Establishing 223 load for new bolt action rifle

[toteone]

A few months back I was looking to create a reasonably priced load to shoot 223 at 300 - 400yds with my AR 15.  At that time my AR 1/8 barrel shot 62 - 69gr bullets more accurately at distance and I was able to do ok in my 3gun matches using factory ammo. Well, I since borrowed and shot a TC Compass 223 from an acquaintance at my club and loved it.  It shot sub MOA at 100 and close to 1MOA at 300 consistently.  He said he used Bob's Bulk 223 bullets (55gr FMJ) and if you order 1000 they only come out to 8.3 cents a bullet (shipping $6).  Well I just acquired a TC Compass for myself and want to shoot it instead of my AR in upcoming 3 gun match season. 

First, I want to make sure my upcoming reloading process for this 223 bolt rifle is appropriate for getting consistent rounds on approx 6-8 in. targets at 300yds (the longest/hardest shot in my 3 gun matches).  I am not looking to benchrest shoot, but will chase accuracy as far as practicality/reasonable cost allows.

Has anyone shot the Bobs 223 55gr FMJ bullets?  I am only looking at these because they seem to shoot well for others and do not break the bank.

Since I have never reloaded rifle rounds, I am listing my initial thought process for upcoming reloading sessions for scrutiny and suggestions:

I have a progressive Dillon 550C press with the 4 Dillon 223 rifle dies.
My idea is to take uncleaned previously fire formed brass from my rifle (sort crimped vs non crimp by head stamp) then:

1.  Mass lube, resize and decap primers (I plan on resizing shoulder to .005 less than my fire formed out of rifle using Hornady comparator)

2.  Wet tumble to clean lube off and get primer pockets cleaner as a bonus

3.  Swage primer pocket (if necessary) and trim if necessary, debur case mouth

4.  Accomplish remaining steps:  priming only in station one, drop powder in station 2, seat bullet in station 3 and finally crimp in station 4 if necessary.

I am wet tumbling AFTER step one to get rid of lube and clean out primer pockets.  I have a wet tumbling process with SS pins that works out great and I don't want to change that.

I still need to buy a trimmer and swager before I can move forward.  Looking at Dillon swager (kinda pricey) and a simple manual trimmer like ones from Lyman or Hornady.

Thanks in advance for your time and suggestions.  I realize this is not a CZ specific thread but you guys are awesome about sharing knowledge and  I am excited to begin the rifle reload process.  The reloading of 9mm for my CZ pistols has been fun and help out tremendously in my pistol matches, not to mention way less expensive.   

[Crawl]

Not signing off on every step of your process, but I will add two things I am certain of.

Before doing anything else, I use a dry media tumbler (with corn cob and polish, and it's at least as shiny as my wet tumbler). Not saying you should switch, but I am saying that this allows me to more easily spot any brass cases that are damaged/unsafe.

For powder, I use RE15, which has produced repeatable, 1/4" groups through my AR15 Performance 223 Wylde barrel. Of course this uses Sierra Tipped King bullets, but the powder is also fantastic and available locally.

The only complaint I know of about RE15 is that it CAN be temperature sensitive. If you live somewhere like Texas, that can have an impact throughout the year. At 300 yards, probably is irrelevant.

[Wobbly]

For rounds shot in this rifle, all you may need to do is "neck size" the case.

When I reloaded 223 on a 550, I used 2 tool heads. My process went like this...

1. First Tool Head
? Sizing Die only
? Roll on lube pad
? Send cases through press and collect

2. Outside the Press
? Trim to length
? Clean with whatever process
? Swage primer pocket
? Debur edges

3. Second Tool Head
? Powder Die and Seating Die
? Install primer
? Install powder
? Seat bullet

So your plan matches what I was doing very closely. One of the big differences is that I saw no need to crimp rifle bullets, and I really don't see that adding anything to your accuracy.

I also use a Lyman case trimmer, and the accessories you can get make that a nice basic unit.... if you have the gray unit with the solid metal bush. If you have the orange unit, then you have the plastic bush, and that's not so good. If you already have a drill press or a spare electric motor, then I'd suggest a Giraud trimmer head which can trim and de-burr in a single step.

See: https://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-tri-way-trimmer.html

 

[toteone]

For rounds shot in this rifle, all you may need to do is "neck size" the case.

When I reloaded 223 on a 550, I used 2 tool heads. My process went like this...

