The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: Moken on November 05, 2017, 10:12:42 AM
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I've not even held a SAR pistol. I am quite pleased with my three Canik. But I have the disease and wondering if the SAR is unequal or better footing with Canik. I like the look of the stainless SAR pistol.
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I've not even held a SAR pistol. I am quite pleased with my three Canik. But I have the disease and wondering if the SAR is unequal or better footing with Canik. I like the look of the stainless SAR pistol.
IMO the quality (fit & finish) is comparable. I haven't heard of near as many issues with SAR pistols as with the Canik TP 9s, but then again I don't think there are many SAR owners running their guns in competition.
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Have there been issues with the Canik TP-9s?
My 2 have been flawless so far.
Is there something I should be watching for?
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Have there been issues with the Canik TP-9s?
My 2 have been flawless so far.
Is there something I should be watching for?
Nothing that Century's customer service isn't happy to help with. The most common problem I see are cycling issues/FTF/FTE from new owners. Locking the slide back for a few days or switching to 124gr. or 147gr. ammo to break in usually takes care of those.
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Have there been issues with the Canik TP-9s?
My 2 have been flawless so far.
Is there something I should be watching for?
Nothing that Century's customer service isn't happy to help with. The most common problem I see are cycling issues/FTF/FTE from new owners. Locking the slide back for a few days or switching to 124gr. or 147gr. ammo to break in usually takes care of those.
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Thanks.
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Have there been issues with the Canik TP-9s?
My 2 have been flawless so far.
Is there something I should be watching for?
Nothing that Century's customer service isn't happy to help with. The most common problem I see are cycling issues/FTF/FTE from new owners. Locking the slide back for a few days or switching to 124gr. or 147gr. ammo to break in usually takes care of those.
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Thanks.
You're welcome :) If you're on FB look into the Canik Fanatik group to keep up with current events, they're also giving away a TP9SA as part of a holiday package.
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I'm still leaning towards getting a TP-9SFx.... that I walked into the gun store to purchase - when I walked out with my SP-01Tac.
It's still there waiting for me.
But then again, I'm still thinking about a TS Orange too.
Decisions decisions decisions.
I want it all - NOW! LOL
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Have there been issues with the Canik TP-9s?
My 2 have been flawless so far.
Is there something I should be watching for?
Nothing that Century's customer service isn't happy to help with. The most common problem I see are cycling issues/FTF/FTE from new owners. Locking the slide back for a few days or switching to 124gr. or 147gr. ammo to break in usually takes care of those.
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Thanks.
You're welcome :) If you're on FB look into the Canik Fanatik group to keep up with current events, they're also giving away a TP9SA as part of a holiday package.
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I should clarify, the issues I mentioned are with TP series striker fired pistols, not clones.
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I'm still leaning towards getting a TP-9SFx.... that I walked into the gun store to purchase - when I walked out with my SP-01Tac.
It's still there waiting for me.
But then again, I'm still thinking about a TS Orange too.
Decisions decisions decisions.
I want it all - NOW! LOL
lol don't we all! SAR-USA is just now getting their imports to distributors and I'm jonesing pretty bad, I want a SAR 9 so bad I can taste it....
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I have both brands. The Sar seems to be a little below the Canik in my opinion but that is just my opinion.
My Sar and Canik pistols have been very good so far.
I think the Witness P series is a very good brand/model also.
I have not really had any problems yet with them except for the Sar, the trigger pin initially tried to walk out the right side of the pistol and the slide lock/take down pin shaft has loosened up just a little.
The trigger pin problem was taken care of by the use of green Loctite, may have to get a new slide lock/take down pin.
As for accuracy and function they perform on level with my CZs.
Sar B6P, Witness P S, Canik C-100 and a SF Elite, all in 9mm.
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I have a Canik C-100 and a SAR K2-45. Both have been very good with the C-100 needs a little trigger work. The SAR .45 has a great trigger right out of the box but needed some fluff and buff and break in for it to feed reliably. The grip is full, 14 rounds of .45, but similar feel to a CZ 75 maybe a CZ97 but I have not handled a CZ 97 yet. I only wish I had picked up a spare K2-45.
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I have one of each, and am quite pleased with both of them. Since one is polymer, and the other is all steel, it's more like apples and oranges than Ford and Chevy. I have no complaint with either one, and would buy either one over again.
