The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: briang2ad on October 22, 2017, 04:18:09 PM
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As some might remember, I got a P07 this past year, yet despite polishing the crap out of the internals, and installing a CGW sear spring, it still stacks like crazy halfway through the pull, etc. In objective language - it sucks. Especially compared to my SP 2022 (which is the definition of smooth and light OTB). So, recently, I thought I might just ditch it and get a PX4 Storm and get something with a good trigger OTB. However, I thought I'd give it one more chance at the range up against my SP2022 and P99 - both great guns.
Low and behold. I shoot it about as well in DA, and at 15 yards, because the sights are so well regulated, I was a tad better with the P07. Trigger still has that 'sucky' feel, but I THINK, because it is a shorter pull, if you do your work, it keeps you from driving the muzzle down. (A typical problem shooting in DA). My eyes are also going from age, so the nice big white dot front makes a difference. So... I might keep it, and dump some CGW parts in and go from there. I figure that if it smooths a drops a bit in weight, it might be very good. It is pretty decent in follow up even now. So, in all, I am pleasantly surprised, and have learned some thing more about triggers.
Also, CZ Custom is usually out of Schlitz, so is there anywhere else to get the slim Tritium front sight with gold outline?
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Sear spring does basically nothing for double action. And while polishing helps a lot - you didn?t touch the two HUGEST factors in a better 07/09 DA pull. You didn?t adress the trigger bar spring, nor did you go down on the main spring weight.
Go down to a 15lb main with a CGW ext. firing pin & reduced power fp spring, reduced power trigger return spring, and bend the trigger bar spring down so that it?s just at the bottom of the decocker lever hole.
Then let us know if your DA still sucks.
And since I can see the future - it won?t. ;)
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??????lol yep
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Sear spring does basically nothing for double action. And while polishing helps a lot - you didn?t touch the two HUGEST factors in a better 07/09 DA pull. You didn?t adress the trigger bar spring, nor did you go down on the main spring weight.
Go down to a 15lb main with a CGW ext. firing pin & reduced power fp spring, reduced power trigger return spring, and bend the trigger bar spring down so that it?s just at the bottom of the decocker lever hole.
Then let us know if your DA still sucks.
And since I can see the future - it won?t. ;)
I'll add to that, and ask if you did the suggested stoning and polishing of the left side of the hammer and the left side of the frame where the hammer rubs. That's going to change the pull halfway through.
I put a thread in the smoothing and polishing section about just such a procedure.
Empty all of the ammunition out of the gun then slowly pull the trigger in da and take a look at the left side of the hammer how it rubs the frame and then pull it again slowly with your eyes closed and you'll feel it big time.
And that's all I've got to say about that.
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I should not have mentioned the sear spring. I know all that - I just thought polishing the snot out of it (even DOCs left side of the hammer job), would fix it.
But again, on the plus side, I'll likely keep her and work it further.
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Do all that "raining brass" suggested you will be amazed.
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My P-07 has a CGW hammer and CGW DA roller with an 18lb hammer spring and it's smooth as butter with no stack in DA and super crisp and clean in SA and I never polish parts as I prefer too let them develop their own wear patterns.
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I agree with what's already been said. Just a CGW self defense spring kit will will make a huge difference. The competition kit might even be better. $24 is a small investment.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/spgk79-yellow-self-defense-hammer-spring/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/97910-gold-hammer-spring-and-blue-hammer-spring/
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Going to a 15# mainspring made a huge difference in my P-07s... and I found that the CGW roller smoothed things out a good bit too.
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Not to hijack the thread, but for those who have gone to the 15# spring instead of the 18#, is there a noticeable difference in trigger pull. And I know SHE says the 18# for reliable primer strikes, are you also running the extended firing pin (I don't have that yet, next plan is the short reset kit) or do you have the stock firing pin and are you having any issues with range/practice ammo?
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Yes, there?s a big difference in trigger pull from 18lb to 15lb. I run 15lb in every 07/09 I own with CGW extended firing pin and reduced power fp spring, including my carry 07. Have never, ever had light strike issues with a huge assortment of ammo. *I don?t shoot steel cased ammo so I can?t speak on those primers.
