Author Topic: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?  (Read 2263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« on: November 19, 2018, 06:00:27 PM »
Hello everyone,

Bit of background before my newbie question here. I'm a longtime S&W M&P IPSC shooter, and have been considering trying out "the dark side" lol and thinking about an all steel gun. Production Division here in Australia is dominated almost 99% by people with Shadows either 1 or 2 but they do not fit my (smallish) hand at all. So I'm currently looking/waiting to find a CZ85 being a lefty (Combats are completely unavailable here) so it's possibly a very long waiting game...but I have found one.

The ad doesn't mention it but I am reasonably sure there is meant to be a RH slide stop...could anyone confirm this re the pic? And apologies for the obvious questions: it is fixed sights where you cannot add an aftermarket without milling the slide (and also completely unadjustable for windage - as the M&P is, with a hammer lol) so I believe? I am also unsure if the mag release is able to be reversed, and google has been no help so far.


Many thanks in advance.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:05:27 PM by zhuk »

Offline Tok36

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4811
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 06:19:08 PM »
It looks like an older Pre-B. The year of manufacture should be located to the rear of the ejection port on the slide. I am thinking that some the older 85's only came with ambi safetys but i am not 100% on it. Another forum member should be along shortly to correct me if i am mistaken. The newer 85B models have ambi safetys, slide release and a swapable mag release.

If the mag button is round it is not swapable. If the mag button is key hole shaped it is swapable. You will need to look at the left side of the pistol to confirm this.

Have you tried a Shadow with thin grips installed. I ask because the SP-01 Shadow is not much bigger at the grip than a 75/85.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 02:53:39 AM by Tok36 »
Will work for CZ pics! (including but not limited to all CZ clones)

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 08:22:13 PM »
I've seen CZ85's for sale (on the internet) without the right side slide release.  CZ man.  If they can make something different and call it the same thing they seem ready/willing/able to do it.

Would having the frame drilled on the right side to allow the installation of the right side slide release be "legal" in the country and the matches you shoot?

You can buy the right side slide release (I've bought one from CZ USA) from CZ.  The same spring that holds the left side slide release in place will hold the right side slide release, too.  Just needs a larger hole on the right side (the OD of the slide release on that side is 0.25" - I'll have to check my notes I made when I was converting a CZ75 Compact into a CZ85 Compact clone.)  Might need the left side slide release, too, if the one installed in our pistol isn't made to mate with and allow correct movement of the right side lever to release the slide.

Yeah, OD of the right side slide release measured 0.250".

I did this one myself with a drill press and lots of measuring of parts (and a small amount of fear I'd screw it up, but the excitement over rode the fear.  Neat little Compact.  Carrying it for a couple years (every day) put some surface wear on the controls and the front/sides of the slide from going in/out of the holster a couple times each day.  I may get it refinished next year.  Something much more durable than the factory black coating.

Good luck with yours, if you buy it.



« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 08:27:31 PM by M1A4ME »
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 06:06:20 AM »
Thanks very much everyone for the replies!  :)

It looks like an older Pre-B. The year of manufacture should be located to the rear of the ejection port on the slide. I am thinking that some the older 85's only came with ambi safetys but i am not 100% on it. Another forum member should be along shortly to correct me if i am mistaken. The newer 85B models have ambi safetys, slide release and a swapable mag release.

If the mag button is round it is not swapable. If the mag button is key hole shaped it is swapable. You will need to look at the left side of the pistol to confirm this.

Have you tried a Shadow with thin grips installed. I ask because the SP-01 Shadow is not much bigger at the grup than a 75/85.


