Firing Pin Retaining Pins

[john seeley]

I'm looking for some Firing Pin Retaining Pins for my PCR as a backup. I'm pretty sure the size is 3mm x 20mm. How does the FPRP available at CGW compare quality-wise to something like this on Ebay which is less expensive?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M1-5-M2-M2-5-M3-M4-Spring-Pins-Split-Tension-Roll-Pin-Black-Zinc-Plated-Steel/292853222877?hash=item442f698ddd:m:mtxkV0GeH_f57rRfvZ8fV9w:rk:9:pf:0

Also, if one dry fires using an O-Ring or Snap caps, about how many rounds will the factory FPRP last? I'm wondering if I even need FPRP backups in this case. Thanks.

[DJK11]

Well they are made in China.  Kind of difficult to judge without a longevity test.

[recoilguy]

I will tell you this, I bought one at the local home repair superstore for .89 and put it in one of my CZ's 2 years ago to see if it would work, still in there and going strong. tried it because I hated paying the shipping CGW charges for the pin. Even if it is made in China it works perfect for me and I use my gun pretty much.

You may not get the same results but I would not be afraid of it at all. The pin may be made in China, but the gun is made in The Czech Republic, I realize CZ is pretty reliable but I would balk at anything made there if it wasn't for this gun brand.

As a back up it will work just fine. IMHO

RCG

[john seeley]

Thanks. I was trying to find USA manufacturers who sell in small lots. It certainly won't cost much to try the China ones. It's like $3.05 for 50 of them (M3x20mm). Also it depends on how often I need a replacement. If often, I'd definitely try the cheap ones. If once in a great while, I might buy one of the CGW ones.

EDIT:  I inquired about the Chinese pins on Ebay. They are made out of 65Mn (65 manganese) steel. I think that's a bit too brittle because of the medium-high carbon content which is around 0.6-0.7% carbon.

[Hooligan]

I installed the CGW Ultra-lite kit in an SP-01 after about 600 round (and a few hundred snap-cappings, too).  I was surprised just how battered that original pin was- not near failure or anything, but still beat.  I haven't seen what the CGW pins looks like on any of the 3 CZ's I own and have the pin installed, so I can't testify personally as to how much better they hold up, but there are a lot of experts here that can and have given their seal of approval.

On the Chinese ones, you may not get the same quality pin as recoilguy.  The way I look at it, shooting isn't a cheap sport, CZ's are not cheap firearms, and the price of the CGW pins to me is inexpensive insurance in a known quality part/manufacturer.

[john seeley]

I installed the CGW Ultra-lite kit in an SP-01 after about 600 round (and a few hundred snap-cappings, too).  I was surprised just how battered that original pin was- not near failure or anything, but still beat. 

So after 600 rounds, the factory FPRP was a bit damaged? And you didn't do any dry-firing without snap caps or without an o-ring? I guess an o-ring protects the FPRP a bit more than snap caps? Thx.

EDIT:  Sorry. You already said it was the original FPRP. I better pick-up more than a few then.

[recoilguy]

I have shot CZ handguns for over 15 years now. I shoot them with crazy regularity. I have one with at least 50,000 rounds through it. I have replaced the pin in that one - one time because it looked like it would need it sometime in the near future, not because it failed. My other CZ's - I have replaced only one pin because I had some laying around after I bought them at the Super Store. (Menards) and wanted to practice doing it. I have one extra pin now in each of my CZ guns case and I am pretty sure it will be great to have them if I ever need it but I am pretty sure they will grow very old before I ever use them.

RCG

[john seeley]

Thanks RCG for the information.

To add:

What type of steel makes the best roll pin or FPRP? Medium carbon? My guess is high carbon steel is hard but too brittle for FPRPs and stainless and low carbon would be too soft?

I just found a post by Practical Shooter who mentioned to look for pins with Medium Carbon steel: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=99464.msg767310#msg767310

[Underwhere]

I have pulled pins out of brand new guns and they have been significantly marred by just the factory dry firing or maybe employees handling the gun.

I don't trust CZ's pins.

With an O-ring the firing pin doesn't get hit so it would in theory prevent the retaining pin from ever needing replacement.

