Dillon 1050 primer issues

[Clint007]

I'm asking this here...and not on a Dillon forum or Brian Enos or such... because I know some of you guys have forgotten more about how the 1050 works than I will ever know.  Those forums sometimes are useful but usually the folks that reply and state things the most confidently actually know less than I do about the presses. most replies are not pointedly useful.

Recently I have 1/100 primers 'jam' at the primer station. It locks the press up, and I have to remove the tab to extract a typically torn or fragmented or angled primer from the primer slide or pocket. I've cleaned the system, replaced the blue tip, experimented with various tensions of the threaded knob atop the primer tube, and with a weight atop the plastic rod, ensured the bushing and primer top are flush etc, etc etc.  My primer height is consistently fine...although I will note that about a year back I had to dial down that primer system tappet because my primers were starting to be too proud. I think I actually posted here about that. I wondered if something had 'worn' down between the tappet and the primer punch (with that rocker arm connecting them).... I called Dillon twice and uncharacteristically got useless advice which I won't waste your time with sharing.

When I pulled it up, the primer punch tip is slightly rounded, not flat. Is that normal? I don't remember consciously noting its appearance previously. The bushing looks like new. The slide moves back and form without catching.

I'm poised to just replace that punch and the spring because those parts are fairly cheap and it's easy to do.  I was wondering if somehow the punch tip had worn and was not presenting the primers properly into the case primer pocket. I ran about 50 cycles without a case, removing the primer each cycle (as suggested by Dillon on some on-line troubleshooting advice) to allow the next one to cycle, in case it was some tolerance stacking phenom involving primers and a worn punch tip.

Wondered what else could be the cause for this. Again this was not a consistent problem until just the past couple months. Any insight would be welcome.

C

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I do not have a Dillon but I do have friends who do. I have to ask WHY? have you not called Dillon directly? They will send you what ever is necessary to keep your press working at it's absolute best.

[snakeye]

I do not have a Dillon but I do have friends who do. I have to ask WHY? have you not called Dillon directly? They will send you what ever is necessary to keep your press working at it's absolute best.

The OP said he called Dillon twice and did not get very good advice

[Clint007]

Dillon suggested I had bad primers...which really didn?t make sense since it occurred with three different brand primers.

I am going to replace the primer punch, and the primer tube (maybe it?s bent I dunno), clean everything again, and see if I can figure out why this is happening...

I might try to find someone else at Dillon next time....

C

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I do not have a Dillon but I do have friends who do. I have to ask WHY? have you not called Dillon directly? They will send you what ever is necessary to keep your press working at it's absolute best.

The OP said he called Dillon twice and did not get very good advice

Sorry missed that. Very strange for them to be of no help. Everyone I know who's had an issue has been completely satisfied.

[Dan_69GTX]

Clint, just a thought.....I see you are in Scottsdale.  Maybe you could take your parts off and go over to Dillon and compare them with new parts before purchase?

I've been wanting to look a the 1050s or maybe their new version.  When I was in Gilbert in December I went to CZ custom, but never thought of going to the Dillon store and looking at things.  No one anywhere around me stocks any reloading machines but for 1 Lee press.


Please update to let us know what you find out.

[Wobbly]

I don't know diddly about the 1050...  but I used to play one on TV. 

So from what you've said, this is what I understand ...
? Some few primers are be seated into the primer pockets at various angles.
? The face of the primer ram has a rounded appearance.
? The primer ram has a height adjustment.

? I believe the mal-seated primers are simply a symptom. The primer probably sits on top of the rounded primer ram and teeter-totters. In most situations the primer pocket is able to guide the primer straight in, but on 1 of 100 there is a miniature burr on either the primer or pocket that prevents this.

? The face of the primer ram MUST be flat to make the primer head in straight. So the rounded primer ram is the cause of the poorly angled and seated primer, but it did not get that way by itself. So it is a cause, but it is also a symptom. So it is not the Root Cause.

? The weighted primer feed is only needed if there are gaps in the primer feeding sequence. Weight helps the primers consistently exit of the primer feed tube. You did not report gaps in the primer feeding, so your primer feed tubes are not bent, and your weight is sufficient as is. Your primer feed tube, fed lips, and other parts that make the primer exit the feed tube are all working properly.

(In order to answer this next part clearly I watched this video:THIS VIDEO
...at minute 14:30 the process is almost clearly shown. Note that I did not wait on my "1050 Expert" certificate to arrive before answering, but YouTube assured me it's in the mail.  )

? In order to become rounded, the face of the primer ram must be hitting against one of the surfaces internal to the primer feed mechanism, probably the bottom of the primer shuttle. Dragging causes the rounding, then rounding causes the mis-aligned primers. The primer ram is free to rotate inside its holder, so as the ram experiences this interference against one tiny area, it spins inside the ram guide, thereby presenting a different edge to the "area of rubbing" each time the primer shuttle goes back and forth. In this way, rubbing on the leading edge of the primer ram is causing the "rounding" of the ram over hundreds of operations.


Check that sequence out. You'll probably need light and magnification to see it clearly. Even then you might need to use the Sharpie Marker trick to detect areas of rubbing. If you remove the primer shuttle, I'm sure you'll see evidence of dragging on the bottom side.

 

[Clint007]

Wobbly,

Now that's what I was looking for..thoughts from a Jedi Master of Reloading.  Thank you.

Since my family is out of town for a few days I could devote some time to this without being labelled an obsessive.

