Round nose vs. Truncated Cone Bullets

[bobjd]

Does anyone have a performance comparison between the round nose and truncated cone bullets? I have been using the 125 gr. RN Blue bullets and am considering trying the TC bullets. The RN work fine but am wondering if the TC has any advantage.

Bob

[jwc007]

Been using the Flat Pointed and Lyman Truncated Cone shaped Bullets for years now.

The Rainier and Berry's Flat Points do have a longer bearing surface which may help accuracy in some Pistols.

When using them for IPSC Matches, they tend to cut cleaner holes on Targets and that Flat Point seems to have a hammering effect on the Steel Poppers,
whether in 9mm or .45 ACP.


Accuracy of Berry's 124 grain Flat Points in Tanfoglio/RIA MAP1 FS at 50 feet

[Wobbly]

Exactly what JWC said.

The down-side is that as popular as these are, a lot of Seating Dies aren't set up to handle them properly. If you're talking about the FP conicals (like Berry), then a flat anvil will do great. If you are talking about the conical HP then some of the hollow tube anvils from Hornady and Redding do a very respectable job. But there aren't many Seating Dies set up to handle bullets such as the Horanady XTP and HAP, or the Precision Delta JHP.

Offerings from Berry...



Just my 2 cents.

[DMY]

My experience is the same as jwc. I've compared RN and TCFP from Missouri in the same weight, same powder charges, same primers, and same brass. The COAL was different because of the bullet profile. The TCFP grouped better and knocked over steel plates with more force in .38 and 9mm. I've only tried FP and RS (which has a flat face) from Berry' in .45. The were also good, but so we're the RN. 

[bobjd]

Been using the Flat Pointed and Lyman Truncated Cone shaped Bullets for years now.

The Rainier and Berry's Flat Points do have a longer bearing surface which may help accuracy in some Pistols.

When using them for IPSC Matches, they tend to cut cleaner holes on Targets and that Flat Point seems to have a hammering effect on the Steel Poppers,
whether in 9mm or .45 ACP.


Accuracy of Berry's 124 grain Flat Points in Tanfoglio/RIA MAP1 FS at 50 feet

Thanks for the reply. Your results are what I am hoping for. I am satisfied with the RN but am looking to improve performance if I can. Nice shooting by the way.

Regards,
Bob

[bobjd]

Exactly what JWC said.

The down-side is that as popular as these are, a lot of Seating Dies aren't set up to handle them properly. If you're talking about the FP conicals (like Berry), then a flat anvil will do great. If you are talking about the conical HP then some of the hollow tube anvils from Hornady and Redding do a very respectable job. But there aren't many Seating Dies set up to handle bullets such as the Horanady XTP and HAP, or the Precision Delta JHP.

Offerings from Berry...



Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for the info. Being new to the forum I really appreciate you being willing to share what you know. I have learned a lot. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lee dies. Loading 9MM 125 gr. RN Blue Bullets and have some 125 TC Blues on the way.

Regards,

Bob

[bobjd]

My experience is the same as jwc. I've compared RN and TCFP from Missouri in the same weight, same powder charges, same primers, and same brass. The COAL was different because of the bullet profile. The TCFP grouped better and knocked over steel plates with more force in .38 and 9mm. I've only tried FP and RS (which has a flat face) from Berry' in .45. The were also good, but so we're the RN.

Appreciate the reply. That is what I was hoping for. I will be using the same weight bullet and same powder charge as I am using with the RN so it will be interesting to see the results. It will be a week or two before I make the change over.

Regards,

Bob

[jwc007]

Thanks for the info. Being new to the forum I really appreciate you being willing to share what you know. I have learned a lot. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lee dies. Loading 9MM 125 gr. RN Blue Bullets and have some 125 TC Blues on the way.

I also use a Dillon XL650 with Lee and Lyman Dies

I will be using the same weight bullet and same powder charge as I am using with the RN so it will be interesting to see the results.

Just note that Flat Pointed Bullets do seat deeper into the case and pressure will be higher.  You might want to start low and work up again.

[Wobbly]

Thanks for the info. Being new to the forum I really appreciate you being willing to share what you know. I have learned a lot. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lee dies. Loading 9MM 125 gr. RN Blue Bullets and have some 125 TC Blues on the way.

Regards,
Bob

Bob -
I'm also using a 650, but I use Dillon dies. The last sets of Lee dies I saw did not offer an exchangeable seating anvil, and I think that's going to be the one thing you miss the most. The Lee dies are an excellent value, but lack some of the refined features you'll need as you experiment with different bullet shapes.

The first thing a Seating Die should do is stand the bullet straight-up. The second thing it should do is provide centering. Those ideas are so close that often they are often confused. The lack of either will result in a crushed case. Then finally seating by spreading the pressure of seating over such a large area that marks and indentations are not left on the bullet's ogive or meplat.

