edge on both sides.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sn5u2l_42iQ/WVZd5O5oh3I/AAAAAAAAA2g/Gb_yhHehBiQbiUaxpnWGgK19LQBP-fWTACLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3237.jpg)
The "V" is 90 degrees, so I used a Brownells X-Fine Ceramic stone to clean up the edges. I slide the release button back and forth a dozen or so times.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e7K9kX6e4F8/WVZd42Sw64I/AAAAAAAAA2U/cWJmrqJGRU09G--UxAiWJA_FGwbg_kYlQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3232.jpg)
Below you can see the spots that got smoothed by the ceramic stone.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-veg_D7-8poI/WVZd5A_ZziI/AAAAAAAAA2k/LGFFAry3I8QyMKTXBdhMwWfoKbho_ox2wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3238.jpg)
Now the release is smooth and much easier to activate. I can release the mag without shifting my thumb now.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2OpzJ5jV5Iw/WVZd5L7zfEI/AAAAAAAAA2c/HoT0ze-pXr0QDsbqnCyZGYzWTYeiwVCIQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3236.jpg)
---Update--
So I was talking back and forth with rich63 and I decided to see if I had any other springs that could lighten up the mag release button.
Left: P-10C mag release spring Right: Glock 19 factory firing pin safety spring
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TaVvSOJIav0/WVZd2lyifEI/AAAAAAAAA1M/Q4jJNNFyojYuaBeXAaSdJqLzqaSv1K-oQCLcBGAs/s1600/D0A1FDAD-D41D-42DA-A2C1-3E6E14541E48.jpg)
The Glock spring fits perfectly and really drops the mag release button effort, similar to my M&P .22. It feels good with an empty mag but it's almost too light with no mag or the mag loaded and the slide locked back. Without the follower pushing against the slide release, there's no extra resistance from the mag and I'm afraid I might accidentally release it while shooting or completing a reload. I'm going to leave it in though and see what happens at my pistol class this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs)
Update:
Well the Glock spring made the button easier to press. Too easy. Twice I accidentally pressed it with my support hand palm while shooting during the class. Admittedly, it was during 10 shot rapid fire strings where I got lazy with my grip. Probably fine for competition only, but I put the factory spring back in during a lunch break and didn't have any issues since.
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Good on ya for jumping in there and checking it out!
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No matter what I try I can't see the pictures. They load as a broken link.
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They look fine to me. What are you trying to view them on? If at work, some employers wifi blocks some pics.
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Home computer using Chrome, and a Chromebook.
Edit: weird, just tried to copy and paste things into Firefox and they all load fine.
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-Updated
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Please let us know how the mag release works for you this weekend. And oh, good luck in your pistol class.
rich63
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Is it possible to remove the mag release to do the clean-up work on it without having to strip other parts of the frame? Or do I need to remove those parts to get to the mag release?
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Is it possible to remove the mag release to do the clean-up work on it without having to strip other parts of the frame? Or do I need to remove those parts to get to the mag release?
Yes you can just remove the mag release pin. I would also at least remove the trigger pin. lets the trigger move forward to give you a little more space.
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Just got back from my class. The magazine is harder to release when the slide is closed because the mag spring is pushing against the bottom of the slide. When you press the mag button slowly, you can actually see the magazine raise into the frame a tiny bit before it releases. When the slide is back and there are rounds in the mag, there is zero spring pressure and the mag button is easier to press. With the lighter Glock striker safety installed, it was too light. I had the mag drop out twice during speed shooting drills. Two other shooters dropped the mag while firing too. The factory spring is going back in.
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Thanks, Earland357, for trying the lighter spring. No progress without experimentation.
Have you had any thoughts about the trigger safety, possibly trimming it some to avoid the initial catch on the frame if you don't have your trigger finger exactly perpindicular to the safety blade?
Maybe this was unique to my gun or my trigger finger, but the safety would not release cleanly for me as delivered.
Joe
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Thanks, Earland357, for trying the lighter spring. No progress without experimentation.