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The SAR you mentioned with the chrome slide is model number 400425 with a 13 round capacity. Not sure how readily available that firearm may be at the present. You might have a hard time locating one right now as EAA may no longer be the importer of the SAR line. There may be a distributor in Texas who is taking over that role.
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While EAA is no long importing Sarsilmaz, some retailers may still have stock imported through them but I haven't seen a B6P compact in over a year, they sold out
fast.
TR Imports is no longer importing Sarsilmaz but again, some retailers probably have TR Imports in stock.
SAR-USA is now the sole importer of Sarsilmaz handguns. They have begun shipping out stock to Sports South Distributors, with the first arriving to be:
B6P in both black & stainless
B6P compact in both black & stainless
SAR 9 in both black & stainless
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I was looking at the 9mm stainless on theshootingstore.com.TR imports is selling them.
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https://www.theshootingstore.com/single-product?product_id=215378&ref=shop
This is the one I noticed.
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Two importers dropping Sarsilmaz in short order begs the question, why? I was in contact with EAA in praise of my B6P, and they were very complimentary of my comments, but soon after that dropped them. TR carried them for less than a year. Is it just the unreasoning prejudice against Turkish guns? Or is there something we don't know? As I have said, I am well pleased with my B6P, so I don't think it has much to do with product quality.
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Two importers dropping Sarsilmaz in short order begs the question, why? I was in contact with EAA in praise of my B6P, and they were very complimentary of my comments, but soon after that dropped them. TR carried them for less than a year. Is it just the unreasoning prejudice against Turkish guns? Or is there something we don't know? As I have said, I am well pleased with my B6P, so I don't think it has much to do with product quality.
I'm inclined to believe you've got it backwards. Sarsilmaz and EAA seem to have been on rocky terms for the past couple of years, with the break finally coming this year. I'm almost certain that TR Imports was meant (by Sarsilmaz) to only be an interim importer while they got things ironed out for what they were really after: an importer who understood what they wanted and could offer to the US market. SAR-USA is an offshoot of UTAS-USA, a Turkish company primarily concerned with tactical shotguns and weapons designs.
One thing I'm hopeful for is that unlike EAA, with SAR-USA we may finally be able to get parts for our SAR handguns ;D
If/when I find out anything more I'll be sure to post up either here or in a new post.
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Actually, that makes sense. EAA wouldn't hold with them long enough for SAR to get their distribution network in place. But really, I got profuse thanks and some really cool promo items for my comments. Maybe they were just trying to get rid of the promo materials LOL Well, they still promote Sarsilmaz and not EAA.
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Looks like I should stay w Canik for now. Tristar seems serious in their support.
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I haven't needed service from Tristar, but have contacted customer relations several times and was pretty impressed with the friendly, attentive representatives. If SAR is launching their own distribution, I would bet they are going to pay particular attention to customer service, at least in the short term, and once a habit is initiated, it usually sticks. I would be encouraged.
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https://www.theshootingstore.com/single-product?product_id=215378&ref=shop
This is the one I noticed.
I have this model since July and run about 1000 rounds with no single failure.
I'm very pleased with Sarsilmaz Mega, it has very light SA trigger and pistol fits my hand like a glove.
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Thinking about service - I suppose most important parts are interchangeable with Witness small frame (for example slide lock, recoil springs...).
So, if I need to replace them - I can order from EAA site. It would be great if Sarsilmaz spare parts were officially available here in US.
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I understand Cajun Gun Works has fair parts support for Tristar/Canik, but I am not sure about SAR. I expect with SAR opening their own US distribution, you will see improved parts support for them as well. SOME CZ and SOME Witness parts are interchangeable between SAR's and Tristars, but it is anything but a safe bet.
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Thinking about service - I suppose most important parts are interchangeable with Witness small frame (for example slide lock, recoil springs...).
So, if I need to replace them - I can order from EAA site. It would be great if Sarsilmaz spare parts were officially available here in US.
thanks for the input. It is a sweet looking pistol.
Does it use common CZ magazines?
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I use CZ 75B mags in my Sar B6P and Witness P S 9mm pistols and they work well. Also use the Mec-Gar CZ mags.
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Thinking about service - I suppose most important parts are interchangeable with Witness small frame (for example slide lock, recoil springs...).