Hi Tok36 (like the name, I have a 1936 Tokarev, as it happens lol)


OK, I got onto the dealer today and asked about the possible missing slide lever, explained every photo I'd seen online:




confirmed it ought to be present  - he got the gun out and did admit that there were some marks around that pin, so its likely there was one fitted once. They are obtainable here http://www.czcustom.com.au/handgun-3/-cz-oem/cz-oem-slide-stop-85-85-combat-right-side-64?sort=p.price&order=DESC&limit=50

Re the mag release, I asked for a LH slide photo and alas it is round and so not reversible...I'm not sure if the original 85s were. One other strange thing is the LH slide release...looks nothing like any others I've seen lol






The other local gun I'm going by (sold in Sep 2016, which shows you how rare they are here, see below) has a completely different lever, although also a round mag release. The sights on the 2016 gun appear to be straight fixed whereas in the pic I was sent today whatever rear sight it has seems to have been dovetailed into the slide...if so that's out for Production, but still, curiouser and curioser. Unless that's another weird variant lol


https://ssaagunsales.com/listing/11572



And hey, I understand completely what you mean re the Shadow..it would definitely solve all availability issues. But they really don't feel right even with slimmer grips (which I did handle once), but tbh I really just don't like the look of them (plus their ubiquity lol)

There is also one CZ 75 with adjustable sights on offer at my local gun shop, and by coincidence I'm picking up a transferred rifle there very soon (if the permit to acquire ever turns up lol) Unfortunately a no in anyt case go with no RH safety, but may as well have a feel of it in any case :)

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 07:54:12 AM »
The pistol with the odd/unusual slide release also has a rare style of rear sight on it.  Not many CZ's made with that sight.  If you get it, don't lose the parts while detail stripping it.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline Earl Keese

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3859
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 08:00:33 AM »
I believe that's a Tanfoglio slide stop. I've seen several surplus 75's fitted with them.

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 08:37:54 AM »
I've seen CZ85's for sale (on the internet) without the right side slide release.  CZ man.  If they can make something different and call it the same thing they seem ready/willing/able to do it.

Would having the frame drilled on the right side to allow the installation of the right side slide release be "legal" in the country and the matches you shoot?

You can buy the right side slide release (I've bought one from CZ USA) from CZ.  The same spring that holds the left side slide release in place will hold the right side slide release, too.  Just needs a larger hole on the right side (the OD of the slide release on that side is 0.25" - I'll have to check my notes I made when I was converting a CZ75 Compact into a CZ85 Compact clone.)  Might need the left side slide release, too, if the one installed in our pistol isn't made to mate with and allow correct movement of the right side lever to release the slide.

Yeah, OD of the right side slide release measured 0.250".

I did this one myself with a drill press and lots of measuring of parts (and a small amount of fear I'd screw it up, but the excitement over rode the fear.  Neat little Compact.  Carrying it for a couple years (every day) put some surface wear on the controls and the front/sides of the slide from going in/out of the holster a couple times each day.  I may get it refinished next year.  Something much more durable than the factory black coating.

Good luck with yours, if you buy it.




Nice looking compact, mate!

Of course we can't have them because why would you bother when the only legal genuine reason for ownership is target shooting  ::) not getting political lol

Re the slide lever. If the dealer reckons there are marks around that pin, indicating there was once a slide release in place...hmmmmm now I dunno what to think. And as you can see in my last post the left side lever looks completely unlike the so called 'usual' type as well (also available http://www.czcustom.com.au/handgun-3/-cz-oem/cz-oem-safety-left-cz-75-85-sp-01-29?sort=p.price&order=DESC&limit=50) Does seem like a bit of a mixmaster huh!

I'd look for a 75b, but I've only seen two here, both the new model bead blasted stainless which I'm not a fan of, and 1400 bucks is not what I'd want to pay either when you gotta factor in an added 6 mags plus holster. Just looked up gunbroker. . . and yeah, that was probably a mistake :o lol

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 08:42:01 AM »
The pistol with the odd/unusual slide release also has a rare style of rear sight on it.  Not many CZ's made with that sight.  If you get it, don't lose the parts while detail stripping it.

Right, thanks for the info...so it's 'OEM', so to speak! that is interesting. It looks somewhat adjustable with that screw, to my mind.

