The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: briang2ad on February 05, 2018, 08:08:57 PM
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I'd like to see:
Slightly thicker through the grip - slightly.
Paddle mag release (I know, I'm dreaming). A la P99.
Decocker that is flatter and rotates like the P01 - MAYBE like the P2000 - now you're talking. This gets the decocker out of the way of the slide release.
Longer and thinner slide release and ambi like the HK guns.
Ledge rear sight.
Improved roller bearing - in stainless or chromed.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
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Convertible grip on the P-09 to remove a portion of the lower to accept P-07 mags.
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I'd like to see them with the P10C texture.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
+1
YES! No big changes to the guns, just make the multi-optic cut and ship with a shaped filler plate and multi-optic ready
CZ Gen 3 P-series MOS
Just take the existing threaded barrel Suppressor/Comp Ready.....and make Optic-Ready too. Woo Hoo! O0
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I'd like to see much more aggressive stippling and a grip that is not flat; it needs to be a little bit convex.
Why, to easier counteract the pistol movement rearward - kinda like the P-10C's grip.
I'd like to see better controls - decocker & safety. They are flat for a reason but a ledge would assist or at least consider some other pattern that would provide better traction.
I love tall sights but the Suppressor Ready sights are a bit too tall (but they really work with my eyes). How about something in between the stock sights and the Suppressor Ready ones. Preferably Ameriglo with a thin (0.125" wide, 0.215" tall with "LumiGreen" tritium; 0.165" wide U-notch rear.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
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I'd like to see better controls - decocker & safety. They are flat for a reason but a ledge would assist or at least consider some other pattern that would provide better traction.
I love tall sights but the Suppressor Ready sights are a bit too tall (but they really work with my eyes). How about something in between the stock sights and the Suppressor Ready ones. Preferably Ameriglo with a thin (0.125" wide, 0.215" tall with "LumiGreen" tritium; 0.165" wide U-notch rear.
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The set-up on my FNH-FNX Tactical is really nice. The combination Safety/Decocker is set in allowing a little bigger lever. You can run it SA cocked & locked lever UP like 1911, or rotate the lever further down and it decocks into DA/SA.
The night sights are already set up to co-witness a RDS with multi-cut to mount your choice (I'm running a Trijicon RMR). 15+1 of 45ACP is a lot of firepower but the grip is surprisingly narrow measuring an actual 1.3" wide with a nice contoured shape and various backstraps. That's a sticky rubber Talon grip wrap but you can use Talon sandpaper for absolute non-slip surface. As you see it 34oz. with unloaded mag. IMHO a really well thought out tactical handgun.
(https://i.imgur.com/KcK6h5C.jpg?1)
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I'd like to see them with the P10C texture.
Or CZ could just sell backstrap inserts for the current generation P-07/P-09 with the P-10c texture (medium sized for me)
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
It can be cleanly done. While not a CZ, My arex zero tactical has 5 plates. One flat and 4 for optics, I couldn't ask for a cleaner factory looking state of the art optic plate setup.
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I'd like to see them with the P10C texture.
Or CZ could just sell backstrap inserts for the current generation P-07/P-09 with the P-10c texture (medium sized for me)
The mainspring housing isn't where significant stippling is needed. It's your support hand that needs traction (implying BOTH sides of the pistol as we have "Lefties", too).
Checkering like the P-10 would help for drawing then they could address the limited stippling the pistol has all around the grip with trapezoidal shapes versus what they have today. Look to S&W for a very effective stippling job on the M&P2.0
Our hands are not flat so if the grip had slight palm swells as well it would be great.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
Same here. Unless the optic cut is for a specific optic too many concessions are made IMO.
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I'd like to see much more aggressive stippling
I feel this way about almost every pistol LOL
My favorite texture at the moment is on the new M&P 2.0 with the P-10C coming in second.
Once i get my P-07s back from the Stipple Master I expect those results to get shook up ;-)
Of course, I'd prefer to not need to send off guns in the first place. I could totally live with P-10C style stippling and be happy enough.
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Yes, the new stipple on M&P 2.0 is about perfect. But until then....
Talon grip is $17.95 shipped. I use 'em on every poly gun I own.
However, I haven't tried the sandpaper version yet. Maybe too aggressive??
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Yes, the new stipple on M&P 2.0 is about perfect. But until then....
Talon grip is $17.95 shipped. I use 'em on every poly gun I own.