Have you had any thoughts about the trigger safety, possibly trimming it some to avoid the initial catch on the frame if you don't have your trigger finger exactly perpindicular to the safety blade?
Maybe this was unique to my gun or my trigger finger, but the safety would not release cleanly for me as delivered.
Joe
Mine did that too. Legally speaking, it's probably not a good idea to mes with safety parts on a gun. That said, mine "wore down from use". Not a lot, maybe the thickness of 1 or 2 human hairs. :)
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This isn't a home or self defense gun. Besides, the safety still works as intended by me. There is some liability associated with pulling the trigger normally and it getting hung, too. I was not going to leave it alone even if it were a carry gun or a self defense pistol as a primary purpose. Mine is worn now as well.
Joe
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It appears that with almost every firearm, some parts experience "accelerated wear" on certain parts... ;D My Scorpion right side safety wore all the way down to nub! 8)
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It appears that with almost every firearm, some parts experience "accelerated wear" on certain parts... ;D My Scorpion right side safety wore all the way down to nub! 8)
That was awfully convenient. I had to buy a $13 part to get mine like that. Since it is primarily a demo gun, it needed to stay factory parts.
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So I'm trying to figure out this heavy mag release issue, I notice with no magazine the release pressure isn't bad, with a mag it's almost unusable. I noticed the mag has around an 1/8th inch of play when inserted and if I push up on the magazine that the pressure is the same as if there is no mag in the gun...any one have any ideas on what's "pushing" the mag down once inserted?
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Same here. With a loaded mag and the slide in battery, I cannot drop the mag without laying the gun on its side and pressing the mag release using both thumbs! With slide locked back mag release works quite easily. Same thing with slide stop. I have to lay the gun on its side and press with 2 thumbs. I understand things might be a little tight on a new gun but they should be functional. Tried working both manually probably 100 times or so and it made no difference. Any suggestions? Going to the range tomorrow and have my fingers crossed.
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So I'm trying to figure out this heavy mag release issue, I notice with no magazine the release pressure isn't bad, with a mag it's almost unusable. I noticed the mag has around an 1/8th inch of play when inserted and if I push up on the magazine that the pressure is the same as if there is no mag in the gun...any one have any ideas on what's "pushing" the mag down once inserted?
The magazine follower is putting upward pressure on either the slide or slide lock. Explanation here:
https://youtu.be/Wfb7m--XR80?t=76 (https://youtu.be/Wfb7m--XR80?t=76)
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Thanks for posting that is very helpful and good information to have
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Jrpsaros. It seems we have the same issue with the mag release. I bought some ammo for a range trip today , loaded 1 mag, inserted and found that I have to actually lay the gun down and press as hard as I can on the mag release to remove the mag. It was pretty stiff on an empty mag , almost impossible with the full one. Saw the video on smoothing things out but this is beyond lack of smoothness.With slide locked back, its very easy, empty or full. I only have a G27 to compare it too but it seemed like the mag was very difficult to load. More difficult than the G27 which is pretty stiff. Do you have the same issue with the slide stop? Pretty much impossible to use without laying gun on the bench and pressing very hard with both thumbs. If I apply very slight rearward pull on slide it works normally. I have done probably 200 dry fires with no improvement to the slide stop and a buttload of mag releases with no improvement there either. Trigger feels heavier than my stock G27 and has a little "bump" right before the wall. It's not the little safety dingus hitting the frame as others have seen. Maybe it's normal but I did not feel it on the T&E sample I saw at CZ Customs. Anyone in AZ want to compare guns? Cleaned and lubed and no improvement at all. Not giving up on it but so far the "Improving on Perfection" is starting to wear a little thin!
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BobcatAZ yes that sounds exactly like what mines doing, I overhand power rack anyway, so I didn't notice the side release initially, but yes I cannot get it to release with a reasonable amount of force.