So, if I need to replace them - I can order from EAA site. It would be great if Sarsilmaz spare parts were officially available here in US.
Unfortunately that's not the case. While some parts might be comparable, EAA will want the serial number from a Witness pistol 'to ensure compatibility'. Pretty sure they won't sell Witness parts for installation in other mfg.'s pistols.
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IMO SAR is now where Canik was years ago. They must have gone through a half dozen distributors in the first few years. Have a Canik 50 from the first distributor that was around for something like 4 months. No problems so far and very well built gun. Have a SAR 45 from early days also and same quality and also no problems so far. Have not fired near as many rounds through the SAR 45 as I have with the 9mm Canik. The 50 is basically a PCR with a safety. Alloy frame and this one is done in hard chrome and my usual carry. Although I do have an IWB holster for the SAR its a bit heavy even though I don't usually mind heavy and have carried 1911 without weight problems.
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I would call it a draw as far as product quality is concerned. Both are excellent!
I have three Sarsilmaz Pistols and two Canik made Pistols. My Canik made Pistols are the original TP9 and a TriStar T-120. My Sarsilmaz Pistols are the B6P, K2P< and K2-45.
All of them continue to provide excellent service. My Canik TP9 is a favorite Carry and Home Defense Pistol and I used to carry my SAR K2P often. I love shooting my TriStar/Canik T-120 in IPSC Matches.
The SAR B6P has been a favorite Range beater and has often been lent to Basic Pistol Course Students, whose Pistols may have broken or just need something to shoot, if they want something more potent then my .22LR Ruger Mk II.
As for a current Importer, SAR USA will eventually be getting it's operation going, carrying the full line of Sarsilmaz Firearms. http://www.sarusa.com/
From what I have read, TriStar Customer Service has been excellent. Have not needed any as yet.
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I agree with what's already been said they are both great imo. I have several caniks (t100, p100, t120, p120, s120, shark fc, tp9sa) and a couple SARs (b6p and k245) and all are good solid pistols with only a couple issues with the finish on the t100. I would have one of the SAR mega in stainless (aka previously imported SAR b6 hawk) but I was kind of waiting for them to get under 400.
My thoughts on the SAR/EAA break is that the SAR pistols were going to (or already were) steal sales away from the witness line so EAA only imported the SAR pistols that were a little different than the witness line. For instance the b6p and the witness ps are almost identical other than the accessory rail on the witness. Anyway, as others mentioned SAR probably wants to bring in their entire line and EAA didn't. Good for SAR to try to do it on their own, I wish them success. I could see them doing very well with their entire line available here.
The B6P is one of my favorite CZ75 type pistols and I'd be hard pressed to get rid of it over some, if not most, of my caniks. Take that for what it's worth.
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Some really great input. I to hope SAR makes a good go of it. Its good to have choice. But not enough time or gun money!!!! lolol
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I agree with darink300zx. The only reason I bought my P100 is I wanted an all steel compact carry. I was already familiar with Canik, so I had no problem buying one. On the other hand, I was mightily impressed with my B6P. If I could have gotten an all steel SAR compact at an equivalent price, that would have been my preference. I, too think the entire SAR line up will succeed here. Both SAR and Canik are manufactured in NATO certified facilities. In my opinion that speaks volumes for quality control, and the fit and finish on my two examples exceeds that specification. Adding SAR to the mix will increase competition, and ensure that prices stay at an affordable, competitive level for some time to come. I think EAA may come to regret letting the SAR line go.
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I just browsed their Web site. It doesn't look like some second rate plant. It gives me confidence in both brands.
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Is the B6 a CZ clone or something else?
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Is the B6 a CZ clone or something else?
B6 is almost indistinguishable from a CZ75B. Parts aren't quite interchangeable, but the performance is excellent. I have never experienced a malfunction, and it is more than acceptably accurate at 10 yards. It's almost as if you point your finger and a hole appears right where you wanted it. It is my "goto" range gun.
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Very interesting comparison between SAR MEGA and Canik L120. However, to be fair they should compare with S120.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdh7rsSkWEw
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Very interesting comparison between SAR MEGA and Canik L120. However, to be fair they should compare with S120.