However, I haven't tried the sandpaper version yet. Maybe too aggressive??
I found them to be ok. Actually not as aggressive as I personally prefer.
Well, maybe grippy enough - just more flat than I like, if that makes sense.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
Same here. Unless the optic cut is for a specific optic too many concessions are made IMO.
SIG has gone with a proprietary RDS (Romeo 1) all set up on their RX models. Co-witness is perfect.
The Burris/Vortex or RMR seem to be emerging as the most popular cuts. I wonder how close they are?? Primary indicates their recommendation is Vortex Viper because it sits so low for co-witness. If it came from CZ with a Viper mounted and co-witness sights (or a coupon to purchase a Viper special deal); I'd be OK with that. O0
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SIG has gone with a proprietary RDS (Romeo 1) all set up on their RX models. Co-witness is perfect.
The Burris/Vortex or RMR seem to be emerging as the most popular cuts. I wonder how close they are?? Primary indicates their recommendation is Vortex Viper because it sits so low for co-witness. If it came from CZ with a Viper mounted and co-witness sights (or a coupon to purchase a Viper special deal); I'd be OK with that. O0
I agree - I just am really not a fan of the one-size-fits-many-with-adapter-plates approach.
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If CZ made the cut at the factory, I'm sure it wouldn't cost much extra. As prices of RDS drop, especially if the factory includes the cut, I just think this will become a really popular set up. I mean, people are paying $100-$150 now just for upgraded sights, so IF the gun cost $200 more with an RDS, I think it would be a winner. JMHO
Burris or Vortex are good durable optics and about $200 now (on sale) and I believe they both fit the same mount pattern. Leupold and RMR are great Optics, but considerably more $$ and each are different mounting patterns.
So, my vote would be a CZ P-07 and/or P-09 cut for Viper optic with sights that will co-witness. Buyer would then have the option to mount a Burris, Vortex Viper or Venom. Same mount.(I think).
However, I'm just not sure if there's enough room on a P-07/P-09 slide for both Viper cut and a rear sight. Might take CZ a little extra thought.
Meanwhile.....there's good machine shops. ::)
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However, I'm just not sure if there's enough room on a P-07/P-09 slide for both Viper cut and a rear sight. Might take CZ a little extra thought.
I'd say there is but it would cover the extractor pin - not a deal breaker IMO. My RMRs are that way and if I'm gonna work on the gun at all the RMR comes off ;-)
Meanwhile.....there's good machine shops. ::)
I'd say that will be the preferred option for the near future... at least until optics significantly change form factor.
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The only thing I could think to ask for is to have a new P09 in .357 SIG.
That is about the only thing that will make me bring another P09 home.
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
Same here. Unless the optic cut is for a specific optic too many concessions are made IMO.
SIG has gone with a proprietary RDS (Romeo 1) all set up on their RX models. Co-witness is perfect.
The Burris/Vortex or RMR seem to be emerging as the most popular cuts. I wonder how close they are?? Primary indicates their recommendation is Vortex Viper because it sits so low for co-witness. If it came from CZ with a Viper mounted and co-witness sights (or a coupon to purchase a Viper special deal); I'd be OK with that. O0
Viper or RMR are the two ideal optics for a co witness on these slides. Shield RMS is also a great option as it is small enough to be milled in front of the factory dovetail, and is so low profile, can even co witness with OEM non suppressor height sights.
As for the Sig comment, it was a great idea. But unfortunately the Romeo 1 is riddled with issues. You don't have to look hard at all to see many people having to send them back several times to be fixed, and many still not working after several trips back to the factory. With that said, ALL of them can break. But Sig is quite new to the mini red dot game compared to most others, so it's sort of a "why go that route?" thing for now.
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I'd be okay with a Viper pre installed or milled on a P07, but I would want a DPP for a P09 for Carry optics use or even just a bedside type gun. I think the RMR price is a little extreme, but the DPP price is quite cheap now ~$330. Not as cheap as Vortex offerings but still very cheap!
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Go Trijicon or go home.
Better yet... ATEI does phenomenal work as do others.
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See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
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Same here. Unless the optic cut is for a specific optic too many concessions are made IMO.
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SIG has gone with a proprietary RDS (Romeo 1) all set up on their RX models. Co-witness is perfect.
