Who is planning to form 1 their Scorpion soon?

[1000RR]

I will ask a dumb question.  I am new to this world. (Not CZ though.  I purchased a CZ 75 when it they first became available and I love it.) Can a fella get the paperwork squared away, not configure his Scorpion thusly and go about his business as usual?  Sort of have the SBR in his back pocket if needed?

Yes.  I just finished Form 1'ing my Scorpion to an SBR.  If I keep it configured with an arm brace, it's a pistol (under current regs) and can operate and be transported as such.  If I put a regular stock on it, it's now an SBR and the Form 1 takes care of me there... although transporting it is a little different, especially out of State.  If you're Form 1'ing your Scorpion as an individual you don't need another engraving other than the engravings already on the gun.  I'm not sure about doing the same as a Trust.  I don't have a gun trust, so never dug into that part.  My NFA items will be handled through my Will and there are ways to make the transfer fairly easy and painless and not cost another $200 for the next inline for owning them (when I die).

[M300Pilot]

I appreciate the helpful replies from everyone.  My apologies if this is too wordy.  The context for me fretting a little more than the next guy is that I have a 23 year old with high functioning autism and I have had enough heartache.  I bought the darn thing to protect my house in case the world goes to heck (one could reasonably argue that it has already has gone to heck) and on the rare occasion that I may go to the range with chums.  I prefer to not wake up one morning and find out I am officially 'bad guy' number one.

[Das Hugh!]

Literally all the accusations they make.. They're on record as being guilty of. It's a open case of rules for you.. not for them. They're trying to disarm as they fan flames. They're creating division where there is none. All thier model examples of thier political conceptual cities are in flames and are in total chaos. Trying to word this as politically neutral as possible lol. I myself am half Choctaw Warrior. And I think America is the best dam thing going. I live in Alabama. Supposedly the most racist place on earth. And I do just fine and never experience crap as far as stuff they want ya to believe. I don't lean totally right. And no where near left. But in the middle. The sane Grey area. Both sides have faults. But I'll tell ya this. Don't expect to see any commemorative presidential Biden Harris desert eagles anytime soon lol. And everyone next time around should vote for however promises to not infringe on any rights. No matter what.  Cause they'll always offer protection in exchange for rights. But those who give up thier rights in exchange for protection.  Deserve neither and will lose both

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[Northern]

@1000RR, what you said about transporting and engraving doesn’t comport with the instructions and information I have read. Could you point to a reliable source that says if you remove the stock from a registered SBr you can cross state lines without going through the formal process required for transporting NFA items? And what is the source for the proposition that individuals need not engrave?

[1000RR]

Once you have your stamp, the gun is registered and contained in their database with your serial number as an SBR.  The unit first has to "be" an SBR to fall under the SBR regulations. If it is not an SBR, then it's simply not an SBR.  The fact that it is on the db allows it to be configured as an SBR but if you don't configure it, it's simply not an SBR. If you'd like, you can always send a letter in requesting they remove it from the database.  This is also the way you might sell this weapon in the future without having to have the purchaser get his/her own stamp prior to taking possession.  Think of it like this - similar with a solvent trap you might purchase.  You don't drill the holes until you receive your stamp.  Once you receive your stamp, you are now allowed to drill the holes, ensure the proper markings on the can, and now the solvent trap becomes a suppressor and is an NFA item.  Prior to drilling the holes, the can is not a suppressor, it's still a solvent trap.  Solvent traps are not illegal to possess or transport.  Hope that helps.  It's been a while since I researched and read through everything, so unfortunately I can't point you to the black and white version.

If I remove my stock from my Scorpion, and it has no stock what so ever, ask yourself if it's a pistol or an SBR.  The database that allows it to be an SBR isn't a searchable database or something readily available to do checks with - so it would be far fetched for ATF to be sitting at your range asking each person with a Scorpion in pistol configuration (or an AR type gun) - sir, I know that's not an SBR right now, but are you sure it's not on the NFA database having been provided a stamp to make it an SBR?

[1000RR]

As long as that gun is in the nfa registery, guess what that gun is registered as regardless of whether you have a stock on it or not.