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Jrpsaros. I was debating whether I was going to send the gun in or take it to the range as planned. Well, just got back from the range and am happy to report, the gun was flawless! Shot 100 each of 115 and 124 grain Blazer Brass at 11 and 25 yards and the gun made me look like a close range sniper. No malfunctions, no brass to the face. Slide stop and mag release, while still a little on the stiff side, were both functional. Maybe run another couple hundred through it and see if things improve even more. Trigger was good. Still has that little bump right before the wall but the break was very crisp. Need to practice shooting from the reset more but thats me not the gun. If anyone would have told me it would improve this much from a couple hundred rounds I would have said bull. Live and learn and I am in love again!
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That's great news!
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BobcatAZ,
If the mag release is still an issue for you, follow instructions earlan357's here in this thread. You do not need to do a complete disassembly. Remove the mag release pin and trigger pin. That's it. I followed his instructions here in this thread and my mag release is now smooth and no longer an issue for me.
rich63
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May give that a shot but I would like to find a good set of punches before attempting any amateur gunsmithing. Never bought a set and was wondering if everything on CZ's is metric. I need one to try the other backstraps and someone said that pin was 2mm or 5/64". Just another thing I noticed after cleaning and reloading a mag after my range visit. If I load 15 rounds, insert mag then try to release, it's very, very stiff. If I only load 14 it's fine. I figure that's probably normal as that 15th round would normally be chambered anyway.
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That's an interesting thought.
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That's an interesting thought.
well...armoredman....a glock saved the day
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May give that a shot but I would like to find a good set of punches before attempting any amateur gunsmithing. Never bought a set and was wondering if everything on CZ's is metric. I need one to try the other backstraps and someone said that pin was 2mm or 5/64". Just another thing I noticed after cleaning and reloading a mag after my range visit. If I load 15 rounds, insert mag then try to release, it's very, very stiff. If I only load 14 it's fine. I figure that's probably normal as that 15th round would normally be chambered anyway.
With the slide closed, if you press the mag button slowly and watch the magazine baseplate, it actually moves up into the gun a tiny bit before releasing. This is due to the geometry of the mag catch. So the magazine spring is getting compressed, fighting the mag button. More ammo = more spring tension in the mag. If the slide is locked back, there's no extra resistance and the button is easy to press. I polished the top lip of the mag catch to make it smoother and it helped a lot.
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I had been smug and dumb thinking mine was working just fine until I re read - FULL magazine. So, I tried it. Yep, it's stiff as a life sentence, but I can get it to move with thumb pressure. Lacking any of the gunsmithing tools or know how, I figured if I just keep working the button back and forth it should wear in, best I can come up with, but I do know that if I have t get a loaded mag out, I can do it. Probably wore in some from range day the other day. ;)
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Maybe dumb question here:
I was polishing the mag release today as described in the video above.
After reassembly, I noticed the spring just in front of the magazine catch was bent back. I think I may have done that inadvertently, as the spring shown in the video looks straight and tight.
To confirm, the spring in front of the mag catch sits in a hole just in front of the mag well. Does the top of that spring rest against the underside of the front lip of the magazine catch? There is also a black plastic piece from the trigger assembly that sits above the same hole and behaves as if it a part of the trigger return. Cannot tell in the video.
Any guidance would be appreciated, as I think I'm going to have to replace that spring...
THX!
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I don't know, sorry, anyone else chime in?
I tried what Bobcat tried and he was right - going one round down really made the difference in ejecting a full magazine. What even funnier is how the empty mag ejects with force, and the full mag just kind of ambles on down the well.
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Maybe dumb question here:
I was polishing the mag release today as described in the video above.
After reassembly, I noticed the spring just in front of the magazine catch was bent back. I think I may have done that inadvertently, as the spring shown in the video looks straight and tight.
To confirm, the spring in front of the mag catch sits in a hole just in front of the mag well. Does the top of that spring rest against the underside of the front lip of the magazine catch? There is also a black plastic piece from the trigger assembly that sits above the same hole and behaves as if it a part of the trigger return. Cannot tell in the video.
Any guidance would be appreciated, as I think I'm going to have to replace that spring...
THX!