The Burris/Vortex or RMR seem to be emerging as the most popular cuts. I wonder how close they are?? Primary indicates their recommendation is Vortex Viper because it sits so low for co-witness. If it came from CZ with a Viper mounted and co-witness sights (or a coupon to purchase a Viper special deal); I'd be OK with that. O0
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Viper or RMR are the two ideal optics for a co witness on these slides. Shield RMS is also a great option as it is small enough to be milled in front of the factory dovetail, and is so low profile, can even co witness with OEM non suppressor height sights.
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Raining Brass:
I'm not familiar with the Shield RMS, but you learn something new everyday on the CZ Forum!
It looks similar to the JPoint from JP Enterprises which fits Leupold mounts. Does the Shield RMS fit same mounts with any other optics??
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But I think the BEST thing they could do is a better placement of decocker and slide release. That might be easier and would make a huge difference in speed. Of course paddles would also add speed, be ambi, but will never happen cuz buttons are dumber.
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I'd like to see:
Decocker that is flatter and rotates like the P01 - MAYBE like the P2000 - now you're talking. This gets the decocker out of the way of the slide release.
Longer and thinner slide release and ambi like the HK guns.
Ledge rear sight.
Improved roller bearing - in stainless or chromed.
Totally agree on these.
Decocker and slide release would be so much better if made more user friendly. I;ve started to have a good work around for hitting the slide release above/around the decocker - but it is still easy to get caught occasionally on the decocker, plus it really wants to make me shift my strong hand grip.
Would love more aggressive texture too.
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Love my p07 urban grey suppressor ready 🤷???
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Factory optics ready cutouts for multiple red dots.
See for me I would never purchase a gun that had multiple optic cuts. The fit and finish is just to unclean. The only optic I would ever run is a RMR type 2 and I want it to be cut perfectly into the slide so there?s no space fillers or anything.
Same here. Unless the optic cut is for a specific optic too many concessions are made IMO.
SIG has gone with a proprietary RDS (Romeo 1) all set up on their RX models. Co-witness is perfect.
The Burris/Vortex or RMR seem to be emerging as the most popular cuts. I wonder how close they are?? Primary indicates their recommendation is Vortex Viper because it sits so low for co-witness. If it came from CZ with a Viper mounted and co-witness sights (or a coupon to purchase a Viper special deal); I'd be OK with that. O0
Viper or RMR are the two ideal optics for a co witness on these slides. Shield RMS is also a great option as it is small enough to be milled in front of the factory dovetail, and is so low profile, can even co witness with OEM non suppressor height sights.
As for the Sig comment, it was a great idea. But unfortunately the Romeo 1 is riddled with issues. You don't have to look hard at all to see many people having to send them back several times to be fixed, and many still not working after several trips back to the factory. With that said, ALL of them can break. But Sig is quite new to the mini red dot game compared to most others, so it's sort of a "why go that route?" thing for now.
Raining Brass, Is the Shield RMS similar to JPoint from JP Enterprises? Does the Shield fit any other mount pattern, or is in unique??
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Same as JPoint.
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Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.
I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.
I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.
The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better? Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.
Thanks for your expertise, Vinny
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Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.
I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.
I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.
The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better? Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.
Thanks for your expertise, Vinny
Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.
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Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.
I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.
I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.
The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better? Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.
Thanks for your expertise, Vinny
Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.
Thanks for the info.
I guess I'm trying to respond to the OP in terms of what CZ might do in a 'Gen 3'
Although I wish CZ would offer a pre-milled P-07/09 to fit a standard competitively priced RDS it probably ain't gonna happen any time soon. Too bad, if a stock front sight would work with slide milled for RDS, it would make a very affordable total cost for the average CZ owner to have milled in, co-witness, RDS, for +$200-250.
Nice to see that Primary is offering some 'milling and RDS package deals', and some solutions to co-witness. However, total cost may still be out of reach for many.
It's moving in the right direction. O0
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Raining Brass,
The Shield RMS also fits a Leupold mount pattern like the JPoint? That's good to know.
The reason I'm asking is I have a P-09 SR I'm considering having milled at Primary.
Just waiting for my P-07 slide returning tomorrow that got milled for Venom, then I need to decide which optic for P-09.
I have had JPoints mounted on my SP-01 and shotgun for 1-1/2 years and so far no issues. Stays on 24/7 and self-adjusts to ambient light so when in the safe it consumes almost zero energy. Still on same batteries.
I like that it sits low and has a built-in 'rear sight notch' for co-witness (assuming front sight is correct height). That could be a solution to the issue of not having enough space behind the optic for a rear iron.
