P-09 dead trigger after lowering hammer

[BlakeInTheWoods]

I just picked up a new p-09. I haven't shot it yet but while inspecting it I noticed something strange. If I lower the hammer by depressing the trigger and let it down with my thumb it sometimes causes the trigger to be dead until I rack the slide. This happens about 1 out of 4 times. The other times the double action trigger works just fine. I took down the pistol and looked inside to see if I could see whats happening. All I can see is that when I get the dead trigger, the trigger bar is spaced a small gap away from the frame. Nudging the trigger bar back tight against the frame will then correct the trigger. This only happens with manually lowering the hammer, not when using the de-cocker.

I called CZ-USA and they said I should use the de-cocker only and that this is fine.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Blake

[Claymore504]

I would just run it for now. Have you cleaned and lubed it? Start with that and fire it and operate it the intended way, by usng the decocker. See how it goes from there.

[Earl Keese]

I just picked up a new p-09. I haven't shot it yet but while inspecting it I noticed something strange. If I lower the hammer by depressing the trigger and let it down with my thumb it sometimes causes the trigger to be dead until I rack the slide. This happens about 1 out of 4 times. The other times the double action trigger works just fine. I took down the pistol and looked inside to see if I could see whats happening. All I can see is that when I get the dead trigger, the trigger bar is spaced a small gap away from the frame. Nudging the trigger bar back tight against the frame will then correct the trigger. This only happens with manually lowering the hammer, not when using the de-cocker.

I called CZ-USA and they said I should use the de-cocker only and that this is fine.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Blake

You should never have a dead trigger in a DA/SA pistol. Hard to believe CZ USA would say that.

[BlakeInTheWoods]

Here's a link to a vid of the trigger bar doing its thing....

https://i.imgur.com/BxyXV2X.mp4

[radagast]

No P09s here, but disassembled two 07s and the trigger bar hugged the frame at all times on both. I can't see what would make one drift out of place as long as the spring is applying proper upward tension.

[CCWLearner]

I would say something doesn't look right about what is happening with your trigger bar.  There shouldn't be a gap between it and the frame.  Looks like something is out of spec in there, with the trigger bar, disconnector, or hammer pin.  Or else it wasn't assembled correctly between the hammer pin, disconnector, and trigger bar.  The disconnector should ride in a groove on the hammer pin and rotate forward, down over the top of the rear end of the trigger bar.  When you have the frame detail stripped, you can test and see the range of motion on these parts, without the hammer spring in the frame, as long as you have the trigger bar spring in place.

That answer you got from CZ-USA doesn't sound right either.  It is indeed hard to believe they would say that.

You say you just picked this pistol up, new in the box?

[BlakeInTheWoods]

You say you just picked this pistol up, new in the box?

Yes, new in the box.

[CCWLearner]

You say you just picked this pistol up, new in the box?

Yes, new in the box.

You should call them back and insist on sending it in for warranty repair, then.  There's absolutely no legitimate reason your DA trigger shouldn't re-engage 100% of the time, after the hammer drops for any reason, whether you use the decocker or ex. have a light strike and need to shoot double-action with the hammer fully dropped.

[Bdubbs]

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=118339.0

[GenMandalore]

<a href="https://imgur.com/BxyXV2X"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/BxyXV2X.mp4" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

This is literally the exact same issue I am having. New in box, I picked up this past Thursday. Starting happening at the range, under 100 rounds. Pending reply from CZ.

[GenMandalore]

This is literally the exact same issue I am having. New in box, I picked up this past Thursday. Starting happening at the range, under 100 rounds. Pending reply from CZ.

CZ told me to send it to them. But I cannot repeat the issue since my first range trip. I'm going to hold on to it, and do my dry fire routine, see if I can repeat it.

