Colt will ruin CZ.

[Hammer Time]

Speculation from employee is that the Colt brand is held in such high regard in Europe that they didn't realize all of its boondoggles and relatively low regard held by the American consumer who has seen their dysfunction first-hand, hence the decline in the prestige of the brand.

Interesting. That makes it sound like not even basic due diligence was not done. Which is particularly amazing, given that while CZ is obviously Euro-owned, they already had quite a few staff in the U.S. prior to the Colt acquisition, who could have given insight on the 'lay of the land,' so to speak.

I have not given up entirely on Colt, by any means. I'd say their QC has been hit-and-miss as of late, and I question how modernized their operations actually are, but I think they are still capable of making a quite good product, when they put their mind to it. But regardless of that, acquiring Colt and then turning the reigns over to them, when you already have a facility and staff in Kansas City, is a head-scratcher, to put it mildly.

And, as a long-time DW fan, I'm also increasingly concerned about what this all means for them as well.

[RSR]

Speculation from employee is that the Colt brand is held in such high regard in Europe that they didn't realize all of its boondoggles and relatively low regard held by the American consumer who has seen their dysfunction first-hand, hence the decline in the prestige of the brand.

Interesting. That makes it sound like not even basic due diligence was not done. Which is particularly amazing, given that while CZ is obviously Euro-owned, they already had quite a few staff in the U.S. prior to the Colt acquisition, who could have given insight on the 'lay of the land,' so to speak.

I have not given up entirely on Colt, by any means. I'd say their QC has been hit-and-miss as of late, and I question how modernized their operations actually are, but I think they are still capable of making a quite good product, when they put their mind to it. But regardless of that, acquiring Colt and then turning the reigns over to them, when you already have a facility and staff in Kansas City, is a head-scratcher, to put it mildly.

And, as a long-time DW fan, I'm also increasingly concerned about what this all means for them as well.

The thread excepting the original post was still there w/ the alleged employee replying throughout when I posted the link earlier in this thread.

Alleged employee stated Colt thinks their 1911s are of similar quality to Dan Wesson's so thinks DW is going way of dinosaur...

[USMCE4retired]

 I hope this doesn't end up like what happened  with Sears and K-Mart here in the US.
Sears was supposedly having financial trouble, decided to merge with K-Mart, who was doing well.
After the merger Sears was some how the entity in charge.  Got rid of K-Mart upper management and used mid management to travel around and liquidate K-Mart stores around the country.
 Where are all the Sears and K-Mart stores now??? Not too many around now, are there!
I can't help feeling that CZ and Colt are going down the same path.
The three-piece suits get theirs and move on.  Hang the rest.

 My wife worked at K-Mart for a very long time and we watched this all transpire before our eyes.
Nothing a common worker can do but shake their head and carry on.

[bonj]

I loved Sears and K-Mart, I still have a Sears Kenmore washer and dryer that work fine with a few minor glitches. Hope CZ doesn't follow suit.

[Skookum]

I'm hoping much of what we're seeing can be attributable to a  cultural difference.  Typically, Czechs are more formal and polite than Americans.

Etiquette
Social interaction is not much different from that in other central European countries; compared to that in the United States, it is rather formal. This formality is in part caused by the Czech language, which has two forms of the second-person personal pronoun. The "familiar" form is used to address a member of the family, a good friend of long standing, or a child or by a child addressing another child. The "polite" form is used in more formal situations. It is not uncommon for colleagues of similar age in neighboring offices to use the formal form when talking with each other.

The tendency toward formal behavior is strengthened by the tradition of using titles. The use of someone's first name is limited to older family members addressing younger ones and to very good friends. It usually takes daily contact over a number of years before people are on a first-name basis. Much less informal contact reinforces the social distance between people. Because Czech apartments are small, invitations to visit and casual dropping by occur only among good friends.
…
–https://www.everyculture.com/Cr-Ga/Czech-Republic.html

In addition, after being taken for granted by Austria, tyrannized by Germany, then by the Soviet Union, I'm sure Czechs learned to avoid speaking freely in public.

