Author Topic: Firing Pin Retaining Pins  (Read 3504 times)

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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2019, 06:18:05 AM »
The FPRP needs to be softer than the firing pin to prevent damage to the firing pin (cheapest part wears out/fails first).

Does anyone know if the purpose of the FPRP is two fold?  In other words, is it there to do the Retaining the Firing Pin in the slide job only?  Or is it there to also provide the firing pin with a stop to keep it from protruding to far past the breechface?

If it is only a firing pin retaining pin then the firing pin should be stopped by the combination of firing pin return spring, OD/taper of the firing pin shaft at some point and ID/taper of the firing pin channel in the slide.

If the FPRP is not there to control forward movement of the firing pin then there should be no damage to the FPRP from firing/dry firing - to me it means something is out of wack, a bit.

Some of us have commented about pistols we own that damage FPRP and some that don't.

I realize nothing mass produced is identical.  It can't be.

I don't know what pin is best.  I don't know what the dimensions on all the component parts are but I'll bet they have QC specs with a range from low to high.  We've all seen/heard/read about "tolerance stacking".  That combination of "in specification" parts that when parts near the low or near the high end of the spec. end up installed together can cause function issues, accuracy issues, parts breakage issues, etc.  It happens.  Always has, always will.

I haven't broken one yet.  Seen some that were gouged up.  Replaced several (all??) of mine with CGW pins that were cheap compared to the other parts I bought from them and installed at the same time I installed the other parts.  At some point I may find myself replacing the CGW FPRP.  If I do I'll be taking a closer look at the back side of the slot the FPRP sits in.

Just had another thought.  I wonder what the effects of installing a reduced power firing pin return spring would have on FPRP damage?  Maybe none at all, but consider the effects of replacing parts the factory installed designed to keep your pistol running for thousands of rounds (along with the knowledge that most people who buy a pistol will never shoot that many rounds).  I know I sure don't know what to check (in many cases) to insure the replacement/custom part is going to work perfectly with the factory parts still in my pistols.  Another reason why the little disclaimer on the CGW/CZ Custom web sites advise having a qualified gunsmith install the parts (which most of us, me included, ignore and do it ourselves anyway).

I'll bet the majority of "qualified gunsmiths" aren't well versed in what to look for/consider on CZ's like the guys at CGW/CZ Custom/CZ USA are.

Just some thoughts, right or wrong, I had'em and shared'em on this cold March morning.  With my UG P01 sitting, loaded, in the basket by my chair.  If I didn't trust it, it wouldn't be there.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline blackhillsken

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2019, 07:00:52 AM »
Quote from M1A4ME
"Just had another thought.  I wonder what the effects of installing a reduced power firing pin return spring would have on FPRP damage?"

My thought is none at all as long as the reduced power hammer spring is installed (as recommended by CGW) at the same time.

Reduced power hammer spring causes the hammer to exert less strike force on the firing pin, so without the reduced power firing pin return spring, you may get failure to fire without enough impact to the primer. The lighter firing pin return spring compliments the lighter hammer spring and results in the same stock punch to the primer but with less trigger pull.

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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2019, 07:59:07 AM »
Went to the XD forum after this one earlier this morning.  Saw they have a small thread going (current thread, there are several past threads) on striker retaining pin breakage/replacement.  Pictures of striker retaining pins broken completely into two pieces.

Recommendations on which pins to use/where to get them.  How often to change, them, etc., etc.  Complaints that the factory pins are cheap, etc.
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline blackhillsken

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2019, 08:06:50 AM »
This from my PCR after 250 rounds and about 100 dry fires (without o-ring or snap cap). Totally stock gun.
Really wish I had inspected it when I first got it.
I now use an o-ring for dry fire.

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« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:14:05 AM by blackhillsken »

Offline john seeley

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2019, 10:31:14 AM »
Thanks for the comments. That pin pictured above looks thin. I'm wondering if that's a coiled pin or is it actually two roll pins one inside the other? Because I noticed in the latest CZ 75 Manual diagram they're not showing two roll pins anymore like they showed in previous manuals (2mm roll pin inside a 3mm roll pin.) Now they're showing one coiled pin and not sure how long they've been doing so:


The description for part 57 is "Firing Pin Coiled Pin".  (In previous manuals, it was called "Firing Pin Roll Pin 03"  and "Firing Pin Roll Pin 02".


M1A4ME, thanks for your posts and the reference to the XD Forum thread. I'm reading it now. It's a long thread started in 08. Hopefully that's the current one you're referring to. There's some discussion of using coiled pins vs roll pins. The XD PRP hole has a step in it so the pin doesn't fall down.. Off topic here but I think a stepped pin hole might work better with the CZ 75 extractor pin, instead of having to peen it to prevent it from falling down. Great thread so far.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 02:16:09 PM by john seeley »

Online Psyop96

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2019, 02:01:13 PM »
I?ve always wondered what?s the experience for the Czech Police and what it has in it?s SOP for the D Compact (aka P-01 for the US market) in this respect.

Offline john seeley

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2019, 02:29:53 PM »
I?ve always wondered what?s the experience for the Czech Police and what it has in it?s SOP for the D Compact (aka P-01 for the US market) in this respect.

Yes, it would be interesting to know.