That spring should be straight. The entire spring should be under the mag catch lip. I think the plastic piece you're referring to is the rear of the trigger safety. If a coil of the mag return spring is above the lip, it can catch on the trigger safety and prevent the trigger from resetting.
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OK. As I feared.
That spring must have been proud when I reassembled and Ive messed it up.
Will be fun to order, as CZ-USA doesn't even have P-10 parts lists posted yet. Bet they'll tell me all parts are still going into production....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If you need a spring, take your spring and seal it in a plastic bag then take it to a locksmith shop and they should be able to fix you up. looks like a detent spring for an ignition cylinder will work.
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So I noticed that the P-10C mag release button is pretty hard to activate without adjusting your grip. It's quite rough feeling when pressed too. I studied the parts and found where I could smooth it out.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WGA5wgJ8Flk/WVZd5kZ3GEI/AAAAAAAAA3I/2xWmuZbD1HMO43FwHhgdiHBgHpaGSqiYgCLcBGAs/s1600/P-10%2Bmag.png)
The catch itself is already pretty smooth. Still, I polished the circled area with a dremel, a felt wheel, and some Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-od86xxQi5Yk/WVZd43yW_WI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/hUnRbn-SSTQbIUlFxBQyZGYHzTeD4Kf6gCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3233.jpg)
On the release button, the upper sections of the "V" slides along the bottom of the mag catch as it's pressed. Mine had a very rough edge on both sides.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sn5u2l_42iQ/WVZd5O5oh3I/AAAAAAAAA2g/Gb_yhHehBiQbiUaxpnWGgK19LQBP-fWTACLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3237.jpg)
The "V" is 90 degrees, so I used a Brownells X-Fine Ceramic stone to clean up the edges. I slide the release button back and forth a dozen or so times.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e7K9kX6e4F8/WVZd42Sw64I/AAAAAAAAA2U/cWJmrqJGRU09G--UxAiWJA_FGwbg_kYlQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3232.jpg)
Below you can see the spots that got smoothed by the ceramic stone.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-veg_D7-8poI/WVZd5A_ZziI/AAAAAAAAA2k/LGFFAry3I8QyMKTXBdhMwWfoKbho_ox2wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3238.jpg)
Now the release is smooth and much easier to activate. I can release the mag without shifting my thumb now.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2OpzJ5jV5Iw/WVZd5L7zfEI/AAAAAAAAA2c/HoT0ze-pXr0QDsbqnCyZGYzWTYeiwVCIQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3236.jpg)
---Update--
So I was talking back and forth with rich63 and I decided to see if I had any other springs that could lighten up the mag release button.
Left: P-10C mag release spring Right: Glock 19 factory firing pin safety spring
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TaVvSOJIav0/WVZd2lyifEI/AAAAAAAAA1M/Q4jJNNFyojYuaBeXAaSdJqLzqaSv1K-oQCLcBGAs/s1600/D0A1FDAD-D41D-42DA-A2C1-3E6E14541E48.jpg)
The Glock spring fits perfectly and really drops the mag release button effort, similar to my M&P .22. It feels good with an empty mag but it's almost too light with no mag or the mag loaded and the slide locked back. Without the follower pushing against the slide release, there's no extra resistance from the mag and I'm afraid I might accidentally release it while shooting or completing a reload. I'm going to leave it in though and see what happens at my pistol class this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs)
Update:
Well the Glock spring made the button easier to press. Too easy. Twice I accidentally pressed it with my support hand palm while shooting during the class. Admittedly, it was during 10 shot rapid fire strings where I got lazy with my grip. Probably fine for competition only, but I put the factory spring back in during a lunch break and didn't have any issues since.
I too was having a problem with the mag release on my P10C. I followed all the recommendations regard polishing various surfaces. This did improve the mag drop when the mag was empty, but didn't cure the problem when doing a tactical reload when the magazine still has rounds in it. I looked at what was happening to the mag when I was pressing hard on the release. I noticed the mag was being pushed up into the mag well before it finally dropped free after considerable pressure on the release. Then I looked at the shape of the piece that engages in the slot in the mag. It was clear from the shape of this piece that as the release is pressed and it rotates back and out of the mag latch slot, it pushes the mag up forcing the round in the mag to press up on the under side of the slide and thus compress the mag spring, thereby increasing the resistance to the mag release. I decided to re-profile the protrusion. If you refer to the rough sketch I have attached you can see what I did. The angles are exaggerated to illustrate the issue. For those of you that have never had this problem I can only assume that the tolerances in this piece are such that the problem only occurs when the angle is too steep.