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You need to replace the hammer and polish the sear edge without reshaping it or "unsquaring" the edge, that is how you will get rid of the wall
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Yes, there?s a big difference in trigger pull from 18lb to 15lb. I run 15lb in every 07/09 I own with CGW extended firing pin and reduced power fp spring, including my carry 07. Have never, ever had light strike issues with a huge assortment of ammo. *I don?t shoot steel cased ammo so I can?t speak on those primers.
Same here... I've seen zero problems out of the 15# spring with any of the ammo I shoot.
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Yes, there?s a big difference in trigger pull from 18lb to 15lb. I run 15lb in every 07/09 I own with CGW extended firing pin and reduced power fp spring, including my carry 07. Have never, ever had light strike issues with a huge assortment of ammo. *I don?t shoot steel cased ammo so I can?t speak on those primers.
Same here... I've seen zero problems out of the 15# spring with any of the ammo I shoot.
Have you run ANY 'hard primer' ammo? I like to run Tula and Wolf - it tests a gun lighting all primers, and it frankly is good range ammo in 9mm.
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Are some of the Omega triggers that bad OOTB? I have a hammer spring, sanded down FP block plunger, took some tension of the trigger bar support spring; my trigger is insanely light and crisp. No polishing.... 3000-4000 round mind you, but it was awesome OOTB on day one.
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Are some of the Omega triggers that bad OOTB? I have a hammer spring, sanded down FP block plunger, took some tension of the trigger bar support spring; my trigger is insanely light and crisp. No polishing.... 3000-4000 round mind you, but it was awesome OOTB on day one.
Sounds like you?re talking about the SA pull. We?re talking about the DA pull. Frankly - all Imegas have a horrendous DA pull out the box. Lol
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Yes, there?s a big difference in trigger pull from 18lb to 15lb. I run 15lb in every 07/09 I own with CGW extended firing pin and reduced power fp spring, including my carry 07. Have never, ever had light strike issues with a huge assortment of ammo. *I don?t shoot steel cased ammo so I can?t speak on those primers.
Same here... I've seen zero problems out of the 15# spring with any of the ammo I shoot.
Have you run ANY 'hard primer' ammo? I like to run Tula and Wolf - it tests a gun lighting all primers, and it frankly is good range ammo in 9mm.
I knew you would ask that... ;-)
No, these days I stick to range ammo that closely approximates what I carry (Speer Lawman) but I have run a variety of different things through over the past year or so (Winchester NATO, WWB, Federal Target, American Eagle, Magtech, Aguila, Freedom Reman, Federal HST2, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger RA9T, Underwood Bonded, Barnes DPX and I think some S&B...)
No steel cased stuff, though.
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My P07 is stock inside (RMR/slide machining, BUIS, etc. but all internals are original). SA pull is 3&1/4 lbs. and once the firing pin block is lifted and the trigger stops - the next little movement drops the hammer. DA is about 8.5 lbs. but I never use it (except to test to see how much it is).
My P09 is almost as good. All internal parts are original. SA is 3&3/4 lbs. and DA is about 8&3/4 lbs. It has just a tiny bit of creep between the firing pin block lifted out of the way spot and the hammer release.
My P09 .40 does not have a trigger in the same class with the first two.
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CGW SR Kit on the way, and I have both hammer springs coming.
We'll see how it goes. According to CGW, the MIM parts in the gun may last, but are not always spec'd right and lead to problems in trigger action. Obviously, most are pretty good OTB, and I have felt better ones. I got a dud.
Point to the OP though is that even with a sucky pull, the P07 still shoots pretty darn well. I think it is the grip angle, beavertail, etc. Also notice that the support hand gets plenty of contact on the side of the frame. The grip is slim, and your support hand gets more control. It is ideally suited for two handed shooting with a strong support hand.
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So, a longer term follow up on my FIRST P07 which had an atrocious trigger. Remember - it stacked miserably, it was EXTREMELY gritty, and it felt like it was well over 15 LBS. It was felling much better after a trip to CZ to replace the hammer and disconnector. It had been polished (trigger bar - mostly the side). With several hundred more rounds, it was getting very good.
Friday I took it down to put in the SR kit. I 'found' the 7th page of the sticky thread, and so I paid special attention to the REAR of the trigger bar. I also polished most of the pins (trigger, sear, hammer). Now, as I put it together, I was amazed. No stacking and smooth as butter. Admittedly I an running a 15 LB spring, but so far it is good with Tula/Wolf primers so it is GTG.
