Author Topic: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?  (Read 358 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TJNewton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 10:16:27 PM »
There's No deal, for any VZ 2008. He had forgotten about my proposed rifle trade, or wasn't really interested. I said nothing about it, 
 :) and really appreciate the in-depth information on all of these guns.

His 2008 has run so well with all 1,000 rds. or so--today watched him very focused on a friendly tactical course--that he's very happy with it.

** Note: 8)  I ordered a Czechpoint 58 today, via "Buy Now" on  Gunbroker., "in the box". Some of you guys have seen those (several are avail.). Can imagine that Atlantic Firearms must have been completely sold out for a while.

 Where do we close a thread topic? Already searched.

Too bad about the deal.  Good that you have the VZ58 coming.  If that deal falls through for any reason, Czechpoint has some in stock on their website.

Offline Laufer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2019, 11:11:06 PM »
Thanks for the back-up option.

Had no idea that they both imported and also sold directly to customers.
Having seen none available with Atlantic Firearms, there must be plenty of people who learned about the importer possibility.


Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3624
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 04:58:20 AM »
Czechpoint actually has a threefer -- sole importer, distributor, and (nearly so) retailer.  And that's why by my math relative to Canada prices most notably (last time I looked was a couple years back), these guns should be sub $1k USD but run 20%+ that amount.  I think I also discussed in previous threads how it appears to me that if Czechpoint would relinquish their near-universal monopoly AND lower the price point/give on individual-rifle profit margin (I think my estimate was +50% on Czechpoint's wholesale rifle costs, ~$800, but granted there is some 922r costs and milling out the magwell to double-stack specs but that SEEMS to amount to JUST ~$100 per gun on pistols vs rifles), Czechpoint would be able to significantly increase their overall profit whole also saving consumers THOUSANDS to MILLIONS of dollars... 

And Czech/Slovak sources tell me that CSA will make however many firearms demand requires -- that the bottleneck is on the US end of the equation -- and again, it's my perspective is that this is a self-imposed issue by Czechpoint.

Offline TJNewton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 11:14:28 AM »
Someone in Eastern Europe is getting filthy rich if they're providing rifles to Czechpoint at those wholesale prices.  While not quite the gulf of about 10-to-1 it was during the cold war, the average income in that part of the world is about a third of what it is in the US.  I'm sure whoever is producing them has a lock on the tooling and knowledge, otherwise the wholesale prices should be around $250.  A contemporary AK maker in a former Soviet-bloc nation has competition from several other former Soviet-bloc nations, as well as China, Egypt, etc, keeping AK prices significantly lower.  The VZ58 platform, of course, is much more localized.

If the Czechpoints cost $800, I would buy three.  At $900-$1000, I would buy two.  Yesterday.  I'm sure such prices would also entice new shooters.  I may change my mind someday and pony up, but it is a shame as increased numbers of VZ58 shooters would give a good boost to the aftermarket.  Maybe even spur the manufacture of new replacement parts.

Offline Laufer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 12:11:31 PM »
Increased demand-influenced by YouTube?

With the conclusion of Rob Ski's very successful VZ-58 tests after 5,000 rds., this will be a factor. A prime question might be how many New/extra people will find, or justify so much cash for a gun which is not the venerable AK, and shares no components.

His very well-known tests on YouTube have influenced vast numbers of people from buying an RAS by Century (or their C39), and his I.O. results after 3,500 (+) rounds prompted a long complaint letter from the I.O. CEO "Uli". Rob read that letter out loud to viewers.
I.O.--you might realize--No Longer produces the junk known as I.O. AK clone.

Rob Ski's tests certainly attract attention.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 12:34:14 PM by Laufer »

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3624
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2019, 10:03:24 PM »
Someone in Eastern Europe is getting filthy rich if they're providing rifles to Czechpoint at those wholesale prices.  While not quite the gulf of about 10-to-1 it was during the cold war, the average income in that part of the world is about a third of what it is in the US.  I'm sure whoever is producing them has a lock on the tooling and knowledge, otherwise the wholesale prices should be around $250.  A contemporary AK maker in a former Soviet-bloc nation has competition from several other former Soviet-bloc nations, as well as China, Egypt, etc, keeping AK prices significantly lower.  The VZ58 platform, of course, is much more localized.

If the Czechpoints cost $800, I would buy three.  At $900-$1000, I would buy two.  Yesterday.  I'm sure such prices would also entice new shooters.  I may change my mind someday and pony up, but it is a shame as increased numbers of VZ58 shooters would give a good boost to the aftermarket.  Maybe even spur the manufacture of new replacement parts.

Retail in Canada for CSA rifles is right at $1,050 USD/$1,400 CAD right now.  It's up quite a bit from where it was but CAD has also fallen from parity w/ the USD...

I do wonder who actually owns CSA -- they have a bunch of Czechpoint promo stuff on their website: http://www.csa.co.cz/

But AFAIK, Czechpoint is owned in the US (so someone here is making bank), and I wouldn't be surprised if whoever owns Czechpoint purchased ownership interest in CSA.

Offline TJNewton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 639
Re: How does VZ 2008 steel quality compare with VZ58 components?
« Reply #21 on: Today at 08:43:58 AM »
I do wonder who actually owns CSA -- they have a bunch of Czechpoint promo stuff on their website: http://www.csa.co.cz/

But AFAIK, Czechpoint is owned in the US (so someone here is making bank), and I wouldn't be surprised if whoever owns Czechpoint purchased ownership interest in CSA.

Czechpoint has their registered agent listed as Tomas Quis, who also comes up in searches as being Czech.  He also holds the 2005 US patent for the VZ58, as well as many others.  Nothing nefarious implied, and indeed it would be a matter of practicality as probably only a Czech would have the contacts and know-how to create a bridge to the US and import VZ58's.  Anyway, there seems to be a huge mark-up somewhere along the line that is disproportionate to the US/Czech currency and income ratios.  Good for them if they can pull it off, which, having a monopoly, seems that they do.  It's probably a good overall business decision.  With the extremely low prices of the present AR15 market, they're wise to remain a boutique business instead of expanding into the mass market.

 

anything