A formal, polite, and restrained people are not likely to publicly proclaim Colt management to be buffoons.

Did CZ overpay for Colt?  If they did that doesn't bode well for their future.

[MeatAxe]

I'm hoping much of what we're seeing can be attributable to a  cultural difference.  Typically, Czechs are more formal and polite than Americans.

Etiquette
Social interaction is not much different from that in other central European countries; compared to that in the United States, it is rather formal. This formality is in part caused by the Czech language, which has two forms of the second-person personal pronoun. The "familiar" form is used to address a member of the family, a good friend of long standing, or a child or by a child addressing another child. The "polite" form is used in more formal situations. It is not uncommon for colleagues of similar age in neighboring offices to use the formal form when talking with each other.

The tendency toward formal behavior is strengthened by the tradition of using titles. The use of someone's first name is limited to older family members addressing younger ones and to very good friends. It usually takes daily contact over a number of years before people are on a first-name basis. Much less informal contact reinforces the social distance between people. Because Czech apartments are small, invitations to visit and casual dropping by occur only among good friends.
…
–https://www.everyculture.com/Cr-Ga/Czech-Republic.html

In addition, after being taken for granted by Austria, tyrannized by Germany, then by the Soviet Union, I'm sure Czechs learned to avoid speaking freely in public.

A formal, polite, and restrained people are not likely to publicly proclaim Colt management to be buffoons.

Did CZ overpay for Colt?  If they did that doesn't bode well for their future.

Well, the polite, urbane Czechs at CZ UB better wise up fast and find their balls before they get their lunch eaten by Colt’s incompetent management and heavily unionized employees manning Colt’s dilapidated obsolete factory — not to mention, the state of CT looking for the first excuse to sue them out of existence “because gun violence.”

It’s not looking good so far.

[RSR]

I hope this doesn't end up like what happened  with Sears and K-Mart here in the US.
Sears was supposedly having financial trouble, decided to merge with K-Mart, who was doing well.
After the merger Sears was some how the entity in charge.  Got rid of K-Mart upper management and used mid management to travel around and liquidate K-Mart stores around the country.
 Where are all the Sears and K-Mart stores now??? Not too many around now, are there!
I can't help feeling that CZ and Colt are going down the same path.
The three-piece suits get theirs and move on.  Hang the rest.

 My wife worked at K-Mart for a very long time and we watched this all transpire before our eyes.
Nothing a common worker can do but shake their head and carry on.

KMart>WalMart at the time IMO...  Target really wasn't on the radar at the time.  Also remember Sears opening up "hometown" or similarly named small-scale Sears stores shortly after the acquisition and KMart's first or second round of shutterings...  EPIC mismanagement.  Was never a huge fan of Sears Dept. stores (too young relative to my age; recall my Gma telling me that it was primary place my Gpa got his business suits though) other than their hand tool center, but much preferred and enjoyed KMart to alternatives.

Last KMart I was in was Killeen, Texas, circa 2010 or so.  Last Sears I was in was San Antonio, Texas, circa 2018.  Both locations are now closed.

I loved Sears and K-Mart, I still have a Sears Kenmore washer and dryer that work fine with a few minor glitches. Hope CZ doesn't follow suit.

Sears Kenmore are Whirlpool rebrands.  Don't think it's a fair or appropriate comparison...  FWIW, our washer and dryer are SK branded.

[RSR]

Well, the polite, urbane Czechs at CZ UB better wise up fast and find their balls before they get their lunch eaten by Colt’s incompetent management and heavily unionized employees manning Colt’s dilapidated obsolete factory — not to mention, the state of CT looking for the first excuse to sue them out of existence “because gun violence.”

It’s not looking good so far.