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Excellent video. They were discussing the recoil difference, and missed the obvious. The SAR Mega is an all steel gun, and weighs about 6oz more than the alloy framed L120. The Mega is the successor to the B6 (the B6 models apparently are now all polymer). This video is great for the closeup view of firing. You will note the ridiculously low amount of muzzle flip, leading to a rapid recovery for a second shot. I suspect the reason the shooter was pulling double taps on the Mega is because he is used to shooting a poly or alloy frame pistol, and was not sufficiently recovering the extra frame weight before firing the second shot. This is just a matter of getting used to the gun. One thing they didn't try, but which I found is, my 17 round SAR mag feeds and fires flawlessly in my 15 round Tristar.
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My Sar B6P shoots like my Witness P S, accurate, also my Canik SF Elite.
I have found that the take down lever/slide catch lever interchange between the Witness and Sar perfectly.
Still lite on parts and accessories for Sar, Canik and Witness but Mec-Gar has mags for all.
Inexpensive pistols right now but I expect the prices to go up if they go more main stream.
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Is the B6 a CZ clone or something else?
If I were to call it a clone it's more a clone of the Tanfoglio design. I'm not a gunsmith, but I'd bet the internal parts interchangeability would be much more so with the witness PS than with the CZ75. The safety on it works just like a witness, which is different than the CZ75. Without pulling my b6p out of the safe and looking to be sure, I think it also has the shorter mainspring setup of the witness instead of the more traditional CZ75 design.
I remember seeing that video Rcher posted a few weeks back. It's interesting but I agree, not a good comparison due to the different weight frames and all.
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Wasn't Sarsilmaz a contractor for Tanfoglio at one time?
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Very good video. Now I'm getting more tempted!!!!!That stainless MEGA
model has my eye!
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Wasn't Sarsilmaz a contractor for Tanfoglio at one time?
Yes! Tanfoglio had Sarsilmaz doing production and Customer Service work for that area of the World for awhile and many Tanfoglio parts will still interchange on many Sarsilmaz Pistols.
About three or four years later, Sarsilmaz decided not to renew the Partnership and came out with versions of their own, but still using the same basic designs.
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I tell ya, I'm nothing short of impressed with the Turks gun business.
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Another nice video from these guys, more detailed analysis of MEGA, magazines compatibility, SA/DA trigger review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9KRRXq3Ew
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Well any SAR will have to wait, I ordered another AR last night. Shame on me........................
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EAA had tons of complaints about lack of parts, slow service, high prices, etc., etc., etc. I think SAR values their reputation as a military arms provider too highly to put up with that behavior for too long. I'm hopeful that now that they have their own US branch they will be more readily available and support and parts will be more reasonable and accessible. My K2-45 is an all around excellent weapon with fit & finish that is top notch and accuracy out of the box that many other makers would envy IMHO. Soft shooting, very nice trigger, and 14 rounds in a solid frame. Great first impression from SAR for me.
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FWIW my Canik L-120 has been absolutely rock solid through thousands of rounds, as well as quite accurate. I have never been able to get my K2P dialed in and have basically given up on it.
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If it makes you feel any better, a reminder that outside of the US the designation for the K2P is CM9 (Combat Master 9). It's a combat pistol and was never meant to deliver target performance.
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I would say compare the plastic. Look at a Canik poly gun and a SAR like the CM 9 Gen 2. Just watched a Mrgunsngear vid where he shows a half circle gouge from letting his pistol hit a 9mm brass case. WOW. Don't think this would happen with a CZ P07/09 - or maybe a TP9/Canik. I seriously doubt that SAR is using a proper glass filled polymer, like other manufacturers. Feel the front end. As I've pointed out before, the front end is soft and flexible - it has a TON of give when you squeeze it. No other polymer gun made does this.
Can it be a good/decent car gun? - sure. But it doesn't compare in quality build to a CZ. Not trashing the gun (which has a VERY smooth DA pull OTB that shames CZ) - just pointing out what most reviewers miss.
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I would say compare the plastic. Look at a Canik poly gun and a SAR like the CM 9 Gen 2. Just watched a Mrgunsngear vid where he shows a half circle gouge from letting his pistol hit a 9mm brass case. WOW. Don't think this would happen with a CZ P07/09 - or maybe a TP9/Canik. I seriously doubt that SAR is using a proper glass filled polymer, like other manufacturers. Feel the front end. As I've pointed out before, the front end is soft and flexible - it has a TON of give when you squeeze it. No other polymer gun made does this.
