Why the anti-gunners will ultimately win

[Vinny]

Nope no way not buying that at all. We have 20,000 gun laws on the books that are not being properly enforced already.Tired of hearing this crap "common sense" approach as well. That's the rhetoric of the anti gunners in that everything they propose is "common sense" and if you disagree you are unreasonable.
The common sense approach is just another way of chipping away at our rights bit by little bit.
FACT: Every criminal who wants a gun right now has one.
FACT: Nothing anyone has proposed will prevent the next looney tune from carrying out mayhem.
FACT: Nothing we concede to will prevent bad people from doing bad things and we'll only lose more of our hard fought freedom.
There is just nothing we can agree to that will ever stop the anti's. We could all dump our legally owned AR's in the smelter today and it would not appease them in the least. Next week they'll be back for more.

Can't say I disagree, but...have you read Florida Senate Bill 7026?
It's not the anti-gunners who I'm worried about, it's the Moms and Dads and Grandparents who VOTE that just want our schools safe, and if we don't propose a good way to do that, we will lose by default.  Just Say'in

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Nope no way not buying that at all. We have 20,000 gun laws on the books that are not being properly enforced already.Tired of hearing this crap "common sense" approach as well. That's the rhetoric of the anti gunners in that everything they propose is "common sense" and if you disagree you are unreasonable.
The common sense approach is just another way of chipping away at our rights bit by little bit.
FACT: Every criminal who wants a gun right now has one.
FACT: Nothing anyone has proposed will prevent the next looney tune from carrying out mayhem.
FACT: Nothing we concede to will prevent bad people from doing bad things and we'll only lose more of our hard fought freedom.
There is just nothing we can agree to that will ever stop the anti's. We could all dump our legally owned AR's in the smelter today and it would not appease them in the least. Next week they'll be back for more.

Can't say I disagree, but...have you read Florida Senate Bill 7026?
It's not the anti-gunners who I'm worried about, it's the Moms and Dads and Grandparents who VOTE that just want our schools safe, and if we don't propose a good way to do that, we will lose by default.  Just Say'in

Absolutely! I support legislation that overhauls our FAILED public school system that has been turning out a defective product for more than 40 years now and steps to address the mental health issues that are causing some of these young people to go around the bend. Till we start teaching kids again what they need to know to make it in this world coupled with proper history and purpose of the United States of America nothing will change. If we don't do this the country as a whole will be lost in short order.

[canthelpit]

 I think one issue that we're dealing with here is really a demographic question.  In say, the 1920's, a much larger percentage of the population lived in rural areas,
and so had more exposure to folks that owned firearms or hunted.  Even rural folks that don't own guns know friends or relatives that do, and tend to realize that
gun ownership by law abiding people is perfectly OK.  Today, a much higher percentage of the population lives in cities, and are completely ignorant about firearms.
You can't really blame them: they typically don't have any positive exposure to them, they often don't know anyone that owns them, and in the urban world they
live in, the only people that seem to have them are the police, or criminals.  While it's important to resist stupid gun laws, I think gun owners also need to present
responsible firearms ownership in a positive light, and help educate people who view gun ownership as aberrant.  If the public simply views gun owners as negative
and obstructionist, we'll never win anything.

I had an interesting conversation with a (urban) neighbor of mine a few years ago.  Somehow in a conversation, I mentioned I had gone bird hunting.  She basically told me
that my killing birds was immoral.  So, I asked her if she ate meat, and she answered yes.  I (carefully, and politely) pointed out to her that when she bought meat
from the store, she was paying someone else to do the killing for her, and that by buying meat, she was in part responsible for the death of the animal.  This might seem
obvious, but she had never even thought about it.  To her credit, she didn't push back and she did think about it.  We can rant about how folks like this are stupid, or
we can try to educate them.

[Ma}{imus]

Folks like that are still stupid though.

Usually willfully stupid.

Classic example of why reasonable discussions are near impossible these days. Uninformed does not equal stupid. Diving in head first and calling people names and labeling them as morons, idiots, stupid, etc. does absolutely nothing to help inform, educate, and pursuade.

I suppose I'm old fashioned and not hip to outrage culture that is so en vogue these days. Unless both sides of this issue can figure out how set aside their emotions and ad hominem attacks, we are heading down a dangerous path. If worse comes to worse, I have my contingency plan. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I've never been known to sugar coat anything.  I'm honest to a fault.

I'm thinking of other definitions that might fit better, but I am drawing blanks.

Any grown adult that doesn't know that the meat they buy from the store or restaurant was once alive, is stupid and their parents failed miserably.

This is correct. These people can't be reasoned with and they reject just about any opinion that doesn't mesh with what they've been spoon fed. These are the same people who brought about lawn mowers that shut off when you let go of the handle because they were far too stupid to understand if you stick your hand under there while it's running you will lose it. They are the same kind of morons that forget their kids are in the back seat and now we will have yet another annoying auto safety feature called the backseat alarm.

[aflevine]

Someone's political perspective has nothing to do with their intelligence  People think in terms of "frames."  Dr. George Lakoff is considered the father of "framing."  Think of frames as complete concepts that encompass one or more linked idea, associated values, and how you feel.  A great digestible book on the subject is "Don't Think of an Elephant."  There are also some great YouTubes.  One important outcome of his research is that when people are faced with facts that contradict their frames, they will reject the facts.  This is true for everyone.  Frames are intentionally established and reinforced by our politicians, captive political media, and social networks.  The more you hear a frame, the more likely you are to believe it's true.  This is why gaslighting works.  If you can control someone's frames, then you can literally control how they think. 

Because of mainstream media segmentation by audience and the corrupt intentions of their owners, too many people are intentionally locked into a set of frames and incapable of discerning fact from lies and propaganda.

