Author Topic: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues  (Read 7190 times)

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Offline Hammz

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #135 on: September 10, 2020, 03:13:18 PM »
So they dumped the 805 for the Bren 2 in just a few years? Thats wild. Back to issues though. Do many people have issues with the 11" and 14" models in 7.62? Far as i've read people with the 5.56 model really dont have any of these issues.

I'm glad I got rid of my 805, then.  It saddens me to see CZ going the way of SIG with product support.  Releasing a platform then just completely dumping support for it when a new model comes out.  I hope they figure something out because they're my favorite firearm company and I'd hate to see their reputation dwindle.  Makes me nervous for if something breaks on my 550 Safari Magnum since they're discontinuing those.  I'd have a heavy, expensive paperweight.

I agree with Magsz though.  With the pandemic going on and lack of supply on hand I think there is a legitimate excuse.

Either way it still makes me nervous, though.  I don't think there is a gun I've wanted more than the Bren 2 Battle Rifle and I am eagerly awaiting its release.  I would be devastated to get that gun and it run like crap.
CZ Shadow 2 SAO | 9mm

Offline Aries144

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #136 on: September 11, 2020, 04:11:13 AM »
In all fairness, the 805 looks to have been the result of a bureaucratic rush from prototype to production. It was apparently dimensionally speced to have a polymer receiver, but used aluminum to make a functioning prototype. That prototype was then ordered into production with the aluminum receiver, with no dimensional changes, despite the massive increase in weight over what was originally intended.

The Bren 2 is the result of a former Czech specops guy getting directly involved in development and apparently also the bureaucracy. The Bren 2's rapid adoption and replacement of the 805 so soon after the 805 was adopted is almost unprecedented.

I don't think this is a SIG type issue at all. I think the 805 was seen by influential people in Czech decision making as a hasty bad decision and was replaced with the Bren 2. I don't think we'll see the Bren 2 replaced anytime soon. The Bren 2 already has multiple significant international contracts outside the Czech Army, while I don't believe the 805 ever did.

Offline dkozy

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #137 on: September 11, 2020, 11:18:48 AM »
In all fairness, the 805 looks to have been the result of a bureaucratic rush from prototype to production. It was apparently dimensionally speced to have a polymer receiver, but used aluminum to make a functioning prototype. That prototype was then ordered into production with the aluminum receiver, with no dimensional changes, despite the massive increase in weight over what was originally intended.

The Bren 2 is the result of a former Czech specops guy getting directly involved in development and apparently also the bureaucracy. The Bren 2's rapid adoption and replacement of the 805 so soon after the 805 was adopted is almost unprecedented.

I don't think this is a SIG type issue at all. I think the 805 was seen by influential people in Czech decision making as a hasty bad decision and was replaced with the Bren 2. I don't think we'll see the Bren 2 replaced anytime soon. The Bren 2 already has multiple significant international contracts outside the Czech Army, while I don't believe the 805 ever did.
Thanks for this Aries144. This gives me a bit more confidence.

Offline Kedzie

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #138 on: September 12, 2020, 02:48:38 AM »
All I know is that it's a sad day when a WASR-10 is more reliable than a gun costing almost three times as much.  CZ sure dropped the ball on this one.  :/

Offline tskunk

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #139 on: September 15, 2020, 02:07:10 PM »
Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!

Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).

About ready to send this thing to CZ.

Offline Mercs

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #140 on: September 15, 2020, 02:10:01 PM »
Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!

Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).

About ready to send this thing to CZ.
If it looked like it ejected in slow motion on those 4 o’clock ones, I believe they bounced off the front of the ejection port. That’s exactly what happens with mine


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Offline tskunk

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2020, 02:17:04 PM »
If it looked like it ejected in slow motion on those 4 o’clock ones, I believe they bounced off the front of the ejection port. That’s exactly what happens with mine

That makes perfect sense, I bet that’s it. I was by myself today but I’ve got a friend coming with me to the range on Thursday who I’m gonna have get video and slo-mo footage.

Do you think overgassing is the root of the problem?

Offline Mercs

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2020, 05:55:11 PM »
Do you think overgassing is the root of the problem?
Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem




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Offline MeatAxe

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2020, 06:40:25 PM »
Tried running another 90 rounds through my 14” MS with the 10” HBI handguard. Ran 3 types of steel case—Tula, Red Army Standard, and lacquer Wolf Military classic. Stovepipes with all of them. The lacquer was the worst for sure—4x stovepipes in one mag!

Paid attention to ejection patterns and it was like 90% of casings being rocketed out at 1-2 o’clock (as far forward as possible basically) with the other 10% coming out almost like they were under gassed (4 o’clock with cases falling only a foot or so away).

About ready to send this thing to CZ.