(https://i.imgur.com/WDgk6B8.jpg)
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So I noticed that the P-10C mag release button is pretty hard to activate without adjusting your grip. It's quite rough feeling when pressed too. I studied the parts and found where I could smooth it out.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WGA5wgJ8Flk/WVZd5kZ3GEI/AAAAAAAAA3I/2xWmuZbD1HMO43FwHhgdiHBgHpaGSqiYgCLcBGAs/s1600/P-10%2Bmag.png)
The catch itself is already pretty smooth. Still, I polished the circled area with a dremel, a felt wheel, and some Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-od86xxQi5Yk/WVZd43yW_WI/AAAAAAAAA2Y/hUnRbn-SSTQbIUlFxBQyZGYHzTeD4Kf6gCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3233.jpg)
On the release button, the upper sections of the "V" slides along the bottom of the mag catch as it's pressed. Mine had a very rough edge on both sides.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Sn5u2l_42iQ/WVZd5O5oh3I/AAAAAAAAA2g/Gb_yhHehBiQbiUaxpnWGgK19LQBP-fWTACLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3237.jpg)
The "V" is 90 degrees, so I used a Brownells X-Fine Ceramic stone to clean up the edges. I slide the release button back and forth a dozen or so times.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e7K9kX6e4F8/WVZd42Sw64I/AAAAAAAAA2U/cWJmrqJGRU09G--UxAiWJA_FGwbg_kYlQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3232.jpg)
Below you can see the spots that got smoothed by the ceramic stone.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-veg_D7-8poI/WVZd5A_ZziI/AAAAAAAAA2k/LGFFAry3I8QyMKTXBdhMwWfoKbho_ox2wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3238.jpg)
Now the release is smooth and much easier to activate. I can release the mag without shifting my thumb now.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2OpzJ5jV5Iw/WVZd5L7zfEI/AAAAAAAAA2c/HoT0ze-pXr0QDsbqnCyZGYzWTYeiwVCIQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_3236.jpg)
---Update--
So I was talking back and forth with rich63 and I decided to see if I had any other springs that could lighten up the mag release button.
Left: P-10C mag release spring Right: Glock 19 factory firing pin safety spring
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TaVvSOJIav0/WVZd2lyifEI/AAAAAAAAA1M/Q4jJNNFyojYuaBeXAaSdJqLzqaSv1K-oQCLcBGAs/s1600/D0A1FDAD-D41D-42DA-A2C1-3E6E14541E48.jpg)
The Glock spring fits perfectly and really drops the mag release button effort, similar to my M&P .22. It feels good with an empty mag but it's almost too light with no mag or the mag loaded and the slide locked back. Without the follower pushing against the slide release, there's no extra resistance from the mag and I'm afraid I might accidentally release it while shooting or completing a reload. I'm going to leave it in though and see what happens at my pistol class this weekend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xQcA4F2USs)
Update:
Well the Glock spring made the button easier to press. Too easy. Twice I accidentally pressed it with my support hand palm while shooting during the class. Admittedly, it was during 10 shot rapid fire strings where I got lazy with my grip. Probably fine for competition only, but I put the factory spring back in during a lunch break and didn't have any issues since.