[the war wagon]

ANTI-gunners ALWAYS over-reach.  And it's always left to a few brave souls, to PROPERLY put them back in their place...

[Old-Duckman]

I read this quotation for the first time this morning, it was quoted in an article about globalism, here is the quote:

 “When an opponent declares, ‘I will not come over to your side,’ I calmly say, ‘Your child belongs to us already. You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.”

It seems to speak directly to what we are discussing here. The quote is from none other than Adolph Hitler... His spirit still lives and is active in our country today.

[canthelpit]

I've never been known to sugar coat anything.  I'm honest to a fault.

I'm thinking of other definitions that might fit better, but I am drawing blanks.

Any grown adult that doesn't know that the meat they buy from the store or restaurant was once alive, is stupid and their parents failed miserably.

I'm sure that my neighbor was perfectly aware that her meat comes from animals that were once alive.  What she hadn't done was make the connection
between the responsibility of a hunter for the game they kill and her responsibility for the meat she bought.  This is probably because there was never a reason
for her to think about it: she's lived in a city all her life and may have never spoken to, or even knew someone who hunts.  She was probably simply
parroting back something she heard someone else say, or at least expressing, without thinking about it her general distaste for the idea of hunting.  That's OK:
most people don't think much about subjects that don't interest them and she was obviously not interested in hunting.

The point of the post was that by the end of the conversation, she had thought about it some.  I never talked with her again about hunting, and don't know what her
conclusions were, but I think she realized that there is more to the subject of hunting than she had assumed.  That, in my view was a win.
I could have been rude, or suggested she was stupid, which could have been emotionally satisfying for about 15 seconds, but it certainly wouldn't have improved her opinion
about hunters and hunting.  And, since she and her husband lived across the street and were nice folks, it would have ruined our relationship as neighbors.  That would
have been a loss.

Being honest is important, but increasingly, people seem to think that honesty = rudeness and an inability to communicate in a reasonable fashion.  That might feel good,
but it isn't going to help us win in the long run. 

[canthelpit]

It's no problem: they moved out of their house, and then we did.  But, I honestly don't think that would have been a problem.  She didn't seem
upset when she found out I own guns. 

One of the other neighbors, that was a different story...

[Ruber]

IMHO, gun rights need to be distanced from other political hot topic issues.  One thing that bothered me was NRAtv spewing very xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and sexist rhetoric because it appeased the far right.  Alienating people based on how they look is not going to win friends.  That winds up being how people view the gun community and hating us all, rightfully so..  Nratv has changed somewhat, though I don’t know if it is too little too late.

I see that here at times too.  We need to be able to drop the antagonistic speech and reach out to a newer, younger community.  Education is a powerful tool, but everyone needs to be listening and communicating.

[armoredman]

IMHO, gun rights need to be distanced from other political hot topic issues.  One thing that bothered me was NRAtv spewing very xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and sexist rhetoric because it appeased the far right.  Alienating people based on how they look is not going to win friends.  That winds up being how people view the gun community and hating us all, rightfully so..  Nratv has changed somewhat, though I don’t know if it is too little too late.

I see that here at times too.  We need to be able to drop the antagonistic speech and reach out to a newer, younger community.  Education is a powerful tool, but everyone needs to be listening and communicating.

Whoa..I watched quite a bit of NRAtv clips and never saw ANYTHING of what you say - please provide cites and examples.We'll drop the "antagonistic" speech to those who we elect when Maxine Waters quits telling people to push conservatives out physically, when Nancy Pelosi quits telling her people to punch people in the face, when Joe Biden quits telling people he'd like to beat up the President, when Madonna apologizes for wanting to blow up the White House, when Rosie O'Donnell apologizes for stating anyone owning a gun should go to jail while hiring armed guards for her family, etc., etc., ad nauseum, including that odious little stain Hogg and his continuous foul mouthed lies.
No, sir, that reads like a Leftist talking point, not buying it one bit.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

IMHO, gun rights need to be distanced from other political hot topic issues.  One thing that bothered me was NRAtv spewing very xenophobic, homophobic, racist, and sexist rhetoric because it appeased the far right.  Alienating people based on how they look is not going to win friends.  That winds up being how people view the gun community and hating us all, rightfully so..  Nratv has changed somewhat, though I don’t know if it is too little too late.

I see that here at times too.  We need to be able to drop the antagonistic speech and reach out to a newer, younger community.  Education is a powerful tool, but everyone needs to be listening and communicating.

Whoa..I watched quite a bit of NRAtv clips and never saw ANYTHING of what you say - please provide cites and examples.We'll drop the "antagonistic" speech to those who we elect when Maxine Waters quits telling people to push conservatives out physically, when Nancy Pelosi quits telling her people to punch people in the face, when Joe Biden quits telling people he'd like to beat up the President, when Madonna apologizes for wanting to blow up the White House, when Rosie O'Donnell apologizes for stating anyone owning a gun should go to jail while hiring armed guards for her family, etc., etc., ad nauseum, including that odious little stain Hogg and his continuous foul mouthed lies.
No, sir, that reads like a Leftist talking point, not buying it one bit.

I agree I have never seen or heard any such language coming from the NRA or any other mainstream gun lobby for that matter. Any rhetoric I've experienced has been positive and inclusive for all.

[Ruber]

Politics is very tit for tat, with extremes on both sides profiting on the “we’ll back down when they do” mentality.

As an example, recently a couple cases came out of Alabama that impacted civil rights, one on race the other on women’s rights.  Both heralded by NRAtv.  The response in California was for the legislature to go into an extra session and come push through three new gun regulations/fees.

Regardless of how anyone feels about those cases, why even mention them on a gun rights advocacy network.

[larryflew]

Ditto on not seeing it on the NRA vids.