Author Topic: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.  (Read 3939 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jokester945

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #105 on: October 08, 2019, 03:56:05 PM »
So anyway, once I get the sear back in and try everything it should function without a problem. I don't think I'll do the PCR though, however I would love a long slide and barrel for the 75BD.

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #106 on: October 08, 2019, 04:57:21 PM »
I hope it works out for you. It appears you did everything right.
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline Underwhere

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #107 on: October 08, 2019, 09:42:41 PM »
So anyway, once I get the sear back in and try everything it should function without a problem. I don't think I'll do the PCR though, however I would love a long slide and barrel for the 75BD.

Did you get your trigger bar support spring in place and verify it's correct?

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #108 on: October 09, 2019, 11:41:35 AM »
This morning, I pulled out the digital luggage scale to check the SA and DA pull weight on this third install. The SA is ~2.8-3.0 and DA is ~7.8-8.0lbs. I did adjust the trigger bar spring to reduce some of the grittiness that, on rare occasion, slowed and almost stopped the trigger return if you let off the trigger very very slowly. That worked out well.  This was not necessary on my other two installs since they were both pretty smooth to begin with. I hope to get to the range later today and run off a couple hundred rounds.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 11:49:36 AM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #109 on: October 09, 2019, 07:10:48 PM »
Back from the range after running 100rds S&B and 100 Magtech with no hiccups. The primer hits look like the other two kits that were pictured earlier in the thread. Even though each CZ75b is unique to it's birth date, the MCARBO kit results are almost identical with ~3lb SA and 8lb DA.

I'm done with this review and will probably never post another one. There's a pretty tough crowd here that doesn't like new products that interfere with the status quo.  I enjoyed doing the review and think I covered it pretty thoroughly.  The trigger improvement in each of my CZ75b's is very substantial, and I'm more than satisfied with the MCARBO CZ75b kits.

As of today, there are eleven 5 star reviews on this CZ75 kit at their website. Go read them if you have any interest in substantially improving your trigger feel.




« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 10:30:59 AM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline jokester945

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #110 on: October 09, 2019, 10:55:00 PM »
So anyway, once I get the sear back in and try everything it should function without a problem. I don't think I'll do the PCR though, however I would love a long slide and barrel for the 75BD.

Did you get your trigger bar support spring in place and verify it's correct?

Yeah, I readjusted it to make sure, the left side was actually riding below the trigger bar against the frame. Funny considering this was the first time I've taken the gun down this far.

Offline Underwhere

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #111 on: October 09, 2019, 10:59:57 PM »
So anyway, once I get the sear back in and try everything it should function without a problem. I don't think I'll do the PCR though, however I would love a long slide and barrel for the 75BD.

Did you get your trigger bar support spring in place and verify it's correct?

Yeah, I readjusted it to make sure, the left side was actually riding below the trigger bar against the frame. Funny considering this was the first time I've taken the gun down this far.
OK that's what it looked like and is consistent with those symptoms you mentioned. Great. Problem solved.

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #112 on: October 11, 2019, 08:45:24 PM »
Just to keep each install consistent, I ran another 200rds today with no problems.  Each of the three installs had 400rds fired with no problems. The reused factory trigger pins are holding so far in the two installs, and my hunch is it they will hold just fine for the next several thousand rounds.  The trigger in each of the three installs is almost as good as my Shadow Orange and my two Shadow 2's. that's my opinion and I will stick with it. Other forum members should not criticize or make comments on the kit unless they have actually installed the MCARBO kit in their own CZ75b's.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 09:56:28 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline Underwhere

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #113 on: October 11, 2019, 11:08:22 PM »
Just to keep each install consistent, I ran another 200rds today with no problems.  Each of the three installs had 400rds fired with no problems. The reused factory trigger pins are holding so far in the two installs, and my hunch is it they will hold just fine for the next several thousand rounds.  The trigger in each of the three installs is almost as good as my Shadow Orange and my two Shadow 2's. that's my opinion and I will stick with it. Other forum members should not criticize or make comments on the kit unless they have actually installed the MCARBO kit in their own CZ75b's.

The MCARBO kit is a spring kit. Honestly that's it. It's no miracle that it would make your trigger pull lighter. The laws of physics dictate that that if you put lower tension springs under the hammer and firing pin block that you will get a lighter trigger pull. You could take the factory CZ hammer spring, cut 2 coils off and experience a similar result. So your results are not surprising.  They are to be expected.