Problem isn't the unionized employees, it's the lack of investment in modern machinery/updating the factory over the past few decades per my understanding.  That rests w/ management, not employees.

Yes, being Northeast/CT-based is also a problem/liability, but I don't think having unionized employees is in and of itself as important of a concern, except in reference to nat'l security.  As we're talking about private sector unions here, not public employee unions that are a fully protected class.

[DP509]

I hope that CZ will bring Colt up and not that Colt will bring CZ down.

[crash83]

I truly hope not. From a common sense point of view (which is lacking these days) a very successful company merged with a company (Colt) that failing in the general sense. Sure they had the Colt M4 govt contract thing, but really nothing else. The company was obviously ruined from the inside. So, one would hope CZ would squre things away and get them back to success.

I am probably missing some details. What examples do you have pointing to Colt bringing CZ down? For me personally, the demise of the CZ LE/MIL program is what has really hit me hard. When I first got into CZ, I could order guns direct from CZ (which I did many times) through their awesome MIL/LE department guys. I could reach out to them with any questions and they even took suggestions and had LE/MIL only stuff for purchase. The CZ webstore also had discounts for LE/MIL. They have pretty much wiped all of that out.

Colt didn't buy CZ.
They won't ruin anything.

[crash83]

This thread is a trip...went back and read the entire thing. First off Colt, Dan Wesson and CZ are all ran as 3 separate Companies.  CZ has stated this multiple times. Colt doesn't get a say in whether DW makes 1911s or not. If you really believe this, ask yourselves why has Colt been concentrating on making revolvers if they are going to kill off DW and build all the 1911s? Colt is trying to build Colt back up with a cash infusion from CZ.CZ does have a really high opinion of Colt. But if you think they are going to tank themselves to keep Colt mediocre you're nuts. As for the recent CZ discontinued models, other than the 97 and the Rammi you all should know CZ does this all the time and re releases the models under new sku numbers.

[MeatAxe]

Don’t know if I can link threads on different websites here, but there’s a pretty lively and troubling thread over in arfcom GD regarding Colt management actually taking over CZ USA (at least, not sure about CZ UB - yet). Looks pretty grim for CZ customers and aficionados…

Imagine CZ putting Colt, the multiple champions of bankruptcy, in charge of US operations…

[Skookum]

Don’t know if I can link threads on different websites here, but there’s a pretty lively and troubling thread over in arfcom GD regarding Colt management actually taking over CZ USA (at least, not sure about CZ UB - yet). Looks pretty grim for CZ customers and aficionados…

Imagine CZ putting Colt, the multiple champions of bankruptcy, in charge of US operations…

I'll admit that the CZ Group being renamed the Colt CZ Group is concerning.  However, a look at CZG stock price — https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/czg?countrycode=cz — indicates investors seem pleased with the buyout (or merger?).

[MeatAxe]

Don’t know if I can link threads on different websites here, but there’s a pretty lively and troubling thread over in arfcom GD regarding Colt management actually taking over CZ USA (at least, not sure about CZ UB - yet). Looks pretty grim for CZ customers and aficionados…

Imagine CZ putting Colt, the multiple champions of bankruptcy, in charge of US operations…

I'll admit that the CZ Group being renamed the Colt CZ Group is concerning.  However, a look at CZG stock price — https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/czg?countrycode=cz — indicates investors seem pleased with the buyout (or merger?).

Screw “the investors.” I’m a gun buyer, user and CZ aficionado.

“The Investors” don’t know or care jack squat about guns or the Second Amendment. “The investors” would only be too happy to send CZ to the corporate slaughter house for an extra buck short term. This Colt - CZ merger only sounds good to idiots who don’t know anything about the US gun industry and don’t realize that Colt is a rotten house of cards.

[Skookum]

Interestingly, the history of Colt Firearms, as told by Colt's website, is silent on the matter of being bought out by CZ last year:

https://www.colt.com/timeline