The Shield RMS I'm finding on-line seem to be $100+ more than the JPoint which is ~$250 on sale. Is Shield any better? Would you also recommend a JPoint? I also have a DDP 7.5moa, so it might be a plus if I could use either.
Thanks for your expertise, Vinny
Aaron Cowan did a pretty in depth review on it and he wasn't very impressed with it. That said, we've milled slides for dozens of them and to my knowledge they're all still going strong. I would suspect the added cost is due to the fact that the RMS has a billet CNC machined housing, and the J Point is simply polymer injected.
Thanks for the info.
I guess I'm trying to respond to the OP in terms of what CZ might do in a 'Gen 3'
Although I wish CZ would offer a pre-milled P-07/09 to fit a standard competitively priced RDS it probably ain't gonna happen any time soon. Too bad, if a stock front sight would work with slide milled for RDS, it would make a very affordable total cost for the average CZ owner to have milled in, co-witness, RDS, for +$200-250.
Nice to see that Primary is offering some 'milling and RDS package deals', and some solutions to co-witness. However, total cost may still be out of reach for many.
It's moving in the right direction. O0
Yes for co witness on the 07/09 you have a couple options:
Shield RMS can fit in front OEM dovetail and co witness with OEM non suppressor height (or suppressor) sights.
Trijicon RMR & Vortex Viper must replace OEM dovetail, but we offer co witness sights for those as well with user choice of new dovetail in front or behind optic.
Venom & FF III also have to go in place of OEM dovetail but could co witness if one wanted to order custom height sights from Dawson Precision (and have ridiculously tall suppressor height sights).
DP Pro is pretty unreasonable for a co witness. Some of our customers have used the iron that attaches to the DP Pro with like a .500" tall Dawson Precision front. It works, but pretty ridiculous looking and holster choices will be absolutely non existnet unless you give the gun to someone to custom make for you.
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Raining Brass,
Would love to see image of Shield RMS with CZ's OEM sights co-witnessing. Does Primary offer a package deal with milling and Shield optic? Didn't see on Primary website; but it does sound like a perfect set-up for a P-07/P-09 carry/optic gun.
Might save me the trouble of trying to reinvent the wheel for my P-09 SR
Thanks
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Don?t have any pics but we?ve done loads.
Our Instagram is the best place to go for anything Primary Machine. If we have a pic of it, that?s where you?ll find it.
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Ah Ha! You learn something new every day on the CZ Forum! Thanks Raining Brass for the Tip!
The J-Point RDS is actually the first generation SMS (Shield Mini-Sight) made by Shield, imported from UK to USA by JP Enterprises. It features a rugged polymer frame.
The Shield RMS (Reflex mini-sight) is an upgraded version with aluminum frame and has a battery drawer, but they both work similarly well.
Here's a link to a review:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/08/tfb-review-shield-rms-reflex-miniature-sight/
Haven't heard much about them yet in USA, but they're apparently very big in Europe. As mentioned, I've had the J-Point on my SP-01 and Mossberg for 1-1/2 years with no issues.
So, either J-Point or SMS can be milled into CZ P-07/09, fit Leupold mount pattern or plates, and are low-profile enough to still use Factory OEM front and rear sight to co-witness. Saves cost of taller replacement sights, extra sight dovetail milling, and co-witnesses keeping original sights in place.
That's GREAT news!
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Yes they have been in the mini red dot game for a LONG time (in the world of mini red dots) and they?re an OEM manufacturer to quite a few companies.
Another fun fact: somewhere around 07 or 08 they actually began manufacturing the old, ORIGINAL RMR for Trijicon as well, which was called the Trijicon RedDot. And you will also notice that it looks exactly like the RMS and J Point. ;) This was before Trijicon brought the manufacturing to the US, went to the forged aluminum housing, etc.
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Thanks to Raining Brass I found this:
Summary of Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics 4 year exhaustive study of mini-red dots on handguns for M&P use.
https://lockedback.com/results-4-year-handgun-red-dot-study-sage-dynamics/
Anyone doubting the effectiveness of RDS should read this. Someday, they will be as prolific as scopes on rifles.
If CZ ever plans a P-07/09 'Gen 3'......in addition to some of the good ideas in this thread, IMHO It should also accommodate a RDS, co-witnessing the factory sights.
This old dog can still learn new tricks. ;)