What you continue to (and in my opinion purposefully) overlook in your review:
1. The hammer spring - it is of unknown weight so if you are trying to tune your gun to your liking then you are unable to as MCARBO does not sell differing weights. This is sort of a one-and-done scenario. If it happens not to work with the modifications in your gun then you're out of luck.

2. When you work on the trigger you should replace the trigger pin. Your "hunch" that it'll be fine is just that. I have seen broken trigger pins before but certainly have seen many more broken trigger return springs. In order to service the trigger you need to remove the trigger pin. Even if you have the tools to re-flare it, no one recommends it because flaring it causes weakness. If these are range toys for you, you may do just fine on your hunch. I won't judge that. You can feel free to do that.

However some people carry these guns for self defense. Other people compete with these guns. I would recommend that those 2 categories of people absolutely replace the trigger pin with a floating pin. It's $13. I have seen someone with a broken trigger return spring (and no ability to remove his factory trigger pin) at a match. He tied the trigger to the trigger guard with a rubber band in order to shoot the gun. I bet he wished he had that $13 pin that day. Plenty of us had spare trigger return springs to lend him.

3. Use a starter punch. You saw yourself what damage and trouble you can get into without the proper tools. I've damaged one of my guns as well and learned my lesson. So I tell as many people as possible to prevent them from making the same mistake. Instead you continue to review this MCARBO kit and ignore the problems you've had with the spring install.

While MCARBO does not claim to replace the trigger pin, there is no disclaimer or recommendation that someone should...nor a disclaimer or recommendation that one should use a proper starter punch. They should state that with their spring kit: that there are tools necessary for a proper installation. If they don't, whoever reviews this kit should state that so that others don't get into the same trouble you did.

A bunch of us told you these things and you ignored our recommendations. We didn't do it to criticize you. We did it because we have experienced these problems before and didn't want to see you experience them as well....and then you had your problems. 1 out of 3 guns isn't too bad but it's not too great either.

So I'll be frank here.
I appreciate your review of the kit and the pictures of the range testing. That's effort and not enough people do that.
From your insistence or stubbornness to heed people's advice I wonder if there is some sort of relationship between you and MCARBO...though I could care less of the conspiracy theories. Maybe you just don't like taking advice I dunno.

I have modified many CZ's. I have learned a lot from people on the forum. I appreciate when people explain their reasoning. I have tuned many CZ's and have played with differing spring tensions. What makes a good trigger is not simply a hammer spring and a firing pin block spring. I have worked several guns with triggers under 2 pounds and they are terrible. I have many guns with triggers in the 2 pound range which are incredible. A hammer spring and firing pin block spring only gets you partway to a really nice trigger (if that's what you're looking for).


Shadow Orange and Shadow 2's - These are not simply lightened springs. They have different hammers which drastically change the trigger feel. If you're just talking about trigger weight, then sure you can drop your CZ weights as low as you want. Unless you change the hammers on the 3 guns you installed the MCARBO kit on I highly doubt you are getting the same quality of trigger.

I have played with many CGW Race Hammers and Ring hammers. S2 hammers, two CZC competition hammers and they far outperform the stock hammers.

That may be personal feel but to me it's pretty obvious side by side.

Anyway good luck with your guns. I hope they treat you well and you enjoy your kits. End of the day we are all gun owners who like to play with our toys. No need to get worked up about this stuff.

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #114 on: October 11, 2019, 11:29:30 PM »
Just to keep each install consistent, I ran another 200rds today with no problems.  Each of the three installs had 400rds fired with no problems. The reused factory trigger pins are holding so far in the two installs, and my hunch is it they will hold just fine for the next several thousand rounds.  The trigger in each of the three installs is almost as good as my Shadow Orange and my two Shadow 2's. that's my opinion and I will stick with it. Other forum members should not criticize or make comments on the kit unless they have actually installed the MCARBO kit in their own CZ75b's.

Thanks for a coherent reply. Your points are valid, but I'm not exaggerating the trigger comparison with my Shadow Orange and Shadow 2's, it's pretty close. The only accuracy difference is in the sights, and not the trigger, IMO.  Also, I have absolutely no affiliation with this company at all.  I'm just really impressed with what this kit did to my stock CZ75's, that's all and nothing more. The tools needed to do the job are really not part of this review.  There's a learning curve for any type of gunsmith work.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 06:34:06 PM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline Underwhere

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 976
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #115 on: October 11, 2019, 11:40:43 PM »
For clarification sake:

The floating trigger pin is a necessary part, not a tool. You would want one on every gun you plan on doing trigger mods to.