1. First Tool Head
? Sizing Die only
? Send cases through press and collect

2. Outside the Press
? Trim to length
? Clean with whatever process
? Swage primer pocket
? Debur edges

3. Second Tool Head
? Powder Die and Seating Die
? Roll on lube pad
? Install primer
? Install powder
? Seat bullet

So your plan matches what I was doing very closely. One of the big differences is that I saw no need to crimp rifle bullets, and I really don't see that adding anything to your accuracy.

I also use a Lyman case trimmer, and the accessories you can get make that a nice basic unit.... if you have the gray unit with the solid metal bush. If you have the orange unit, then you have the plastic bush, and that's not so good. If you already have a drill press or a spare electric motor, then I'd suggest a Giraud trimmer head which can trim and de-burr in a single step.

See: https://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-tri-way-trimmer.html

 

A couple questions about your process you presented:

Why did you lube before installing primer, adding power and seating bullet?  You did not lube prior to your first stage where you sized and deprimed?  I was under impression that lube was only needed for sizing process to avoid stuck cases.

I have only heard about neck sizing, don't know how to accomplish.  Can I neck size with my Dillon sizing/decapping die?

I need to purchase trimmer.  Not sure what you mean by brushes associated with trimmer unit.  So make sure and get the "gray one with metal brush"?

I will try no crimps to start out with.  Will be using with bolt action....not my AR.

[toteone]

Not signing off on every step of your process, but I will add two things I am certain of.

Before doing anything else, I use a dry media tumbler (with corn cob and polish, and it's at least as shiny as my wet tumbler). Not saying you should switch, but I am saying that this allows me to more easily spot any brass cases that are damaged/unsafe.

For powder, I use RE15, which has produced repeatable, 1/4" groups through my AR15 Performance 223 Wylde barrel. Of course this uses Sierra Tipped King bullets, but the powder is also fantastic and available locally.

The only complaint I know of about RE15 is that it CAN be temperature sensitive. If you live somewhere like Texas, that can have an impact throughout the year. At 300 yards, probably is irrelevant.

What is the twist rate of your barrel?  What grain bullets are you using with RE15 to get such accuracy.  That is awesome.

[Crawl]

69gr TMK

18" 223 Wylde 1:8 Hybrid 5R Rifling SPR 3 Gun Profile, 5/8-24 threads

It's a rifle-length gas system, and I run it with an adjustable gas block (Odin Works), a competition style muzzle brake, and a JP SCS (buffer system). Has the recoil of a 10/22 and the report of a 300 Win Mag (slight exaggeration).

AR15 Performance makes the best barrel, in my opinion. I'm sure you could get better, but I don't want a match grade chamber, I want one that chews through everything.

[Earl Keese]

toteone- you're going to shoot a bolt gun instead of an AR in 3gun? Is there a class for that? I have a buddy that shoots 3gun, but I'm not knowledgeable on the subject. That's why I ask.

[painter]

Regular sizing dies full size.

You'll need a neck sizing die to neck size only.

I don't bump the shoulder on my .223rifle cases that are fireformed in the bolt rifle I'm reloading for. I am using a Lee neck sizing die. I don't know how many loads I can get before I need to bump the shoulder.

I don't crimp .223 rounds for a bolt rifle.

[Wobbly]

A couple questions about your process you presented:

Why did you lube before installing primer, adding power and seating bullet?

You're right. I got stupid. Original post is now modified to move the Lube to be before Sizing.

I have only heard about neck sizing, don't know how to accomplish.  Can I neck size with my Dillon sizing/decapping die?

I used a Lee Neck Sizing Die that worked fairly well. Dillon doesn't make that die.

I need to purchase trimmer.  Not sure what you mean by brushes associated with trimmer unit.  So make sure and get the "gray one with metal brush"?

I said "Bush", not "Brush". The bush is the solid bearing that supports and aligns the spindle.

I will try no crimps to start out with.  Will be using with bolt action....not my AR.

Most all your better bullets heavier than 50gr will have "boat tails". That will make seating so much easier, that a crimp will not be needed to secure the bullet in the neck. The 223 holds the bullet in the neck, just like a 9mm, with a ~0.002" undersized neck. So simply seat to the cannelure, without crimping into the cannelure.

[toteone]

Wobbly, thanks for the corrected info.  I am looking into purchasing trimmer this weekend when I have some more time to research.  I am thinking Lyman trimmer (hopefully they differentiate metal vs plastic bush bearings specs online).  I guess my reading skills and accurate posts need some work....   A brush league misread?