I mention this because conical bullets present a tremendous opportunity for all 3. Here's a graphic of how the seating anvil (shown in red) would be acting upon a conical bullet. You can readily see that the conical shape easily provides the means to straighten, center and push over a large area. It's very conical shape invites that.



You could seat this bullet with a flat anvil, but the flat area is so small (relative to the full diameter) that the bullet is just as likely to be pushed into the case sideways. This because a flat anvil offers no centering.

So to get the most from your new bullet shape, it might also be time to consider a different Seating Die.

Hope this helps.

[greenbastard]

Thanks for the info. Being new to the forum I really appreciate you being willing to share what you know. I have learned a lot. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lee dies. Loading 9MM 125 gr. RN Blue Bullets and have some 125 TC Blues on the way.

Regards,
Bob

Bob -
I'm also using a 650, but I use Dillon dies. The last sets of Lee dies I saw did not offer an exchangeable seating anvil, and I think that's going to be the one thing you miss the most. The Lee dies are an excellent value, but lack some of the refined features you'll need as you experiment with different bullet shapes.

The first thing a Seating Die should do is stand the bullet straight-up. The second thing it should do is provide centering. Those ideas are so close that often they are often confused. The lack of either will result in a crushed case. Then finally seating by spreading the pressure of seating over such a large area that marks and indentations are not left on the bullet's ogive or meplat.

I mention this because conical bullets present a tremendous opportunity for all 3. Here's a graphic of how the seating anvil (shown in red) would be acting upon a conical bullet. You can readily see that the conical shape easily provides the means to straighten, center and push over a large area. It's very conical shape invites that.



You could seat this bullet with a flat anvil, but the flat area is so small (relative to the full diameter) that the bullet is just as likely to be pushed into the case sideways. This because a flat anvil offers no centering.

So to get the most from your new bullet shape, it might also be time to consider a different Seating Die.

Hope this helps.

Wobbly,

Thanks again for sharing your extensive knowledge!

You explanation is exactly why I decided to purchase the Hornady Seating Die (#044144). I really like my Lee dies, but unfortunately the seating anvil can not be exchanged. The Hornady die comes with a hollow tube type and flat shaped anvils, which seems to handle all shapes very well and gives consistent OAL's. I also added the Microjust Seating Micrometer to the die, which helps it provide even better repeatable precision.
With the addition of the Hornady seating die and the Lyman Neck Expanding (M) die that I also added, my finished rounds are at least 50% better than they were when using just the Lee dies. I am in no way bad mouthing or trying to dissuade someone from the Lee dies because they also produce nice and safe reloaded ammo.

[greenbastard]

Thanks for the info. Being new to the forum I really appreciate you being willing to share what you know. I have learned a lot. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lee dies. Loading 9MM 125 gr. RN Blue Bullets and have some 125 TC Blues on the way.

Regards,
Bob

bobjd,

If you don't mind me asking, at what OAL are you seating the 9mm 125gr RN Blue Bullets? I have some coming in the next couple days and am curious as I haven't been able to find very much information on that particular bullet.

Thank you Sir

[Wobbly]

.....what OAL are you seating the 9mm 125gr RN Blue Bullets? I have some coming in the next couple days and am curious as I haven't been able to find very much information on that particular bullet.

Mr Green -
Welcome Aboard !

On a side note... Ordering bullets for a CZ without first inquiring as to their utility is a great way to end up with a pile of bullets you end up not being able to use. Not fussing at you, just giving you a general warning. Luckily, RN are typically not big offenders. That award goes to 147gr anything and 124gr conicals. But especially right now, when supplies are hard to find, receiving a supply of bullets you can't use would be a kicker.

All the best.

[bobjd]

bobjd,
If you don't mind me asking, at what OAL are you seating the 9mm 125gr RN Blue Bullets? I have some coming in the next couple days and am curious as I haven't been able to find very much information on that particular bullet.

Thank you Sir

The OAL that I use for 125 RN Blue Bullets is 1.100. That does a nice plunk test in my CZ and works well in my other brands. Hope that helps.  Bob

[bobjd]

JWC
Thanks for the reminder about increased pressure. I tend to load in the middle of the recommended range but with the increased length I will be start a bit lower and work up.

Thanks Bob

[bobjd]

Wobbly, thanks for the info on the seating die. Until a year ago I was loading on a Lee Classic Turret press which I think did a good job. I came across a basket case Dillon 650 that had been sitting in a guys garage for about 8 years. It was set up for 45 ACP and had powder and primers in it as well as rust and dries grease in the pins. I disassembled it, cleaned, removed rust, lubed and reassembled. I installed my Lee 9mm dies and have been using it for the last 11 months.

After your reminder about the seating die the 650 will be reunited with a new set of Dillon dies. I ordered them today.

Thanks,

Bob