I agree it is in the registry once you've been issued a stamp, where we disagree is whether or not it is in fact an SBR if it is in pistol configuration and therefore still falls under the rules of an SBR even though it is a pistol (according to the ATF's definitions).  From my reading and research, my understanding is that an SBR is an SBR and a pistol is a pistol regardless of what is contained in the registry.  The registry simply covers the individual if they in fact utilize/possess the gun and is in an SBR configuration (according to how an SBR is defined).  Again, that is my understanding.  I'm not here to argue my side vs. yours.  Your understanding is different and I was initially under the same thought approach as you.  Since my further digging into it, that has changed.  As you know, the ATF pretty much has enough ambiguity in their language in various areas that you need to be careful regardless.

[Northern]

@1000RR, I can understand the logic of your theory but I believe it is incorrect. Once you have registered a gun as an SBR under the NFA, that gun is an SBR in the eyes of the law until it is removed from the registry. Otherwise you could remove the stock, sell the gun to a buyer, and they could add the stock and the gun would remain registered — but that’s not how it works. You can transfer an SBr and the buyer must wait to take possession until they get separate approval; or you can remove the parts that make it an SBR, then request to remove it from the registry, then sell it, then the new buyer may do a form 1. I understand where you are coming from with your theory of how it works, but it’s a reading of the law that attempts to skirt it’s effects, which is a dangerous approach unless you have a legit source verifying it. Same goes for interstate transport.

May or may not be accurate:
https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/blogs/nfa-gun-trust-atf-information-database-blog/removing-an-sbr-sbs-from-the-nfrtr-and-then-reregistering-the-sbr-sbs-process

[1000RR]

The ATF has issued opinion letters to the effect that an SBR is only an SBR when it is in an SBR configuration. One Example: https://imgur.com/a/2kGJvHf

[thelastbill]

Registration is always followed by confiscation. Always. Sic semper tyrannis

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[Mercs]

Registration is always followed by confiscation. Always. Sic semper tyrannis

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ALWAYS


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[Das Hugh!]

I predict a record snapper population soon if it flies. With all the new rifled reefs that will soon accidently be made following the ruling lol

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[1000RR]

I predict a record snapper population soon if it flies. With all the new rifled reefs that will soon accidently be made following the ruling lol

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LMAO!!!  Sounds about right!

[Das Hugh!]

[emoji23][emoji23]

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[thelastbill]

The new atf director is going to be confirmed even though he lied under oath and they are hiding his personnel file. Then listen to grandpa applesauce brain talk about firearms today.

bleep the paperwork. Prepare yourselves. Looking for a can for 1/2x28 if anyone knows where to get one cheap.

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[MacAttack]

I live in a tri-state hub kinda area where a few miles into either direction lands me into other states fast. So that puts a wet blanket on a dedicated car gun being a SBR right there. Then my health sucks. So my kid won't be able to hawk the wares I bequeath to her anytime soon if she So chooses when I pass in the next few years. Theyre a pain in the butt to sell. So I have mine braced for impact so to speak. The simple fact the ATF etc came out and started this convo on braces a few months back proves thier total uselessness. They basically admitted they sat around and did nuttin for ages while SBR's was being sold in the wide open. Now they wanna play catch up. And if they get thier way if other bills too.. it won't just be SBR stamps. They'd like to add all "high cap" magazines to be individually taxed too the same way. As stated above if people comply it will be inundated with requests and take 20 years to be fully compliant. Not to mention if each firearm ya own has let's say 10 mags.. that's 2k in taxes alone on mags. Another 200 for sbr. So I'm leaving mine braced till yeah there's no other option. And even then if I'm forced to SBR some.. they can still use same brace afterwards. I think. Once ya stamp it I think ya can run whatever stock ya want at that point. Don't quote me. I'm no expert. Takes a rocket scientist to keep track of all the stuff. But if it gets to be a thing that must be done they should do an amnesty imo and offer free access to SBR the current ones in circulation. Since they sat by and idly watched as the situation occurred to begin with

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Though it no longer makes sense to use a trust for the loop holes it had, you do get to make someone equally able to use, sell etc. any NFA item in the trust. Mine was done before the BS hurdles were added to the process. My wife will be able to sell mine that is if my brother doesn't want it. He's on there too.