[Joe L]

Take a look at this video, especially on the views showing the trigger bar and trigger bar spring, and see if you can see something different on your pistols. 

https://youtu.be/ChRsfL_xyHs

Also this one. 

https://youtu.be/oS7LzkUQlt8

[bonj]

I just picked up a new p-09. I haven't shot it yet but while inspecting it I noticed something strange. If I lower the hammer by depressing the trigger and let it down with my thumb it sometimes causes the trigger to be dead until I rack the slide. This happens about 1 out of 4 times. The other times the double action trigger works just fine. I took down the pistol and looked inside to see if I could see whats happening. All I can see is that when I get the dead trigger, the trigger bar is spaced a small gap away from the frame. Nudging the trigger bar back tight against the frame will then correct the trigger. This only happens with manually lowering the hammer, not when using the de-cocker.

I called CZ-USA and they said I should use the de-cocker only and that this is fine.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Blake

I always manually decocked my non-plastic CZ's and have never had a such result.

[nkresho]

I have a similar behavior with my p07 as well.  Sometimes it would fail to reset when dry firing in SA or DA.  No click as trigger gets all the way forward.  Sometimes it stayed loose and i coudl pull it back all the way with no engagement, other times it would reset when i applied just a tiny bit of rearward trigger pressure.

Mine has the CGW pro kit in it with the short reset

Took it all the way apart, wiped and re greased, then reassembled.  Nothing apparent as broken or out of place.

I did tighten (bend upward) the trigger bar spring (i think that's what it's called) a bit to put additional pressure on the trigger bar.  That seems to have resolved the totally dead trigger issue, but i still have instances where it doesn't reset at rest, but does with slight rearward trigger pressure.

Same issue as above, the trigger bar is a mm away from the frame when it happens.

Here's an example (the third pull needs pressure to reset)

https://youtu.be/GKpB_eEURgE 

[nkresho]

little update for my dead trigger issue...

Took the whole sear cage out and apart a few more times and still got dead trigers a few times out of 100 or so dry fires.  Too many for me to call dependable.

I was about to order a new trigger bar and a few other parts and decided to try it out one last time with the decocker out and safety in place.

Completely resolved the issue.  So a bandaid, as i lost decocker function, but i am fine with that in my situation.

Got a few hundred dryfires so far with not a single dead trigger, will post back here andedit this if i do.

Just dropping this here for anyone else who has this issue.  One solution that worked in my case.

Two week update:

So,  I hit the range and put a couple hundred rounds through it and the issue came back.   Even with the safety installed.

Ordered the cgw omega trigger. Will see if that resolves it.

A few weeks later, yes, the omega trigger from CGW did, in fact, fix the issue 100%.  Not a single dead trigger since install.

Later update.  I finally was able to track down the issue and it's twofold.  First, my grip is pretty firm, Weak hand really clamps down and i was pressing my strong hand thumb into the decocker with my weak hand thumb.  With the slide off, gripping as i would in rapid fire (tight grip) i was able to visibly squeezing the polymer of the frame around the rear frame insert.  This squeeze was pushing the trigger bar ever so slightly toward the left side of the gun.  If i used a weak grip or one handed, i was never able to duplicate the problem.  As soon as i clench down on the pistol (as you would for USPSA or any other rapid fire) the dead trigger would come back.

I bought an ebay slightly used trigger bar in hopes that wherever it was contacting might be different from the one I was using. 

Same dead trigger same issue.  So I took the slide off and watched the trigger bar carefully while manipulating the trigger.  I saw that it was sticking against something hidden by the sear. 

Experimenting, since i had an extra trigger bar on hand, i sanded the vertical surface i shaded red in the pic below.  I used 400 grit and went slow, taking off only a tiny bit.  Reassembled and the issue went almost completely away, but if i gripped really hard i could make it do it still.  I proceeded to sand a bit more and the issue completely went away. 



Since then, i've put at least 500 more rounds through it and haev yet to produce a single dead trigger.  Stronger grip, weaker grip, dirty, clean, zero issues now.