I too was having a problem with the mag release on my P10C. I followed all the recommendations regard polishing various surfaces. This did improve the mag drop when the mag was empty, but didn't cure the problem when doing a tactical reload when the magazine still has rounds in it. I looked at what was happening to the mag when I was pressing hard on the release. I noticed the mag was being pushed up into the mag well before it finally dropped free after considerable pressure on the release. Then I looked at the shape of the piece that engages in the slot in the mag. It was clear from the shape of this piece that as the release is pressed and it rotates back and out of the mag latch slot, it pushes the mag up forcing the round in the mag to press up on the under side of the slide and thus compress the mag spring, thereby increasing the resistance to the mag release. I decided to re-profile the protrusion. If you refer to the rough sketch I have attached you can see what I did. The angles are exaggerated to illustrate the issue. For those of you that have never had this problem I can only assume that the tolerances in this piece are such that the problem only occurs when the angle is too steep.
(https://i.imgur.com/WDgk6B8.jpg)
I recently picked up a P10C with the mag release issue and tried all the polishing and stoning before finding this particular thread. I also noticed that my mag would move up slightly as I depressed the mag release and now, after leveling the top end of the mag catch, my mag release now works very smoothly. Just an FYI that this did indeed work for my particular findings.
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The polishing is all well and good but it does nothing to address the real problem. If you've ever had a CZ75 you know about the mag brake. The tail of the P10C mag release (the part highlighted in red above that makes contact with the mag) actually acts as a mag brake. I removed minimal amounts of material several times until I got the mag to fall free. On a 75 you can take out the mag break and the mag will fall free, but it will also be very loose in the gun. I suspect if you took that tail completely off the P10C mag release the same thing would be true. As I removed material I put a gentle curved radius in the piece that touches the mag. Mags fall out like all my other guns now.
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My P-10 magazine release has broken in nicely and is not an issue for me. Staying with the stock set up on the mag release button.
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The polishing is all well and good but it does nothing to address the real problem. If you've ever had a CZ75 you know about the mag brake. The tail of the P10C mag release (the part highlighted in red above that makes contact with the mag) actually acts as a mag brake. I removed minimal amounts of material several times until I got the mag to fall free. On a 75 you can take out the mag break and the mag will fall free, but it will also be very loose in the gun. I suspect if you took that tail completely off the P10C mag release the same thing would be true. As I removed material I put a gentle curved radius in the piece that touches the mag. Mags fall out like all my other guns now.
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GLN305's re-profiling of the mag catch makes things work the way they should have when the gun left the factory. THANK YOU !
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I would think there's a reason CZ made that piece with an angle. After some wear, it wouldn't surprise me if you start seeing some unintentional mag drops under recoil or inadvertently touching the mag release.
I'm not saying it will happen but maybe something to watch out for.
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It's a matter of less than 0.010 - not worried. It's just. a matter of tolerance discrepancies.
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If CZ was smart AND bold, they would have used long paddles a la Walther. Result would have been a very successful and trouble free ambi mag release that is better and easy to train. Unfortunately, it would mean lower sales cuz people are dumb.
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No I believe that CZ is smart and knows that the Americans want the mag release just where it is. Walther had to learn that and introduced the M2 in the PPQ and PPS.
Best regards.
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No I believe that CZ is smart and knows that the Americans want the mag release just where it is. Walther had to learn that and introduced the M2 in the PPQ and PPS.
Best regards.
Like I said. People are just plain dumb.
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No I believe that CZ is smart and knows that the Americans want the mag release just where it is. Walther had to learn that and introduced the M2 in the PPQ and PPS.
Best regards.
Like I said. People are just plain dumb.
Because not everyone likes what you like they are dumb?
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No. But look at the thread. Look at the endless list of extended MRs. Most have trouble reaching and have to shift their shooting hand. Everyone can use the Walther long paddle better or at least as well and it is automatically ambi. Easy to leverage for the arthritic, etc. didn?t want to be arrogant! They are better period. It is a shame that convention wins too often.
Consider the vaunted P07. It has ONE of the best grip to MR distances in the business and a very well designed mag release itself. I have Med/Lg hands and have to make a shift of my firing hand fingers to hit the release well and consistently. I MAY opt for an extended mag release. And... this is on a well designed gun. Then a BUNCH of folks allow you to reverse the MR, but they aren't really Ambi. Only LONG fingered dudes can really optimally use most MRs. Pick up a P99 or PPQ M1s - you can train to use the MR in two mags. It is Ambi. Guys with LONG fingers can use it two ways. (Three if you count their middle finger). It is objectively a better design, and not that complex at all. No other type of MR allows more people to use it without moving their hand position. None.