Last night after work I swung by the Dillon shop and talked to a third person....who had nothing really to add. I, too, have generally had good luck there with tech support. Perhaps they have the B team folks manning the phones while they scurry with the impending roll-out of the latest 1050 iteration, now dubbed the 1100. It's not ready yet, I hear, and there isn't even a model on the showroom floor yet. It's a 1050 with upgrades, basically...not a new redesigned press.

The other issue, I will be honest about, is when I tell them I have automated the press, they have in the past basically stopped talking to me, telling me that's the problem. I understand their concerns...so I wait awhile and call back and hope for a new person or that they don't remember my voice. Because while the automation for sure enhances any issues, there still has to be something about the press mechanics causing this problem since it's new.

SO, I bought a new primer tube, a new primer punch, and primer punch spring.  I tore down the machine and thoroughly cleaned it, lubricated all the parts, and reassembled everything.  Wobbly, I did not think to inspect the undersurface of the shuttle critically but will do that when I get home tonight.   I will say I recall there being some wear marks on all surfaces of the shuttle but didn't think to line them up with the location of the primer punch...that's a great thought.  As for the primer punch, it was very worn on the end. Rounded, some flat edges...clearly 250k rounds in 8 years  is too much for one primer punch.  I have no doubt the automation with the Mark 7 contributes to enhanced wear. So in goes the new one, with a new spring.

After reassembly, the same problem persists. There is no primer in about 5% of rounds. In some but not all cases a primer jams the press, being incompletely placed in the slide cup and catching on the shell plate or retention tab....but I don't know if the origin of that is the primer not dropping right into the cup or being distorted somehow after that.

Again, this is now occurring after going a couple years (50-75k rounds) without any problems at all, really. So it's not 'normal' for an automated 1050.

I have a few other forums I can ask, but I appreciate your help!

C

[Dan_69GTX]

Food for thought

When slowly operating the press, can you peer down into the hole where the primer tube would be and see if the slide always goes back far enough for a primer to drop down into?

Another potential, using a gun cleaning kit, run a dry slowly down the primer tube, does it catch on anything?  If not, using the gun cleaning kit, clean the inside of the tube.  I had problems with primer feed before and it ended up the primers wouldn't slide down the tube properly - even with an empty shell placed on the rod that goes on top of the primers.

[Clint007]

Dan,

thanks for the ideas. The primer tube is now new and very clean. New blue tip. I can't really look down the tube during primer slide/shuttle motion, my press is atop a high bench, plus it's intermittent.  I did run the press very slow without a case and plucked the presented primer off each cycle...a new primer appears each new cycle. But this is slow (so I can remove the primer) and perhaps it's the speed that is the problem....

On Brian Enos, I just found some threads on other possibilities which I'll explore tonight. One is slight overtravel of the slide back (to accept a new primer).  There is a stop that might be ever so slightly off...if the slide goes back just a little TOO far, the primer might not drop clean into the cup and explain this issue.  And this is the kind of thing that would logically be worse with greater speeds.

The 1050, being a complex machine, is temperamental. One little issue over there can cause problems over here and it takes awhile to sort out. I've been through this a dozen times in 10 years to some degree, but this one has been the most frustrating in awhile.

Thinking of buying a Mark 7 Evolution, but I just worry that it'll take me 4 months to sort out THAT press's idiosyncrasies....

C

[Dan_69GTX]

Thanks for the update.

hmmm  didn't think of overtravel being the problem - I was more thinking undertravel..  Cool - learned something!

[Wobbly]

More thoughts...

? Even though the new parts are all assembled, you can still use a Sharpie Marker to color the top of the primer ram. If there is any dragging, the color will be scuffed. You can adjust the ram height until there is no scuffing.

? And too, I think Dan is on to something. The primer shuttle has to come back enough for the primer to drop. Because the press is automated (which means it doesn't wait at that position) it has to withdraw (move into the drop position) ever so slightly MORE than it normally would.

- This is a common issue on the 550 which uses a very similar primer feed system. The 550 shuttle is pulled back by a flexible arm, but it's ultimate travel is limited by a screw/lock nut adjuster.
- Also, on the bottom of the 550's internal primer feed tube is a brightly colored plastic part that adds a slight friction to the primer column drop. This plastic part needs to be replaced every 50,000 primers or so, because as primers go through, the plastic "fingers" get worn and damaged. If you've simply been filling Small Pistol Primers over and over, you may have never seen the bottom of the primer tube that's inside the machine. Unscrew the knurled cap that's under the blue primer alarm, and you'll see the aluminum primer tube inside the black outer tube. The part I'm describing is on the bottom of that aluminum tube.

Looks like the blue part here...

[Wobbly]

Thinking of buying a Mark 7 Evolution, but I just worry that it'll take me 4 months to sort out THAT press's idiosyncrasies....

Clint -
As your friend, you know I always have a ready $50 waiting buy that old, worn out 1050. I can do the 'dirty work' and haul it off the premises so that you won't be forced to have that hurtful and unpleasant reminder simply lingering in your "safe space".

 

[Clint007]

Wobbly, you've been of great help to me over the past 10 years on this forum.   I started out a newb loader and now consider myself safe and competent, if not Jedi Master level. You and the other wise men here on this site are the main reason.

I'd be happy to sell you (or any of them) my well used but well maintained and upgraded 1050 at a screaming deal...but not quite for $50!

C

[Clint007]

I have pulled that primer tube often and replaced the tip every 20-30k rounds routinely. And I replaced the tube and the tip again (I have spares as I have a 550b and it uses the same tube and tip).
That doesn't look to be the issue...

C