Author Topic: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed  (Read 10589 times)

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Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2023, 09:33:36 AM »
I'm still kind of a novice, I have my gun license (Europe, you utter hellhole for gun enthusiasts) for almost a year now and...

I had to laugh! Somedays you proabably sit there and wonder why you simply didn't take up something benign like clock collecting. The truth is, every hobby has it's "learning curve" and some very troublesome rough spots. Work from the factory setup... toward what you understand to be "best practice".

I learned the same lesson about "gun greases". Results can be VERY temperature dependent. I now exclusively use thin synthetic motor oil, something like 0W20. One drop on each rail, one drop on the barrel, one drop on the trigger group. The stuff migrates to where it's needed. And the best part is, the 4 drops left in each can after changing my oil is all it takes.

Keep in mind that the difference in your gun and everybody else's "perfect gun" can be 0.001mm of wear, polish & buffing, and rounding of formerly sharp edges. A dimension so small you can't see it. A dimension so small you'd need to be in a lab to measure it.

You'll get there.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 11:13:01 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline dabljues

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2023, 04:55:12 PM »
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I had to laugh! Somedays you proabably sit there and wonder why you simply didn't take up something benign like clock collecting

Actually, collecting watches was my primary hobby before I learned that I can in fact own a gun if I manage to suffer through the bureaucracy :D Since I've become a gun owner, nothing has consumed me more in my life.

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I learned the same lesson about "gun greases". Results can be VERY temperature dependent. I now exclusively use thin synthetic motor oil, something like 0W20. One drop on each rail, one drop on the barrel, one drop on the trigger group. The stuff migrates to where it's needed. And the best part is, the 4 drops left in each can after changing my oil is all it takes.

Yeah. I think most of the guys in my shooting club use motor oils - because it's cheaper. I'll never go back to grease (maybe except for some semi-auto rifles, which I currently don't own). Now I'll definitely go with a thin oil and see what happens. Maybe nothing, but it's still good to remember the differences between lubricants when the weather is taken into equation.

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Keep in mind that the difference in your gun and everybody else's "perfect gun" can be 0.001mm of wear, polish & buffing, and rounding of formerly sharp edges. A dimension so small you can't see it. A dimension so small you'd need to be in a lab to measure it.

This is exactly right! No two guns are made equal, not the production nor the hand-fitted ones.

Offline dabljues

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2023, 04:37:22 AM »
An update!

I went to the range yesterday, fully prepared:

* cleaned the gun and used a thinner oil, as I mentioned
* all mags were fresh clean, I also used DuPont teflon spray on them (not for lubrication per se, but preservation)
* done a lil' polish to the slide stop tip (as in here) - nothing invasive, I took almost no metal
* took the factory recoil spring
* took a little ammo box to collect the malfunctioning rounds
* I even took a caliper

So, I went and shot 290 rounds, I counted (shot 4 boxes of 124gr, 1 box of 140gr and 1 of 150gr, all S&B). Not one malfunction! I was happy like a child. And before that I could be skeptical because, well, 300 rounds may not be enough to jam the gun up. However, this time, I really felt the snappiness. What I mean by that is when I was closing the slide via the slide stop or by slingshotting it, I sometimes (especially later during the range visit) could feel it dragging. Like it wasn't snappy, it was sluggish + I sometimes could feel the round hitting the feed ramp and only then feel the second "click" of the action closing.

This time it was different. No matter if I pushed the slide or used the slingshot method, each time it was really snappy and fast. Same thing during shooting. Sometimes, during the recoil, I could feel a strange movement of the slide. Like it wasn't just back->forward movement, a quick one, it felt like the slide was "sliding" or "gliding" on its own timing. Hard to explain, I'd attribute it to a thicker oil. But to sum up, each time the action closed it was snappy. I had issues with it before when slingshotting (probably because I didn't take my fingers off the slide soon enough and I was riding it back for a tiny moment), but now no matter what I did - snappy (I'm repeating myself so much).

Anyway, aside from the mags and the different oil, nothing changed since my previous visit which had serious hangups after like 70-80 rounds. I'm telling myself that this has to be the mags, but deep in my heart I feel that this is due to the oil. I really don't wanna entertain that thought, since if it is/was the oil, then I wasted time, energy and money just to fix something that could be done by going to the other room and grabbing a different can of oil. I think it could be just a combination of things that was necessary for my specific gun: polishing the feed ramp, deep cleaning the mags, changing the oil I use. And probably each one of these helped on its own, as the gun got dirty during shooting, it wasn't enough. Now I did them all and even at the end of the trip, the gun pretty much felt the same as during the first shots.

Soo, I don't know. I think I could say that the issue is resolved. I don't think I can provide an answer like "it was X" or "it was Y". I think that it was "X, Y and Z", but at least for now I attribute the most of it to the oil (really thin one, spray form).

