Has CZ Lost Their Mind?

[Claymore504]

I'am not real sure what CZ is up to these days. Buying out Colt is most likely taking up a lot of time and energy getting that company in line as to what CZ has planned. There was a deal to build in Arkansas a couple years back, but that seems to have gone away as Amazon is building on part of that land. I would guess that getting Colt took priority.

I see it as CZ's main market is not the US (minus competition). They have a very dedicated fan following here (Most of us on this forum), but we accept the downfalls as well. Gun availability comes and goes, mags and parts are not on store shelves and gear many times has to be custom. They pushed the P10 series when it came out as a Glock killer. That was a strong stance that got lots of attention. Well, then the marketing just seemed to die off. If getting the P10 into LEO holsters was the plan, it was a weak at best attempt overall and still is.

The LE/MIL program has reduced to pretty much nothing these days as well and armorer course are out sourced and dates and locations are random. Glock, I would say has the best LE/MIL program and thier guns can be found all over the place. Beretta has a pretty good program as well and still offers parts discounts online. Even Walther has a great program and is pretty much the same program CZ used to have. They also are making a serious push at LEO with the PDP.

I love CZ hammer fired guns, so the P10 is a non issue for me. Sometimes I think it would be nice to just go with a mainstream striker gun like Glock, M&P or the P320 and be done with it. However, there is just something special with CZ hammer fired guns for me and I stick with them. I have always had great customer service from CZ in the past and it always had that small company personal feeling. I hope that does not start changing.

[GRU7_Mike]

Kahr vs CZ.....I find the difference is what makes them the same!!! One one hand Kahr refuses to deviate from the same design and models it has had for years. They refuse to make a 45 cal in the K and MK series, refuse to revamp the stupid dual recoil spring system that everyone hates and give the models better sights. CZ on the other hand has provided quality firearms that not only are accepted for the durability and design, but for accuracy and ease of modifications from the various parts and companies like CZ Custom and CGW. Why they are trying so hard to break into markets of other types that have quality firearms already and the reputation for certain models like Glock and FN....so on is taking away from the proven success of what they are know for.  A P-01 and P-07/9 in 45 cal...keeping the 97b.  If the poly frame is so important to get into why have they not developed a poly CZ 75....one of the most iconic handguns in the world would be a drawing card for many CZ fans.. 

[Claymore504]

  If the poly frame is so important to get into why have they not developed a poly CZ 75....one of the most iconic handguns in the world would be a drawing card for many CZ fans..

They did give this a try with the SP-01 Phantom and it did not last.

[Skookum]

  If the poly frame is so important to get into why have they not developed a poly CZ 75....one of the most iconic handguns in the world would be a drawing card for many CZ fans..

They did give this a try with the SP-01 Phantom and it did not last.

Don't forget that the 1st generation P-07 was labeled a CZ 75 P-07 Duty.  In reality, the P-07 and P-09 are plastic-framed, omega-variants of the venerable 75.  The P-09 is, therefore, your poly 75 (or perhaps a poly 75 SP-01 Omega).  The P-07 and P-09 appear to be lasting.

[GRU7_Mike]

Variants...a P07/9 a SP01...they are not a real, original CZ75.  I would buy a polymer CZ 75 in a heartbeat and I would bet many others would too. They turned out making profits on the P series, but going to a completely different design to make a poly frame pistol when the original 75 model is popular world wide was not the best move or cost effective for the company, CZ could have made.

[Europe]

I shot or owned all contemporary handgun models by CZ. I sold part of my collection because I concluded that some models just don't suit my needs. Therefore, I sold RAMI, Phantom, P0-7. I own couple of all metal CZ models and they are great for either IPSC or bullseye.
 I must however say that I love P-10C. I got mine 6 months after premier and I still think it's one of the best designs for a striker fire pistol. I had a chance to talk to members of the design team which came up with P10 concept. I must also say that I like very much CZ600 series- I would call them "Savage killers".

If you like old school all metal pistols, why don't you look at VIS 100 or Arex 01. I shot both of them and I think they are nice metal pistols.