Can it be a good/decent car gun? - sure. But it doesn't compare in quality build to a CZ. Not trashing the gun (which has a VERY smooth DA pull OTB that shames CZ) - just pointing out what most reviewers miss.
As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.
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I like metal.....
I have lots of polymer in my arsenal, but I like metal best.
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As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.
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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc. They are ALL quite solid, not brittle, etc. And they are that way for a reason. There is something wrong with a pistol that flexes that much and brass cuts into it being dropped onto it.
Again, you may get plenty of use out of it as a plinker - fine. I just don't trust the frame.
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After a couple thousand rounds, I have no issue with my B6P, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it, and in fact, have. How about that Glock that got cut in half when it got caught in the cop's seat? Polymer is what it is - plastic. As long as you don't try to treat it like steel, you're OK. I too, prefer an "all metal gun" for carry, but I don't trust aluminum alloy. I would carry a "plastic gun" first. That's my opinion... it works for me. Yours may be different, for different reasons. That's why my EDC is ALL STEEL. That's my choice, and it too works for ME, your mileage may vary. Ultimately YOU are the one responsible for YOUR choices. After learning as much as you can, choose what YOU feel is best for your circumstances and likeliest situations.
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As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.
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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.
Glocks are the industry standard when it comes to polymer guns and they are not glass fiber reinforced.
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After a couple thousand rounds, I have no issue with my B6P, and wouldn't hesitate to carry it, and in fact, have. How about that Glock that got cut in half when it got caught in the cop's seat? Polymer is what it is - plastic. As long as you don't try to treat it like steel, you're OK. I too, prefer an "all metal gun" for carry, but I don't trust aluminum alloy. I would carry a "plastic gun" first. That's my opinion... it works for me. Yours may be different, for different reasons. That's why my EDC is ALL STEEL. That's my choice, and it too works for ME, your mileage may vary. Ultimately YOU are the one responsible for YOUR choices. After learning as much as you can, choose what YOU feel is best for your circumstances and likeliest situations.
I do prefer ALL STEEL too, but what's wrong with aluminum alloy? Beretta 92FS frame is aluminum alloy, but I never heard about any problems. It's not a carry gun for many people because of its size, but it has proof as the most reliable service/duty gun for last 30 years.
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My aluminum P-85 Ruger has been my everyday carry gun for over 30 years....
Somewhere between 45k and 50k rounds in that time.
It had FTE problems at 40K - that was an extractor spring, and that's it.
Shot it yesterday, cleaned it today.
Goes to work with me tomorrow.
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I saw a study years ago, conducted by the military on frame material longevity. Steel frames had the highest longevity, polymer next and in last place was aluminum alloy. I don't remember the guns tested except that the steel frame was a 1911. Neither do I remember the exact round count, but steel frames were in the neighborhood of 500,000, polymer frames were around 300,000, and aluminum frames were less than 100,000. Now, I know that 100,000 rounds is a lot and almost no one will wear out an aluminum alloy frame, but there is another way of looking at those figures... An alloy frame is 5 times more likely to break than a steel frame, and three times more likely to break than a polymer frame. Aluminum is strong, but also hard, therefore brittle. The most likely failure mode for aluminum is a cracked frame. So, since I can no longer find the source study, you can consider this apocryphal, but this is the basis of my reasoning.
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I figured that if the P-85 ever did quit firing - I could use it for a hammer and build another house. ;)
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As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.
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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.
Glocks are the industry standard when it comes to polymer guns and they are not glass fiber reinforced.
Likely misleading.
1) Glock is quite secretive of their materials and process. Most of their employees never see how parts are made. It seems that industry savvy people believe that they use either glass reinforced polymer OR glass reinforced nylon.
2) Pick up any Glock (or other plastic gun listed and more, and squeeze the end between your fingers. Then do it to your CM 9 Gen 2. The 'industry standard feels strong and rigid. The CM9 feels like a cheap plastic toy.
3) Watch the explanation of MrGunsngear and how the OTHER part of the frame was dented easily by a brass casing.
Thus, it makes me believe that the CM 9 has some inferior plastic being used.
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3) Watch the explanation of MrGunsngear and how the OTHER part of the frame was dented easily by a brass casing.
Thus, it makes me believe that the CM 9 has some inferior plastic being used.