It may be that the lacquer "sticks" a bit more in the chamber at the instant of firing when the case is superheated and expands from detonation, causing it to hang up more in the chamber when the super velocity / overgassed bolt/extractor loses its grip on the case rim. Generally, the lacquer coating is considered superior to poly coat.

Offline bren2cz

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #144 on: September 15, 2020, 06:42:35 PM »
Hey everyone new to forum but I wanted to give a few thoughts on this as I have a Bren 2 ms 9" in 7.62x39.

Initially, I don't believe I had FTE problems on the first hundred rounds. However, i did start to have them sporadically over the next 200 rounds. I thought it was the magazines at first(one of the mags cracked on the feed lip so I thought that was it for a while)The ammo I was using was brass cased ball ammo Igman I think is the brand( Yugoslav milspec ammo I believe). Also used Wolf performance steel cased. I only have ever used position 1 gas setting. Both of this ammo I run through a palmetto ak and it has zero issues as you would expect of an AK and most 7.62x39 guns.
I then had some work done to the gun. I had an hbi industries handguard installed along with trigger, safety, handle and a lantech dragons breath muzzle break that fits my dead orbit sandman-s suppressor.

Recently, I decided to try out brown bear sub-sonics with my suppressor and bren 2 combo. So far I have shot about 300 rounds with this setup and have not had one stove pipe or FTE.( I would get an fte about 3 times in one mag with normal ammo) What that says to me is there is definitely some issues with the gas system as most have said. Drilling out 0 seems like the best solution but just feels wrong on such expensive gun lmao. The reality is on a sbr(under 10") the dwell time is very minimal so its difficult to get the gas system to function properly not to mention excessive wear and tear on parts. I had been wondering how well they had engineered that specific part(the gas system)and that apparently is still up for debate 8).

 I cant deny I'm really happy running subs in this combo, as it has proven to be more reliable than 300blk  builds I've tried. I would like to be able to have the gun run reliably without a suppressor and sub-sonics, though. Especially for such an expensive and what I think you would call a high quality gun( I bought the $10 dan haga wobble fix washers).
 I do really enjoy this gun now that I can reliably shoot it. But, having such a low reliability with normal ammunition really makes it hard to justify to the average person, most feel a $2k gun should work out of the box every time.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 06:56:46 PM by bren2cz »

Offline tskunk

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #145 on: September 15, 2020, 07:04:40 PM »
Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem

It’s too bad that the chances of getting new gas plugs to reduce the gassiness from CZ in the short to medium term are very low. You’ve got me thinking about getting my 14” cut down now!

Offline Mercs

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #146 on: September 15, 2020, 07:14:46 PM »
Yes. Here in this video he has a 11” gun with the 0 port drilled out to match the 1 port on the 14” gun. When he shoots it looks like it solves the bolt overspeed problem

It’s too bad that the chances of getting new gas plugs to reduce the gassiness from CZ in the short to medium term are very low. You’ve got me thinking about getting my 14” cut down now!
For my 11” 2s I just need the gas plug from a 14” gun, and then could use the “0” to have drilled for suppressor setting if ever needed in the future. I wonder if CZ would help us out with this


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Offline Endy88

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #147 on: September 24, 2020, 08:55:51 PM »
Does anybody have the size of the 14" 7.62 bren setting 1 gas port?

Offline Clintonlemon81

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #148 on: September 25, 2020, 05:36:38 AM »
I'm not sure what the port size is on the 14"  good luck getting it done, I actually went into copper customs and asked the guys at copper if chase from definitive arms would drill my zero position on my gas tube plug to the size on the 14" pistol , it was a hard NO! because of voiding warranty and liability issues im sure... I have contacted Tim from military arms channel since im local to him and see if he would like to take my bren 2ms in 7.62x39 with a 11" barrel out to document the ejection issues since my pistol is having this problem.  We are currently working on getting together and having Tim look into it... ill try and keep you all posted on this situation.

Offline Endy88

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Re: Bren 2 9" FTE/Stovepipe issues
« Reply #149 on: September 25, 2020, 08:29:48 PM »
Check what I found earlier.   This makes a ton of sense as to the problem.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/CZ-Bren-2-FTE-Issue-Analyzed-and-probable-fix-Need-Guinea-pigs-STAT-ASAP-Get-in-here-and-try-this/2-516159/

I'm not sure what the port size is on the 14"  good luck getting it done, I actually went into copper customs and asked the guys at copper if chase from definitive arms would drill my zero position on my gas tube plug to the size on the 14" pistol , it was a hard NO! because of voiding warranty and liability issues im sure... I have contacted Tim from military arms channel since im local to him and see if he would like to take my bren 2ms in 7.62x39 with a 11" barrel out to document the ejection issues since my pistol is having this problem.  We are currently working on getting together and having Tim look into it... ill try and keep you all posted on this situation.

 

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