So... what started out as a rotten trigger, is now amazing - it CAN be done.
I'm starting to feel confident that almost any crappy P series trigger can be made very good to excellent.
Unrelated, but I might understand WHY CZ put the huge (but hard to reach) SS/SR on these guns. To make the decocker a convertible safety, the lever had to rotate down and be forward, unlike the P01. This makes it VERY hard for those without orangutan thumbs to activate the SR. So... you do it with the weak had thumb right after slamming the mag in the gun. Its a tad slower than an easy to reach SR, but it is MUCH better than shifting the grip to get at around the decocker and activating the lever. By being LARGE, it is easy to hit with the ff-hand thumb at speed.
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So... you do it with the weak had thumb right after slamming the mag in the gun. Its a tad slower than an easy to reach SR, but it is MUCH better than shifting the grip to get at around the decocker and activating the lever. By being LARGE, it is easy to hit with the ff-hand thumb at speed.
That is the technique I?ve adopted and now use on all pistols. I really don?t like shifting the gun in my strong hand for any reason if it can be helped... and I have larger hands and long fingers.
With a little practice this technique works really well :)
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I have plenty issues with my 15lb P07s with Winchester and S&B primers. No issues with my 12lb spring in my P09.
There's a possibility I got a spring mixed up, but everything should be identical
Edit - all have the extended firing pin and spring. And the rp-trs
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The 15 lb hammer spring is meant to be used ONLY with CGW's Extended Firing Pin and Firing pin spring.
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The 15 lb hammer spring is meant to be used ONLY with CGW's Extended Firing Pin and Firing pin spring.
Generally true! and.. CGW recommends the 15 for competition - not defense. But, if I have a gun that runs Wolf/Tula fine, i KNOW it will be fine with any defensive ammo.
I am beginning to find out that Winchester is a 'hard primer' round also.
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
YUP - particularly for folks coming over from SIGs or Berettas who don't appreciate the whole 'camming' thing.
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
Check on the hammer.
Do you think the roller helped you at all?
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
Check on the hammer.
Do you think the roller helped you at all?
Roller not going to do anyhting for break.
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Yes, but will it do anything for smoothness?
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Yes, but will it do antrying for smoothness?
Doubt you'd feel any difference. The main reason behind the CGW roller is to correct DA timing issues. Smoothing the DA is something I believe you will only feel if you've had some sort of significant issues with the OEM roller. At least that has been my experience with all the 07's and 09's I've worked on. The hugest difference you can make for smoothing the pull is polishing the trigger bar and relieving some tension from the trigger bar spring. We also polish the hammer strut on our Battle Series 07/09 packages which we feel does a lot for a smooth DA as well.
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Also the CGW roller is meant for CERTAIN sizes - and they do not make a smaller one YET. My rollers all seem to measure .214 or less. Dave told me just polish mine and not to worry. So, I put mine on a brass punch and hit it at speed with a felt wheel to smooth and even them out. Works nicely.
But as has been said - SA go hammer. DA - polish trigger bar, hammer strut, and TB spring tuning (and I polish this too). When you want it lighter, look into CGW kits: extended FP, etc.
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I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
Check on the hammer.
Do you think the roller helped you at all?
The upgraded roller helps to smooth out the DA.
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I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
Check on the hammer.
Do you think the roller helped you at all?
The upgraded roller helps to smooth out the DA.
And... I believe CGW is planning for smaller rollers in the future for us!
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Any recommendations on smoothing and creating a better break without lightening any of the pulls? I know about the rigger bar and bending the spring (pull a ton of dry fire),;but what else can be done.
CGW race hammer is the one and only part that will give a cleaner break.
I think the addition of the CGW hammer is the single best upgrade for any CZ pistol. I have one in my P-07 as well as my 75 variants and they are outstanding parts. Removes all the camming and provides a sweet clean break.
Check on the hammer.
Do you think the roller helped you at all?
I added the .220 roller to my P-07 to correct timing/hammer drop to half cock after the pistol was well broken in at about 2500 rnds. I noticed no difference in the DA/SA but my example was pretty darn smooth right out of the box.