After reading your comments, I went and watched the video. I am amazed that in an overall, very positive review of this gun your takeaway was a single incident where the reviewer admitted the problem was his own "gun abuse"... my takeaway was don't do dumb stuff.
MrGunsngear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONroTRiyN00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONroTRiyN00)
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Mrgunsngear is a superb reviewer and I respect him. Yes, generally a positive review, but you drop a gun on a brass cartridge and it gouges the frame? It verified my handling which showed the plastic on this gun is like none other.
My real point is for newbies who want a bargain gun, and likely this will be it for some time. It will have to be their SHTF, carry, everything gun, and I think they should steer clear. Spend a bit more and get a P07.
If you want to use this for a fun gun at the range, car gun - have fun! Likely it will serve you well, but I just don't trust the plastic on it - its not right.
I picked one up in a gunshop and was really impressed with the trigger and overall design. Then I saw that the front end flexed like a toy in my hand. That was a no go, and this just verifies my problem with it. No other poly gun is this soft.
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If you want to make a case, take a Glock and an XD and drop them on hot brass. Even then, you only prove the material is more heat resistant. That proves that ONE case, that they are more temperature resistant. Overall it does not prove that they are "stronger", or that the SAR is any less serviceable under normal circumstances. Since heat resistance is not a problem under normal shooting conditions, this is a real non-issue, and MrGunsnGear treated it as such. Rather than making assumptions based on one incident, properly reported as an error on the reviewers part, find substantive comparisons before stating your assumption as fact. This is what you BELIEVE and that gives you a basis for making YOUR decision. It's now out there for consideration by others. SAR pistols are one of the most reviewed guns on YouTube, and while I haven't seen them all, in the many I have seen, frame integrity has never been an issue. In fact, I have never seen it mentioned in ANY review of any SAR poly frame pistol.
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You are conflating an awful lot here. First, there is no glass in a Glock frame, period. Glass fibers are not latent, they can be seen and felt, especially when the plastic surrounding them is cut/filed/sanded away. There is also nothing secret about Glocks.
How you jumped from that to the idea that I own a SAR made weapon of any kind is beyond me. I have never seen, touched, shot or squeezed a SAR of any construction and the CM9 could be a complete POS for all I know. The polymer used in a CM9 could very well be inferior, I never commented on that one way or the other.
All I said was that Glocks don't have glass fibers reinforcing their frames.
BTW, how to Glock employees make the guns without seeing how they are made?
As long as the thin, flexible polymer has memory and returns to its' original form that is EXACTLY what you want. Thin, rigid polymer = brittle & more prone to breakage.
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Glass reinforced polymer is the industry standard for a reason. Compare the CM9 Gen 2 to CZ P07, P10C, Glock, S&W, SIG, Steyr, SA XD, HK, etc. etc.
Glocks are the industry standard when it comes to polymer guns and they are not glass fiber reinforced.
Likely misleading.
1) Glock is quite secretive of their materials and process. Most of their employees never see how parts are made. It seems that industry savvy people believe that they use either glass reinforced polymer OR glass reinforced nylon.
2) Pick up any Glock (or other plastic gun listed and more, and squeeze the end between your fingers. Then do it to your CM 9 Gen 2. The 'industry standard feels strong and rigid. The CM9 feels like a cheap plastic toy.
3) Watch the explanation of MrGunsngear and how the OTHER part of the frame was dented easily by a brass casing.
Thus, it makes me believe that the CM 9 has some inferior plastic being used.
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Didn't mean to accuse you of owning a CM 9. I should have said "pick up A CM9 Gen 2". We know that Glock is not fiberglass and that it IS a composite. We DON'T know the composition. Glock is secretive and I have read that folks working there are fairly isolated from the various processes and assembly. Point: We don't know the composition.
But again - examine the Glock frame (and any other polymer gun out there) and its night-day compared to the Gen2 CM9. Shocked me, and reviewers don't pick it up. And my rant is for guys who cannot afford more than one gun or new folks who wouldn't normally pick this up. I say pass.
Otherwise, get a cheap blaster and have fun.
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Maybe reviewers don't "pick it up", because all things considered, it is a non-issue. Perhaps they actually view it as an acceptable manufacturing practice.