[Togmaster]

I think they started to lost their way when they decided to "make Glocks",, Plastic striker fired pistols.
I came to own CZs because I had gravitated towards Metal framed, exposed hammer fired, DA/SA pistols, and the unmatched ergonomics of the 75 lineup.
That said, I sacrifice flexibility owning  CZ 75 line up of pistols. I was looking for a oem replacement slide for a P-01 OD,, does not exist, not even CZ will sell you a slide.
I was looking for aftermarket slides for the RAMI and compact,  something that is not rounded on the top at the rear,, to better fit a red dot reflex sight,, does not exist, etc, etc.

Point is, If I am in the market for a plastic striker fired pistol,, it will NOT be a Glock wanna be from CZ with limited to zero aftermarket,, it will be a GLOCK with over 1000 aftermarket slides, etc.

While I agree that the aftermarket support for Glocks is superior to any other striker fired hand gun you may be exaggerating just a little bit about the P10 support. That aside the ergonomics of the P10 series blow Glock away.

[Slackdaddy]

I referred to the P-01,, not P10

While I agree that the aftermarket support for Glocks is superior to any other striker fired hand gun you may be exaggerating just a little bit about the P10 support. That aside the ergonomics of the P10 series blow Glock away.

[Faeruss7]

I am surprised CZ kept the 97B as long as they did. I have nothing against the pistol, I've handled it but thought it was a tough sell. Considering it's legitimately an American-market pistol, it needed to supplant (by design or price) the American-beloved 1911. No doubt it's a better value than most equally-priced 1911s, but a DA/SA is tough to sell over a crisp SA 1911.

I'm about midstream with respect to the average age of a still-shooting gun owner. I grew up shooting revolvers, and I maintain a varied mix of handguns. It's only people older than me that appreciate half of what I bring to the range. Case in point, HRFUNK released a video a few years back regarding a Ruger Flat-top (small-frame, Bisley) Blackhawk (44 Spc). I had to have one. I did some work on it, took it to the range, it's lights-out accurate. When I shoot it next to younger people, it might as well be a flintlock. No appreciation whatsoever.

The writing is on the wall, respecting quality firearms that simply don't interest the younger folks. In fact, CZ (and others) would be very wise to spend their marketing budgets heavily into the insertion of their firearms into video games and airsoft.

Ultimately, the trend is towards utilitarianism (across the board). Getting as many people behind guns, will create opportunities to get them behind better guns. Trends should be leveraged, not fought, there's room for everyone. Appendix-carry has, for instance, caused a resurgence in hammer-fired pistols. The gun-bug will spread, be patient with the youngsters, they'll come around in their own way. CZ will respond accordingly, albeit, imperfectly.

[Slackdaddy]

One thing CZ will have to keep in mind,, 5 years ago an optic cut slide and red dot were an exotic setup, expensive .
Currently, Optic are very affordable and mainstream and desired by many pistol buyers.
In a few years pistol optics will be a must option on a handgun.
With my aging eyes I will not even consider a handgun that is not optic ready,, I made an exception with the CZ, as it felt SO good in my hand. But would not be buying anymore, especially new, until they update their alloy framed pistols to include an "Optics friendly" slide, in other words a slide that has less "rounding off" of the top, in the rear.

[Claymore504]

Great point for sure, Slackdaddy. At this point, companies might as well make all thier handguns optics ready. If you dont want to add an optic, then dont. I am just now getting into optics and my first venture in the pistol optics world is a P09 that I had milled. Really like it, but now, if any warranty issue comes up I would bet CZ will not touch this gun. I really do not see CZ offering factory optics ready 75 series guns and I am not holding my breath on them updating the P07/P09 as optics ready. For us DA/SA guys, optics ready options are just not great. I have since picked up an Elite LTT OR Beretta 92. That gun is not "truly" factory OR, but amazing for sure. I have also aquired a Sig P226RX Legion SAO. Now that is a truly factory optic ready gun. Really liking it so far as well.

I foundout about CZ through a friend and seeked them out after that. The fact is most run of the mill people buying guns have not heard of CZ and will buy whatever is in the case at the box store they visit. CZ has really just become more main stream with the P10 series. They actually caught up pretty quick with the optics ready market as well.

[Slackdaddy]

Another point Against CZ-USA
Why do they refuse to sell replacement slides? This is a major mark against owing a CZ.
I have a P-01 in OD Green, and want to purchase a 2nd (New or used) slide to mill for an optic,, but they do not exist.
I have searched high and low, there was 1 previous Gun Broker sale of a P-01 slide, but it was close to $300 for a WELL WORN stock slide.
This has become a major stumbling block in my CZ ownership.