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2018, 08:46:59 AM »
I believe that's a Tanfoglio slide stop. I've seen several surplus 75's fitted with them.

Ha that wouldn't surprise me, also interesting thanks for that Earl. Guessing a standard slide stop would be a simple drop in then...going by the necessity of oem parts only for Production rules. 


Offline Earl Keese

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3859
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2018, 08:51:14 AM »
Should be, as long as the previous owner fitted the slide stop to the frame and not the other way around. I don't know if the Tanfoglio slide stop drops in or not.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Offline afultz075

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2018, 01:27:45 PM »
That gun is old enough where it's likely going to be milled for the old-style right hand stop stop lever. You can't buy replacements any longer. It will need to be drilled out to accept the new style slide stop lever.

Offline rdcinhou

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1147
  • Coat of Arms for Uherský Brod
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 08:15:52 PM »
Looking at my Pre-B CZ85 which does have the right-hand slide stop, I think that if the pin sticking out the right side of the frame protrudes 0.25" (I measured mine) AND has a notch closer to the slide which would act to keep the slide stop lever captive, that what you have could be fitted with a right-hand slide stop.

Of course mine is a 1987 and has the rounded trigger guard.  Your photo shows the squared-off trigger guard so it must be a good deal later.

Side note--I wish that I had studied this sub-board more closely before looking for magazines for it (the auction that I won didn't come with any).  I mistakenly bought some "old" used CZ75 mags at last weekend's gun show, only to find out that the Pre-B needs the special Pre-B magazines (now on order with CZ-USA).

Of course now I have a couple of more mags that fit some of my other CZs, but I do regret not doing my homework.
CZ24, 27, 38, 40P, 45, 52, Vzor 50, 70, CZ75BΩ, 75D PCR, P01, P07, Phantom, SP01 Tactical, Shadow 2 (Blue, Urban Gray), P09, P10C, P10F, 82, 83, 85 PreB,9 7BE,
 100, 1911A1, 2075BD RAMI, 452 American, 550 Urban Counter Sniper, 805 Bren, Drake G2, Duo & Z, VZ24

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5336
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 06:25:41 AM »
The pistols have a small diameter "spring" that inserts (very short leg) into a hole in the frame on the right side, inside the frame (you can see it with the slide off).  The long leg of the spring goes under a pin in the frame (right side of the frame, again) and puts pressure down into a slot/groove in the top of the slide stop shaft.  When you remove the slide stop you can see a little groove where the flattened end meets the round shaft.

The right side slide release uses that same spring to hold it in the frame.  The hollow section/shaft of the right side lever fits over the left side slide release shaft but has a slot cut in the top of it.  That slot allows the spring to set down through the hollow shaft of the right side lever to fit into the groove in the left side lever and hold both levers in place.

The left side lever is removed by lining up the notches in the slide/frame on the left side and pushing it out with something (I used the hard plastic magazine base/floor plate) so your can remove the slide/barrel/recoils spring and clean/inspect/lube.

The right side lever can be removed, if you feel the need) by rotating it around to the point where the spring is forced out of the slot in the hollow shaft and rides up onto the solid portion of the shaft.  Then you can just pull the right side lever out of the frame as the spring isn't holding it in place any longer.  The right side lever can be a pain to get pack in as it isn't beveled on the end to make it pop past that spring easier.

When I rebuilt my Pre B CZ85 I ordered new left and right side slide release levers.  I talked to CZ Custom and was told that sometime in the past the right side lever was upgraded due to breakage of the hollow shaft.  The metal was too thin and some were breaking/cracking.  The fix was to make the hollow shaft walls thicker (same ID, larger OD) which required the hole in the frame to be larger.  I elected to stick with the original at the time (having done my CZ85 Compact clone project, now I'd go ahead and drill the frame out myself, but at the time I just didn't want to do that).  If mine ever breaks I'll have to make the frame hole larger.