From what I gathered so far, there may be two main culprits to broken/worn FPRPs. 1. Using factory pin, whether there's fault in the pin or the factory pin had dry firing in pre-ownership or at the factory. 2. Dry firing.  The question is, has anyone had issues with replacement pins who had not dry fired? Probably not many?

I wonder how a coiled pin would hold up instead of a roll pin?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 03:53:25 PM by john seeley »

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2019, 02:37:36 PM »
Sorry, John.  I called it the XD Forum, the name is XD Talk.  Here's a link to the latest striker retaining pin thread.  At the bottom of that pager are links to previous threads (I didn't look at any of those).

https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/striker-retaining-roll-pin.442635/#post-7645637
I stopped carrying the SIG 556R.  SIG changed models and couple/three times and stopped supporting it with parts.  So, I stopped supporting SIG.  Back to the tried/true AR15 Carbine.

Offline john seeley

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2019, 02:39:39 PM »
Sorry, John.  I called it the XD Forum, the name is XD Talk.  Here's a link to the latest striker retaining pin thread.  At the bottom of that pager are links to previous threads (I didn't look at any of those).

https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/striker-retaining-roll-pin.442635/#post-7645637

That's the website. Thx.  I'm reading this one now: https://www.xdtalk.com/threads/how-to-replace-an-xd-striker-retainer-pin.61245/page-10

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 02:51:41 PM »
Quote from: Psyop96
I?ve always wondered what?s the experience for the Czech Police and what it has in it?s SOP for the D Compact (aka P-01 for the US market) in this respect.

The Czech Police were the first guinea pigs for the PCR, and that led to a change in the alloy used in the frame when, years ago, there were frame failures.  (I had not kept up with this topic and didn't know that the Czech Police had switched to the P-01/75 D.) The big change there was going from a cast frame in the original PCR to a forged frame in the P-01 and the current PCR aka CZ 75D.   

Police everywhere --  unless they're part of a SWAT team (where the weapon of choice is more likely to be an assault weapon or a sniper rifle than a handgun) or Hostage Rescue Team  -- typically don't fire their weapons all that much.  This seems to be just as true in Europe as it is in the U.S.   Some parts of South and Central America might be different.

Most LEOs view their handguns as weapons of last resort, using other tools such as batons, TASERS, bright lights and chemical sprays first.   Like most LEOs here  in the U.S.,  many LEOs will go an entire career never having to fire their weapon against a bad guy/gal  or armed assailant.   Their experience isn't going to tell us much.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 04:43:16 PM by Walt Sherrill »

Online Psyop96

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2019, 03:16:04 PM »
Quote from: Psyop96
I?ve always wondered what?s the experience for the Czech Police and what it has in it?s SOP for the D Compact (aka P-01 for the US market) in this respect.

The Czech Police were the first guinea pigs for the PCR, and that led to a change in the alloy used in the frame.  And while the P-01s used FORGED alloy rather than cast allow, I doubt change affected durability.   And subsequent efforts to make the P-01 NATO compliant made other subtle production-related changes that apparently didn't affect frame durability, either.

Police everywhere.  unless they're in a something like a SWAT or Hostage Rescue Team -- in which case they'll probably generally be using longer-barreled guns (like an AR), or are members of a shooting team -- typically don't fire their weapons all that much.  This seems to be just as true in Europe as it is in the U.S. 

Most LEOs view their handguns as weapons of last resort, using other tools such as batons, TASERS, bright lights,  chemical sprays first.   Like most LEOs here  in the U.S., many cops will go an entire career never having to use their weapon against a bad-guy or armed assailant.
From what I recall reading in the Pazdera book, Legenda jm?nem CZ, the changes to the P-01 style took place during the trial phases before the adoption by the police. The question is in respect to what is their SOP on dry firing, if any, on their Compact D and experiences with damaged roll pins. If my Czech was better than A-1, I?d ask the local beat cops around my current neighborhood


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Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2019, 04:48:43 PM »
I had to go OUT before making some edit changes to my message, and did so after you replied.  Didn't change much, and that certainly didn't change the gist of either of our comments, but this does explain some minor differences.   I posted the updated response AFTER you had posted.

CZ originally said don't dry fire, and  included a cheap plastic snap cap with their guns.  I've not gotten a newer CZ in many years (except for my P10c), so I don't know what the manual says now -- and I've not downloaded a copy from the CZ-USA site.  I'd be surprised if the Czech Police do more than follow the manual instructions. 

Even if they have some equivalent to the U.S. Army/DoD training manuals, we'd still have to get it translated... :)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 11:27:48 AM by Walt Sherrill »

Online Psyop96

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2019, 02:42:03 AM »
Walt Sherrill...Thanks for the follow up, sir.


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Offline Practical Shooter

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2019, 05:36:24 AM »
Here is an update on the FPRP.
My CZ has 8000 rounds and the roll pin 7000 rounds with as many dry fire practice.


Offline john seeley

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Re: Firing Pin Retaining Pins
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2019, 10:50:03 AM »
Here is an update on the FPRP.
My CZ has 8000 rounds and the roll pin 7000 rounds with as many dry fire practice.



Terrific news. Thanks for the update. And this is the FPRP you bought on Amazon I assume:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Z3WG0T0

How do you clean the Firing Pin chamber and do add lube or leave dry? Thx.

 

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