The starter punch is a necessary tool. You only need one.

Offline Mercs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #116 on: October 11, 2019, 11:43:22 PM »
CZ 75b + MCARBO = Shadow Orange?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2019, 10:23:38 AM »
CZ 75b + MCARBO = Shadow Orange?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not what I meant. The Shadow Orange is a superior build all around.  Now throw in a CGW barrel bushing and a good front fiber optic sight, and I'll bet the accuracy would be on par with my Orange.  So, for <$200, you can turn a plain Jane CZ75b into a very nice Shadow like comparable, in most cases.  My last install needed the trigger bar spring adjusted, the other two did not. 

My CZ Custom built polished stainless CZ75b cost $1250 (sold it because of the loose slide to frame fit and excessive trigger pre-travel). The two stainless 75's I have now have a comparable trigger, with half the pretravel, cleaner machining and tighter fitment than the CZC gun.  Luck of the draw sometimes.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 10:46:35 AM by Rmach »
CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline Rmach

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #118 on: October 20, 2019, 02:26:54 PM »
Someone just posted a Youtube video on the MCARBO 75 kit on two of his decocker models and does a comparison to two other Omega (I think) handguns that have CGW parts.

CZ Shadow Orange (Aussie model), S2 urban gray, S2 black and blue, 75b polished stainless W/MCARBO kit, 75b w/MCARBO kit, Tristar C-100

Offline BStill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
Re: MCARBO CZ 75b trigger spring kit review.
« Reply #119 on: October 26, 2019, 10:25:23 AM »


Such negativity in here over new products for the CZ 75. If someone bought the product and they're happy with the results, why try to convince them that they'd have been better off with a more expensive alternative at a higher cost? If you don't have anything good to say...

I remember when "the Angus hammer" was relatively "unproven" and when a guy from Louisiana began selling his "unproven" parts. MCarbo parts for the CZ may not have a lot of time behind them, but it's not MCarbo's first rodeo.

MCarbo is offering a handful of parts for $23 shipped. Do you know what $23 shipped gets me at CGW? A trigger pin, shipping, and $2 to spare.

Perhaps MCarbo will start selling a trigger pin, I know they're already looking at CZ triggers...

Anyhow, I'm happy with my $23 bag of MCarbo parts. I'm also happy with my CZ UB parts, CZC parts, CGW parts, and RCtech parts. The more offerings, the better.

I don't think negatively is the right word. None of us here are bashing MCARBO.

The appeal of this kit is price so it's totally appropriate to discuss the associated costs with modifying the trigger properly. Not doing so and touting only the cost benefit of the actual parts of this kit would be deceptive.

I do this because when I started with CZ's early in I had to learn a lot quickly and I paid more because I didn't have the right information.

Here ia what I learned:

1. Modifying these guns is expensive but the potential gains are incredible. When complete these guns are by far the best handguns I own.
2. Always use a floating trigger pin. You shouldn't reuse the flared pin
3. Buy a starter pin to remove the factory flare. Normal punches aren't as effective and you risk damaging parts.
4. Replace the firing pin retaining pin with a hardened one.
5. Use an O-ring to dry fire.

I'm sure there are more.

So let's discuss MCARBO specifically. I think it's great they offer parts. I don't think they understand the market. I think they offer a kit that is competitively priced yet overlook that other parts are necessary to complete the install. I suggest they make a floating trigger pin and offer a starter punch for sale with their kit.

This would be analogous to the discount motor oil example. Whoever sells discount motor oil should realize that at some point they should offer oil filters too... Because the two sort of go hand-in-hand and any cost saving on discount motor oil is negated by using multiple vendors and paying shipping etc.

For the consumer : I think it's the right thing to do to have these discussions and provide people with all the information needed to modify these guns.

When I started modifying my CZ's I didn't buy a starter punch and didn't buy a floating trigger pin. As soon as I sat down to disassemble the gun I struggled with the pin. I realized instantly that I couldn't use it again. Guess what. I had to go buy one and pay shipping costs a second time and wait a few days for it to arrive. I also picked up a starter punch. That cost me more money and more hassle. It was a learning experience.

You can call the mention of this "negativity" but my intention is really to inform others of what is really necessary when you make these changes.
for someone new to CZ and thinking about how to improve the disappointing DA pull of my new (to me) P-01, but a little intimidated about taking any gun down farther than a field strip for the first time, this is one of the most useful and educational posts in this debate about a particular product.

for me, the learning is less about the product itself and more about the discussion. 

thank you

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk


 

anything