The newer style right side lever will work fine with the older style left side lever and they didn't change those, they are still the same piece (if I understand what I think I heard while talking with CZ Custom).

If the pistol you're looking at had a right side lever and it is now missing you'll be able to tell as there will be a big gap between the frame hole and the left side lever shaft due to the missing right side lever.

Good luck with it.

Oh, couple of other things about some of the Pre B pistols.  Magazines - not all Pre B's can use modern magazines.  There are some threads on the forum here about modifying the internal areas of the mag. well to allow modern magazines to insert just fine.  Yours, being a transition model, may not have that issue.

Another thing is the barrels.  Again, a transition model may not have the issue, but my Pre B would not accept a modern replacement barrel.  The barrel and slide were made different.  I had to open up the inside (near the front of the rails - it's all internal so you wouldn't even realize it - been refinished, too) of the slide near the muzzle end to allow a modern barrel to fit/function.  My original barrel was pitted pretty badly in the chamber and barrel sections so I figured I'd better replace it.

I think the Pre B's are neat.  I wouldn't want a CZ75 Pre B as some of them are impossible to get safeties/parts for the safeties for these days.  But the 85's use all the parts the newer 85's use except that right side safety lever (well, all the parts but the front sight and the barrel bushing, but that's another story).

Again, good luck with it.  I like mine.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2018, 05:56:30 AM »
Apologies for the late reply everyone, and many thanks for your replies.


That gun is old enough where it's likely going to be milled for the old-style right hand stop stop lever. You can't buy replacements any longer. It will need to be drilled out to accept the new style slide stop lever.

Maybe yes, you could well be right afultz. I managed to get to my local gun shop yesterday (miraculously my rifle PTA turned up) and had a look at a SAO 75 model for sale, and also a brand new bead blasted stainless 85b....and interestingly neither of them had RH stop levers...not sure what to think of that tbh. Apart from the fact that apparently you can do without them lol




Looking at my Pre-B CZ85 which does have the right-hand slide stop, I think that if the pin sticking out the right side of the frame protrudes 0.25" (I measured mine) AND has a notch closer to the slide which would act to keep the slide stop lever captive, that what you have could be fitted with a right-hand slide stop.

Of course mine is a 1987 and has the rounded trigger guard.  Your photo shows the squared-off trigger guard so it must be a good deal later.

Side note--I wish that I had studied this sub-board more closely before looking for magazines for it (the auction that I won didn't come with any).  I mistakenly bought some "old" used CZ75 mags at last weekend's gun show, only to find out that the Pre-B needs the special Pre-B magazines (now on order with CZ-USA).

Of course now I have a couple of more mags that fit some of my other CZs, but I do regret not doing my homework.

G'day rdcinhou :)

(as an aside, just looking at your sig, you seem to own CZs in the same way that I own Mosin Nagants ;D lol)

OK; I got another reply email from the shop, which didn't necessarily answer my specific questions about the rear sight and if it could be removed lol but I got another couple of photos. You mention a "notch"....would this be one to the right of the stop pin here:




Another photo, LH side




Interesting that you mention magazines as well...so the preB requires its own mags? That definitely would be a dealbreaker as I need another 6 on top of the one supplied. The shop are selling "75/85" mags so looks like I'll have to ring them to check (email seems a bit pointless lol) As well as the drop-free factor, which I will ask (not expecting them to if I've read correctly) but I believe a Combat mag brake can be installed which will allow that.



The gun also appears to have a red fibre optic installed (? lol) so at least its a newer replaceable sight and not an original staked one (again, if I've read correctly).




« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 06:38:36 AM by zhuk »

Offline zhuk

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Is this 85 missing the slide stop?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2018, 06:28:57 AM »
The pistols have a small diameter "spring" that inserts (very short leg) into a hole in the frame on the right side, inside the frame (you can see it with the slide off).  The long leg of the spring goes under a pin in the frame (right side of the frame, again) and puts pressure down into a slot/groove in the top of the slide stop shaft.  When you remove the slide stop you can see a little groove where the flattened end meets the round shaft.

