Author Topic: P10c shooting high?  (Read 4746 times)

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Offline Msc7b2

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P10c shooting high?
« on: June 04, 2019, 02:21:43 PM »
Recently took my p10c to the range.  Seems like I seem to be shooting somewhat high.  I usually line up my target and sights to a combat hold.  But if I line up the cz sights like my other pistols, Seems to shoot high.  If I line up the target and sights to a 6oclock hold, seems to be better.  Has anyone else had a similar experience with their p10c?


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Offline Wobbly

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 03:26:43 PM »
? Up-down shot placement is related many things, but most often to the recoil of the ammo. Higher power "self defense" ammo starts the recoil sooner, so there is slightly more 'muzzle flip' before the bullet exits the barrel. It's only fractions, but you can see it on the target.

Try a different brand of ammo, and/or a different bullet weight.

This is one of the "features" you can "dial in" if you reload.

? Secondly, the way the human eye works, you need a very small point to aim at. So it could be simply the size of your target. I keep a black, wide tip marker in my range bag and use it to draw 3/4" black bullseyes. I've also used black target "pasties" from action pistol matches. The point is, you need something small and finite. So small and densely black that you cannot discern the difference between a combat and 6 o'clock hold; there's only THE hold.

You generally cannot buy this type target at indoor ranges.

"Man targets" are great for that type shooting, but are useless for accuracy or POI testing. When you finish with your man target, flip it over and start drawing those black dots.

 ;)
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Offline Vex001

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 12:56:57 PM »
? Up-down shot placement is related many things, but most often to the recoil of the ammo. Higher power "self defense" ammo starts the recoil sooner, so there is slightly more 'muzzle flip' before the bullet exits the barrel. It's only fractions, but you can see it on the target.


Do you have any type of evidence on this? Typically the muzzle isn't affected until the round has cleared the chamber. There's a lot of super slow mo footage to confirm this.

Also I don't believe the P10C sights are set as a combat hold, meaning the dot placed ON what you want to hit. It's the standard target on top where the tip of the front post will be your impact point. Yardage will make a difference as well.

Offline Msc7b2

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 01:40:51 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I was shooting from 15 yards.   I think I'll just have to adjust the way I line up my target with my sights with the p10c.  Also realized I should have checked what the factory tested to confirm.


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Offline Wobbly

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 05:23:23 PM »
Do you have any type of evidence on this? Typically the muzzle isn't affected until the round has cleared the chamber. There's a lot of super slow mo footage to confirm this.

The bore axis isn't in-line with the shooter's arm. Therefore the "opposite but equal" forces caused by the bullet's movement creates a "couple", and thus the muzzle flip. The resulting barrel rise doesn't have to be any more than 1/4mm to show up as 2 or 2.5" on a target that's several yards away. So I'm not surprised it doesn't show up in videos. Do the math. 1 inch rise at 7yds only takes 0.22? change in barrel angle. 1 inch rise at 15yds only takes a change in barrel angle of 0.10?. That's 1/10 of 1? of angle.

We've done testing with this on the Ammo Forum here. Same target, same shooter, same gun, same day... different ammo will strike the target in different places in a vertical line.

Also note the OP didn't say what ammo he was shooting or the size of his bulls-eye.

 ;)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 04:45:54 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline Msc7b2

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 01:34:29 AM »
Here is my factory test shots.  Seems like the shooter is experiencing the same thing.  I was shooting freedom munitions 115gr.  Any ideas?  Could I get a new taller front sight?




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Offline Hamilton99

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 02:57:10 AM »
My P09 with stock tritium sights shooting low, POI was on lower half of standart sport target, distance was 82ft. If I aim on the top of black, POI was in 9 or 10. I change front sight from 5.50mm to 5.25mm and now I aim straight center. My friends P10c also shooting high when he`s aiming on the center, so he aim below the target (he only shooting on 82ft in competition) .
SP01, P09, P10SC, 457 22lr, IMI Galil 5.56, Alfa 2261 22lr, Maverick....

Offline WxGuy

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 07:30:05 AM »
Yes, shooting high like that will require a slightly higher front sight keeping the rear sight the same.  Good luck.
I have a pistol that was doing the same thing and that is how it was fixed.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 07:49:19 AM by WxGuy »

Offline Msc7b2

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 11:54:13 AM »
Yes, shooting high like that will require a slightly higher front sight keeping the rear sight the same.  Good luck.
I have a pistol that was doing the same thing and that is how it was fixed.

Can I ask how tall of a sight you got? I'm looking at the Dawson precision fiber optic front sights


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Offline Vex001

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 02:55:05 PM »
Do you have any type of evidence on this? Typically the muzzle isn't affected until the round has cleared the chamber. There's a lot of super slow mo footage to confirm this.

The bore axis isn't in-line with the shooter's arm. Therefore the "opposite but equal" forces caused by the bullet's movement creates a "couple", and thus the muzzle flip. The resulting barrel rise doesn't have to be any more than 1/4mm to show up as 2 or 2.5" on a target that's several yards away. So I'm not surprised it doesn't show up in videos. Do the math. 1 inch rise at 7yds only takes 0.22? change in barrel angle. 1 inch rise at 15yds only takes a change in barrel angle of 0.10?. That's 1/10 of 1? of angle.

We've done testing with this on the Ammo Forum here. Same target, same shooter, same gun, same day... different ammo will strike the target in different places in a vertical line.

Also note the OP didn't say what ammo he was shooting or the size of his bulls-eye.

 ;)

I understand the theory but it's hard to get on board with that seeing this footage. Look at this video at 1:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y9apnbI6GA

You can see that the barrel doesn't even begin to move until the bullet has cleared it. There's plenty of footage just like this.

Now obviously I'm not doubting the results. I know that different ammo flies differently but I don't believe it's as a result of varying bore axis between platforms.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 06:13:46 PM »
You can see that the barrel doesn't even begin to move until the bullet has cleared it. There's plenty of footage just like this.

And all I'm saying that you can't see 1/10 of 1? angular change. You can barely measure it.
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Offline dwhitehorne

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 08:27:56 PM »
I've had 4 P10C pistols.  Still have two.  All of them are 6 o'clock hold for me shooting 147 grain ammo.  Works great for shooting steel.  David 

Offline Vex001

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2019, 12:59:25 AM »
You can see that the barrel doesn't even begin to move until the bullet has cleared it. There's plenty of footage just like this.

And all I'm saying that you can't see 1/10 of 1? angular change. You can barely measure it.
I see what you're saying and after looking into it a little more, I now agree. Lot of physics at play in that little fraction of a second.  ;D

Offline Wobbly

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2019, 07:40:23 PM »
I see what you're saying and after looking into it a little more, I now agree. Lot of physics at play in that little fraction of a second.  ;D

And after all that explanation, I can see from the proof target that the gun probably does need a different front sight.

All the best.  ;)
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Offline Msc7b2

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Re: P10c shooting high?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 03:03:40 PM »
Actually, does anyone know what the OEM front blade height is? The front sight on my p10c says 2 on it.


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