One question: I shot 300 rounds, okay. As it was mentioned previously in this thread, the gun should be able to shoot more without cleaning. Not that I endorse this (I clean my guns after every range trip), but just to check if it's really "fixed" - should I maybe not clean the gun, leave it be and go to the range next week? I would just probably oil it before going out. This could prove that it wasn't just luck and the issue is gone. I thought about that because if I clean it, then the next range trip I'll also be tempted to shoot 300 rounds (my wallet burns) but if the result is the same, it's not that meaningful. But without cleaning it, each shot is a meaningful test, piling up on those 300 I've shot yesterday. And I could then come back and say: "hey, today I shot another 300, it's 600 without cleaning the gun and not one hangup!". What do you think?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2023, 07:31:28 AM »
One question: I shot 300 rounds, okay. As it was mentioned previously in this thread, the gun should be able to shoot more without cleaning. Not that I endorse this (I clean my guns after every range trip), but just to check if it's really "fixed" - should I maybe not clean the gun, leave it be and go to the range next week? I would just probably oil it before going out. This could prove that it wasn't just luck and the issue is gone. I thought about that because if I clean it, then the next range trip I'll also be tempted to shoot 300 rounds (my wallet burns) but if the result is the same, it's not that meaningful. But without cleaning it, each shot is a meaningful test, piling up on those 300 I've shot yesterday. And I could then come back and say: "hey, today I shot another 300, it's 600 without cleaning the gun and not one hangup!". What do you think?

That depends upon your ammo. Some powders will leave a lot of ash and trash, some powders just carbon black, others still nothing. You'll need to be the judge.
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Offline tdogg

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2023, 11:02:22 AM »
I think you should just shoot it until it starts failing (assuming this is a range toy).  Maybe add some oil to the rails on occasion?

Were you running the factory recoil spring or did you take it just in case?  If you swapped back to the factory recoil spring, I'd wager that was the solution.  I have a hard time believing your lubricant was causing this (unless you are using Honey).

Congrats on figuring it out??!

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline dabljues

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2023, 11:20:12 AM »
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I think you should just shoot it until it starts failing (assuming this is a range toy).  Maybe add some oil to the rails on occasion?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

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Were you running the factory recoil spring or did you take it just in case?  If you swapped back to the factory recoil spring, I'd wager that was the solution.

I took it just in case. Assuming a random rep from CZ is right, the factory one in TS2 is 13lbs. I was using an 11lbs one (also from CZ, I ordered it a couple of weeks ago). And this time, 11lbs felt like 13lbs. I'm not talking about the weight, but about the feeling of the action closing. Before - heaver recoil spring gave me that "snap" when it closed (so the initial issue was still there, but having more power, it got the job done by brute force). Like it was a sure thing, click and done. The 11lbs one was like - sometimes it was sluggish, I could feel it's like a two stage process, not a quick single snap. But this time, each time I dropped the slide, it felt good.

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I have a hard time believing your lubricant was causing this (unless you are using Honey)

Hmm, well. Not exactly honey. It is a thick synthetic oil in a bottle (not spray form). It is meant for guns, sold by a reputable brand in Poland. I can give you a link here, but it doesn't say much. I'm also not that convinced that it was lubrication alone, I'd attribute this to 3 things: feed ramp polish, cleaning the mags and changing the oil, but I don't know.

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Congrats on figuring it out??!

Thanks and fingers crossed man! I mean, I'm tempted to leave the gun "dirty", just lube it before going out to the range next week and see what happens. Even right now I'm actually convinced it worked. Because the "snappiness" of the gun didn't deteriorate as more rounds were fired. Granted, it wasn't a 1000 rounds, but still.

Offline dabljues

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2023, 11:40:19 AM »
An update!

Well, yesterday I was at the range. Didn't clean the gun, I only oiled it up and cleaned the feed ramp a little bit with a Q-tip.

200 rounds fired through the gun, not one malfunction. I think this proves that the issue was fixed. Whatever it was. From now on, I will clean the mags regularly, maybe look at the lubrication more seriously. Other than that, I guess it is and was fine. Maybe it was a tiny difference in the machining and the gun just needed to be broken in. Can't really say

I wanna thank all of you guys! Thanks for the tips, ideas and patience! It was a life saver for me. If any of you are ever in Poland, drinks are on me!

Offline Wobbly

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Re: CZ TS2 Failure to Feed
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2023, 11:15:30 AM »
I wanna thank all of you guys! Thanks for the tips, ideas and patience! It was a life saver for me. If any of you are ever in Poland, drinks are on me!

We always have MORE ideas !

Thanks for your input. We had a great time working through the issue.

All the best.
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.