Personally I would order from CGW once. Order a bunch of them. Pick up nice parts while you are at it.

If that pin fails you'll be in a jam. How mad would you be if it failed at an inopportune moment and you didn't know or didn't trust an ebay seller with their description.

[john seeley]

Personally I would order from CGW once. Order a bunch of them. Pick up nice parts while you are at it.

You mean to save on shipping? Makes sense. I definitely need a couple of front sight pins and fiber optic inserts. Can't think of any other parts... I'm not into customizing yet beyond sights/grips since I'm still kind of new to guns. The CGW FPRPs have a good reputation of lasting but I wish I knew where they get em from.

[M1A4ME]

CGW ships so fast you won't believe it.  I've ordered on a Thursday and gotten my stuff on Monday.  If you order early enough in the morning you'll usually get an e-mail back that afternoon saying your order is shipping.

I will add to the suggestion/advice that you should look through the parts list and order spare springs, pins, parts.  I do that anytime I order small parts from CGW.  Got a couple divider boxes (fishing lure boxes) of spare CZ parts but we've got a lot of CZ's (me, the wife, the boys).  Haven't broken anything yet but if we do there's a good chance I've got the parts.

[Underwhere]

CGW ships so fast you won't believe it.  I've ordered on a Thursday and gotten my stuff on Monday.  If you order early enough in the morning you'll usually get an e-mail back that afternoon saying your order is shipping.

I will add to the suggestion/advice that you should look through the parts list and order spare springs, pins, parts.  I do that anytime I order small parts from CGW.  Got a couple divider boxes (fishing lure boxes) of spare CZ parts but we've got a lot of CZ's (me, the wife, the boys).  Haven't broken anything yet but if we do there's a good chance I've got the parts.

Thursday to Saturday for me. I think if you order before 1pm or around there.

I do the same thing. Baggies of some spare parts. Also some baggies of spare modifications just in case I acquire a new gun and already want to mod it.

[M1A4ME]

Yeah, I should have mentioned I live in central Virginia.  Not sure how many miles it is but it's a long ways.

[Walt Sherrill]

Back when they were first introduced many years ago, I had a CZ-40B;  I was  one of the folks who didn't believe that dry-firing would harm a 75B's firing pin retention roll pin.  I had dry-fired a number of CZs many, many times without problems.

When I first got the 40B, I started dry-firing to speed break-in, and broke the FPRRP very quickly (after hundreds, not thousands of dry fires and a modest number of live rounds fired).  When that happened, I went to a nearby hardware store and picked up a roll pin, cut it to length (with my handy Dremel), and never had another problem -- but I kept a spare roll pin (already cut to length) on hand as a backup.

CZ later started "doubling" up the roll pins at the factory, with a smaller pin inside the large pin -- but I never bought a NEW CZ by then -- always going the "used" route, so I never saw a double roll pin -- and I started using snap caps.   

I believe CZ went to the roll pin rather than a firing pin stop plate to save production costs, but I'd rather have the firing pin stop plate (as is found in the 85 Combat, which I also have.)

Another forum member, back then (early 2000s) modified the firing pin itself, lengthening the indentation/cut on the top of the firing pin so that it wouldn't hit the stop when slammed by the hammer (but still held the firing pin in the slide)  That seemed to work, too. 

(This has been a topic of discussion on the forum here since my return (after years of absence), and I continue to question whether the firing pin modification might be a better solution.  Nobody who knows a lot about the design and the likely effectiveness or drawbacks of the firing pin modification has ever commented.)

PS:  I should have mentioned this when I first made this response, but the 40B and the 75B are, in terms of how they function, and parts interchangeability, are almost identical.  The slides aren't interchangeable, but how the guns function is almost identical, and the designs are very, very similar.  That the 40B busted a firng pin retention roll pin so quickly made me a believer.

[M1A4ME]

Walt, I've wondered that, too - extending the cut in the firing pin for the firing pin retainer farther to the rear so that the firing pin retaining pin does not act as the stop for forward movement.

Just haven't ever been bored long enough to jump into some disassembly, Dremel work, reassembly and lots of dry firing to see if it works.  It should, but me thinking it and it being correct don't always go hand in hand.