I have to laugh (or cry) at 'dumb' gun reviewers who cannot "reach the paddle' with their thumb - that IS stupid.
So, no - I don't think it is dumb because I think it is better or it is to my liking. I think it is dumb for the industry not to recognize better when it is.
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I have med. hands and most mag releases require a shift in my grip to use my firing hand (rt hand) which is no big deal and consequently I have trained to drop the mag with my left thumb as well as either slingshot the slide or drop the slide catch left thumbed. Who the heck ever decided all these operations HAVE to be done one handed or one fingered? That's all a bunch of tactical crap.
I can reload and drop the slide closed as fast as I need to the way I have trained,it's no big deal. I would not own a P99 or a PPQ or any other plastic Walther. They are not my cup and that's my opinion just as you are spouting nothing but your opinion.
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No sir.
The long paddle is easier to use in addition to being faster. Just the facts. My opinion doesn?t matter.
If you prefer something slower or harder that is a preference. More power to you.
The P07 slide lock is hard to use so I release off-hand. Not good , but the other attributes let me justify this poor feature, so I work around it. It still isn?t s good feature for the average joe.
It?s OK if you hate Walther. But that paddle release kicks butt. Period.
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I too prefer the paddle release of the Walther/HK, but that's what I learned on so there's that. That said, I didn't have any trouble getting used to the American style mag release. I don't see why people struggle to adapt to the paddle.
On my P-07, I have a tendency to drop the mag when firing. Installing an extended release has helped somewhat. The P-10 release hasn't been a problem for me at all.
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Still just your opinion no matter how you try to explain it. The good old push button mag release is in no way hard for me to use. Speed is directly related to ability/skill level Period.
As far as Walther goes they are mainly striker fired pistols which I have less than zero interest in which is why as much as I like CZ's I still don't own a P10C.
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HK is a hammer gun with paddles - good stuff, only the paddle is a bit short.
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HK is a hammer gun with paddles - good stuff, only the paddle is a bit short.
Not interested in HK either and not interested in plastic as a rule. My P-07 is the lone red headed step child in my collection and while I enjoy the P-07 it could be orphaned at any time.
I'll stick with what I like and what works for ME. I've always found that making purchases based on others opinions leads too disappointment in the end.
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My intention here has nothing to do with influencing anyone's purchases - just noting particular features and their virtues or weaknesses.
Someone has made good point on another thread that CZ would have been better off to make a reversible MR that was easy to use, than a Ambi one that is hard to use.
CZ needs feeback - we may like a gun, but not all of its features. With market competition as it is, manufacturers need to listen.
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I can find things I like and don't like about ANYTHING so I find things that work best for ME and have more positives than negatives that's how I came to like CZ's so well vs other semi auto pistols. I do have others Beretta 92 FS which I like and some various 1911's Ruger .22's Sig P238. They all have things that I maybe would like differently but the REAL problem is that no one will ever design any single product that will satisfy every one. Some one will always find issue with one design or another. I'm sure CZ and others are listening but I don't see them retooling anytime soon. A few people on this forum are not going to make a difference when the rest of the world is quiet. The best any one can do is find a platform they like and work with it and fortunately for US citizens we have aftermarket support and parts availability to change things we want to personalize.
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I think CZ listened and made the P10C. They took shortcomings from Glock, SW, others and addressed some real issues. One is the Ambi mag release. XD had this years ago, and if I recall (having owned an XD 45 years ago) they are pretty good. So, CZ went after this, and seems to have at least some QC issues.
But - CZ gets kudos for stepping it up and out! Innovation and improvement are good things. I just know that executing long paddles is pretty simple and they are so easy to use. But as pointed out, Americans seem to hate on them and that is a BIG chunk of market.
Likewise the P07/09 series is a great pistol - kudos. But, if you work on them enough, and talk to CGW, there are some real QC issues in manufacturing. CZ just needs to address them. We should point out the good with the bad.