I am planning on using Dillon spray lube since I have a bottle of that was given to me by someone not reloading anymore.  Now I just need to wade thru powder choices.  I am strongly looking at the 55gr FMJ Bobs bulk bullets for starters.

I will also look into Lee neck sizing die.  If you neck size do you still need to lube?

[toteone]

toteone- you're going to shoot a bolt gun instead of an AR in 3gun? Is there a class for that? I have a buddy that shoots 3gun, but I'm not knowledgeable on the subject. That's why I ask.

I am very new to 3gun and don't shoot it near as often as pistol matches ($$), but my weakest skill set is shooting out to 300yds with my AR.  So when I received this new bolt action 223 for birthday, I decided to try it out on a future match.  I think they call the class Manual class, regardless you are still scored with the semis.  The local club I shoot at is pretty ok with whatever equipment you have, not real hard core.  Only about 20 show up at least for the few I attended.  With better and warmer weather on the horizon, I am anxious to get some loads developed for it.  I got tired of timing out on par times with so many misses from my AR at distance.

I know its not the gun, its me...   But since I was given the gun I thought I would give a go.  Had to buy a couple more mags for it for faster reloading.  My shotgun reloading skills need to get better with some extra practice too (only have 5 shell tube)!

I mainly do it for fun (its a blast, pun intended).  Don't expect to rise near the top as I cannot afford it that often.  Just another guy that loves to shoot even if slow and sometimes off target.

[cdhbrad]

Lots of good info on loading for the .223 Rem here:  https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/  The Sierra loading info linked these is helpful too.  As for powders, I like H335 and Varget for bullets in the 55- 69 gr range.  For the rifle you have, your OAL is going to be limited by the length of your magazine so you may be limited as to the bullet weights you can use.     

[painter]

Lots of good info on loading for the .223 Rem here:  https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/  The Sierra loading info linked these is helpful too.  As for powders, I like H335 and Varget for bullets in the 55- 69 gr range.  For the rifle you have, your OAL is going to be limited by the length of your magazine so you may be limited as to the bullet weights you can use.     

He's more likely to be limited by the twist of the barrel.

I didn't see where he specified.

[cdhbrad]

Right.  TC says the Compass in 5.56-223 has a 1 in 9 twist barrel so, according to info at Accurate Shooter, the max recommended would be 73gr.   

[tdogg]

Toteone,

My process for precision long range is the same for my hunting loads which is also the same as my AR loads.  I don't do all the brass prep and sorting for AR loading but the process is the same.  The only difference is that I tumble AR brass twice once prior to sizing/decapping and again after trimming and primer pocket cutting to remove crimp.

1. Bumping the shoulder 0.005" shorter is generous even for an AR.  In a bolt gun I would bump the shoulder 0.002" and for AR loads I'd bump it 0.003".  Sizing lube is the key to being able to hold this small amount of bump.  If you are planning on anything other than imperial sizing lube (best stuff for bottle neck, but a pain to use in bulk) then be prepared for some shoulder spring back.

2.  My order is trim and chamfer mouth and then decrimp.  For precision loading I cut pocket depth and deburr flash hole inside and out.  I use a Wilson  case trimmer with drill attachment from Sinclair, its slow but accurate.

3.  If you wet tumble then the inside neck is clean, you may consider lubing the necks with mica dry lube.  This will help with bullet release upon ignition.
 Probably not needed for your accuracy needs.

4.  The die selection really will dictate accuracy.  Redding Type s bushing sizing dies are really good.  Not needed for AR but for precision loading are worth it.  You can pull out the expander ball and fine tune bullet retention with different bushings (at minimum I'd purchase the carbide sizing ball kit).  I really like Forster seating die with the micrometer.  It's cheaper than the Redding and the dial is bigger and easy to read.  I wouldn't bother with neck sizing at all.  Eventually you will have to full length size and your not gaining much (if anything) by only neck sizing.  For your AR I'd imagine that the Dillon dies you already have are good enough.  I'm not sure what is included in the 4 die set but you only really need the sizer and seater dies.  I can't imagine that you are expanding the mouth to seat bullet are you?  Shouldn't need to if you are.  Crimp is only needed to remove the flare from an expander die.

5.  Powder selection (especially if running on a progressive) will be key.  I get stunning accuracy with Varget out of my AR but it doesn't meter on my progressive very well.  I use CFE 223 for progressive reloading.  It meters like water and is OK in the accuracy department.

I'm sure I'm missing something but out of time.  Good luck and post up any questions.

Cheers,
Toby