The right side slide release uses that same spring to hold it in the frame.  The hollow section/shaft of the right side lever fits over the left side slide release shaft but has a slot cut in the top of it.  That slot allows the spring to set down through the hollow shaft of the right side lever to fit into the groove in the left side lever and hold both levers in place.

The left side lever is removed by lining up the notches in the slide/frame on the left side and pushing it out with something (I used the hard plastic magazine base/floor plate) so your can remove the slide/barrel/recoils spring and clean/inspect/lube.

The right side lever can be removed, if you feel the need) by rotating it around to the point where the spring is forced out of the slot in the hollow shaft and rides up onto the solid portion of the shaft.  Then you can just pull the right side lever out of the frame as the spring isn't holding it in place any longer.  The right side lever can be a pain to get pack in as it isn't beveled on the end to make it pop past that spring easier.

When I rebuilt my Pre B CZ85 I ordered new left and right side slide release levers.  I talked to CZ Custom and was told that sometime in the past the right side lever was upgraded due to breakage of the hollow shaft.  The metal was too thin and some were breaking/cracking.  The fix was to make the hollow shaft walls thicker (same ID, larger OD) which required the hole in the frame to be larger.  I elected to stick with the original at the time (having done my CZ85 Compact clone project, now I'd go ahead and drill the frame out myself, but at the time I just didn't want to do that).  If mine ever breaks I'll have to make the frame hole larger.

The newer style right side lever will work fine with the older style left side lever and they didn't change those, they are still the same piece (if I understand what I think I heard while talking with CZ Custom).

If the pistol you're looking at had a right side lever and it is now missing you'll be able to tell as there will be a big gap between the frame hole and the left side lever shaft due to the missing right side lever.

Good luck with it.

Oh, couple of other things about some of the Pre B pistols.  Magazines - not all Pre B's can use modern magazines.  There are some threads on the forum here about modifying the internal areas of the mag. well to allow modern magazines to insert just fine.  Yours, being a transition model, may not have that issue.

Another thing is the barrels.  Again, a transition model may not have the issue, but my Pre B would not accept a modern replacement barrel.  The barrel and slide were made different.  I had to open up the inside (near the front of the rails - it's all internal so you wouldn't even realize it - been refinished, too) of the slide near the muzzle end to allow a modern barrel to fit/function.  My original barrel was pitted pretty badly in the chamber and barrel sections so I figured I'd better replace it.

I think the Pre B's are neat.  I wouldn't want a CZ75 Pre B as some of them are impossible to get safeties/parts for the safeties for these days.  But the 85's use all the parts the newer 85's use except that right side safety lever (well, all the parts but the front sight and the barrel bushing, but that's another story).

Again, good luck with it.  I like mine.


M1A4ME, many thanks for the informative and detailed reply :)


From the new photos I got today, it does look like there was originally a lever; there is definitely a gap visible above the lever shaft. If the hole would need to be enlarged for a new lever, I'm not sure how that stacks up rule-wise although slide modifications are geared more specifically at milling for sights and lightening cuts, I kinda doubt just bring bringing something back to spec would fall into that category.

I will definitely have to ask re the mag issue and whether this gun makes it width-wise. If it appears to be a transition model (thanks for that info), might just be lucky on that.


Re barrels, in that case I'd guess that this would be a modern configuration as it measures 127mm, made to confirm to our (wholly pointless ::)) 120mm min bbl length laws.

So the only thing I'm really unsure about is the rear sight...if it's particularly old/rare. And I still don't know what the screws designate, apart from just holding it in the dovetail, presuming it would not be adjustable. But I'd like to know if it can be removed...most pre-B sights I've seen online appear to be the service fixed variety with no dovetailing.


Cheers for all the brilliant replies everyone; much appreciated.

 

anything