There are bad pistols with good features, and good pistols with bad features.
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As I have posted before my magazine release works just fine after a brief break-in period. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath and put some more lead down range.
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As I have posted before my magazine release works just fine after a brief break-in period. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath and put some more lead down range.
Agree.
And to be honest most of the trigger roughness goes away in 1000-2000 rounds.
Although, I have a buddy who shoots competition and has trouble with the SP-01 mag release. I told him to sit in front of the TV and press it with a dowel for thousands of times some week. We'll see.
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As I have posted before my magazine release works just fine after a brief break-in period. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath and put some more lead down range.
Your perfect gun is a sample of one. Just because yours is perfect, that doesn't mean other people don't have a legitimate issue. Repeatedly posting about your perfect gun serves little purpose.
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As I have posted before my magazine release works just fine after a brief break-in period. Not sure what all the fuss is about. Everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath and put some more lead down range.
Your perfect gun is a sample of one. Just because yours is perfect, that doesn't mean other people don't have a legitimate issue. Repeatedly posting about your perfect gun serves little purpose.
Everyone's gun is a sample of one. There is no need to crawl all over each other as if only one of you is correct.
Cremaley, your reply was out of character for this place and, so, was deleted. Consider this a friendly reminder. Let's not let that happen again, k?
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Polished said parts last night. It has made SOME difference.
If I had extra springs and parts I'd like to snip a coil as well as modify the geometry.
As it stands it's "okay". I wish they used paddles like H&K did.
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Have you checked the magazine release spring isn't bent? That's what was wrong with mine and pressing the release button felt like it was binding up. Out of several p10 I've handled, a lot of them felt exactly like mine. CZ installed a new spring and it's fine now.
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I only have 300 rounds thru my P-10 C and my slide lock has loosened up nicely. It was very, very difficult to release at first. Now no problem.
I did polish up the mag release when I first got it and it works great.
The only issue I've had so far is a one time failure to lock the slide back after emptying a magazine (user error likely). I've only shot relatively cheap ammo, 4 different brands, including steel casing. Eats it all.
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Just an FYI, with the optics ready guns on the horizon, CZ did take feedback from first gen owners and changed the mag release going forward. It's no longer ambidextrous but it is swappable. They say it's a geometry change but I'm pretty sure it's more than that if you lose ambi. Anyway, thought anyone coming across this thread in the future would like to know this won't be an issue for the OR guns made in the US.
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Well the magazines are the issue. I was thinking about buying a new p10 but my old p10 mags won't work with it.
Bad decision by CZ.
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For me it was a toss up between the Sig and the CZ P-10C. Purchased the CZ, magazine release was very hard with full mag and even empty mag. Sent back to the factory twice for correction. Second time a note indicating that it was checked by more than one gun smith and corrected. Still hard to release, not satisfied with fix and not satisfied with the recommendation to use a Glock Spring especially if it was a design defect (my opinion). If the fix is a Glock spring than I would expect a CZ fix free of charge. Will be looking at other manufacturer options for trade.
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For me it was a toss up between the Sig and the CZ P-10C. Purchased the CZ, magazine release was very hard with full mag and even empty mag. Sent back to the factory twice for correction. Second time a note indicating that it was checked by more than one gun smith and corrected. Still hard to release, not satisfied with fix and not satisfied with the recommendation to use a Glock Spring especially if it was a design defect (my opinion). If the fix is a Glock spring than I would expect a CZ fix free of charge. Will be looking at other manufacturer options for trade.
How?s your trigger and post a photo of your factory target.
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On my P10c it's the mag itself.
When I got the gun I loaded one mag with SD ammo and it sits in my safe that way. The other mag has been used to shoot 1000's of rounds at my home range.
When I first read this thread, I went back and tried both mags. The mag that's only been inserted 3 times is very hard to release, and the feel of the release action is very rough. It almost takes 2 hands. The commonly used range mag is butter smooth.
That's all I know. ;)