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I just took a loaded Magpul Gen 1 Pmag (5.56), and dropped it from chest high several times on a 9mm round face up, and couldn't produce a mark on it (its the light green color). So I took the mag and threw it on the casing. I made a slight mark - no more than you'd make scraping it with your finger nail. Not like on the video. This PMag isn't even the later model with better polymer.
All I know is that this CM9 has soft plastic for a frame. If you like that buy it. Heck - maybe this soft plastic is really a tech breakthrough and the next gen guns will all have it.
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Ahhhh, but that wasn't HOT brass just fired from the gun. You have convinced yourself, you are the one that matters to you. But as long as you try to convince others on one bit of inconsequential data, I will continue to refute it. If you want to make a case with bite, find more data. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.
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Ahhhh, but that wasn't HOT brass just fired from the gun. You have convinced yourself, you are the one that matters to you. But as long as you try to convince others on one bit of inconsequential data, I will continue to refute it. If you want to make a case with bite, find more data. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.
Right. I am just blowing smoke.
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Back on topic, please! ::)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/567/targeth.jpg)
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I've not held a SAR, if they anywhere close to the Canik I would feel confident. Great value and smooth and reliable is how I feel about my 3 Canik products. The P120 is a joy to shoot and the T100/SharkC aren't far behind at all. The are several SARs I would love to own. I thank everyone for the input!
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I have had my sar B6P 9mm since 2014. I am 53 rounds short of 4000 rounds of 115gr ammo, and have fired 102 rounds of Remington HTP+P. Not one jamb, two misfire. Am very happy with this gun.
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Yesterday I had my very first stove pipe on a Canik TP-9SF..... and I am pretty sure after 5k rounds of flawlessness - that it was the ammo.
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IMHO, Between my SAR B6P, K2P, and Canik TP9V1, I'm not worried about the Polymer construction of any of them!
The Polymer that Sarsimaz uses is the same as what Tanfoglio uses.
I've seen a polymer framed Tanfoglio Mid-size Force go 10,000 rounds and be dunked in water to cool it off during one afternoon shoot fest and well survive it.
The Polymer that Canik uses is the same as what Walther uses and Walther quality is excellent.
I've seen both the SAR K2P and Canik TP9 Series Pistols go through some very brutal punishment and come up shooting.
I can't speak to the new SAR CM9's durability, but it has been made with Military Contracts in mind, so I would tend to believe it's battle ready.
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This thread seems to have been resurrected after nearly two years, but I'll jump in. I have two SAR B6Ps, a Tristar S-120 (full size CZ 75B clone) in 9mm, a Tristar C-100 (CZ compact clone) in 9mm, and two more Tristar C-100s in .40S&W. The Tristars, all made by Canik, are great, and accept after-market tritium sights made for CZs. To my knowledge, no one has any after-market sights for the SAR B6P.
A piece of slide rail broke off the front insert of one of my SAR B6Ps. I'm not sure of the round count. I keep log books on them now. It was quickly fixed, but it happened. So, on the basis of my limited experience, I would say that the Tristars are likely to run without breakage longer. Of course, CDNN is selling the SAR B6Ps for such ridiculously low prices that I'm tempted to get another. They're actually selling a pink compact verson for $199.99 (https://www.cdnnsports.com/eaa-sar-b6p-pink-compact-9mm.html#.XVvr8d-YU5m). I wouldn't buy a pink gun because, you know, it wouldn't match my shoes ;D, but some people say that the frame can be painted.
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I own several Caniks and one Sar K2 45. all are steel or stainless steel(K2). The Sar quality of manufacturing is at least as good as the Caniks imho. Can't speak to the plastic guns as I don't own one. Each to his own said the man as he kissed the cow. I like steel cows not plastic ones. ;) Mega keeps coming up in conversation but seems to be made of unobtainium with unicorn horn grips. I keep looking but can't find a new one to buy! :-[
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I have a Tristar/Canik, P100, and a SAR B6P. The P100 is all steel, and is my EDC. Obviously, I trust my life to it. My B6P is my goto range gun. Obviously, it is a polymer frame gun. It functions flawlessly. With a couple thousand rounds through it I honestly can't remember a malfunction. I have even carried my B6P in daily carry from time to time. Either gun is more accurate than I am. Neither gun is a beauty queen. They are well crafted, but not well dressed. Both of the guns have a serviceable, polycoat type of finish on the steel. They are just good running guns. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either gun, to anyone.