New CZ 75 B Jamming

[BradJL]

Hi all - I'm having a problem with a new gun that I hope the forum can help me out with. Last month I bought a new CZ 75 B. The first time I took it to the range, it was badly jamming, both sometimes after racking it and sometimes in the middle of firing a magazine. What was so odd was how strong the jams were. There would only be one bullet inside (so during times when it was in the middle of a magazine, the spent cartridge was successfully ejected) and the slide would be about 90% closed. It was so hard to unjam it that I didn't have the strength to pull back the slide to unjam it. Each time I had to call the range officer, who also didn't have the strength a few times and had to take it in the back office to undo it, I assume with a hammer or something. This happened 3-4 times within only about the first 30 rounds and so I decided to give up on it and take it home. While I did add a little more oil prior to this, I was hoping that what was happening simply called for a more thorough cleaning. So I went home and did that.

Then during my next trip to the range I made it though about 50 rounds without a problem and I was hopeful that my problem was solved, but then it happened again. It seemed a little better than my initial outing, but maybe not since it eventually happened. And again these are bad and very strong jams when they happen. I was very disappointed and frustrated by all of this.

So now I'm wondering if this is a problem with my new gun or maybe an ammo issue? Both times I used the same box of ammo, which was Fiocchi Target Max (this is a Scheels exclusive but I think it is essentially the same as regular Fiocchi target ammo) 115 grain FMJ.

Any help or advice about what I should do would be greatly appreciated!

[AZ_CZ]

Well you’re right: something is wrong. That is atypical behavior for a CZ. first pull the barrel and try a plunk test with your ammo. The new round should just drop in and drop out. Use a lot of different rounds to see if there is an out of spec issue. Not sure how it can jam that hard unless something is out of spec. If you go back to the range try racking rounds then ejecting it manually while pointing down range. I would not recommend loading a live round unless you have a safe shooting area. If that works then try a few rounds. I would also try all this with different ammo. My guess is an out of spec box of ammo, but I have shot a lot of Fiocchi and never had an issue. If you don’t see an obvious cause for this I would send the new gun back to CZ under warranty. What did the test target look like?

[mckg]

Yes; typical of an oversized bullet or case in my experience. Could the ammo be commercial reloads?

Take the barrel out of the gun and plunk what's left of the ammo.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

We know that CZ barrels are notoriously short throated and certain ammo will be an issue. What you describe is how the gun behaves when the bullet has contacted the rifling before it goes into battery.
There's been plenty of complaints about Fiocchi lately so I would start there.
Try a couple boxes of something else like Federal, Remington, Blazer etc. and see how that functions.

[BradJL]

Thanks, all, for the helpful replies. When the final jam happened this weekend, I only had a few cartridges left so I wasn't able to take any home for the plunk test in the barrel.

I'm hoping this is an ammo issue, as many have suggested. The Fiocchi Target Max is pretty cheap stuff...though I've always believed Fiocchi in general was a good brand. My next step will be to take a couple of boxes of a different brand out and see what happens. Hopefully that will solve the problem, and if it doesn't then I guess this is the sign to send it to CZ. I'll have my fingers crossed, because it's so frustrating to put money down on a quality new handgun and then have your excitement dashed by problems when you take it out for the first time.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Here is a recent thread from our own reloading forum.https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=119349.0

[BradJL]

Here is a recent thread from our own reloading forum.https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=119349.0

Thanks for the thread. Very interesting to see that others have had problems with Fiocchi.

"Had failure of slide to close." and "Hard pulling slide back to get it to eject." is exactly my problem as well.

[BradJL]

Ok - I have an update on this. And let me start by saying the knowledge and helpfulness on this board is truly amazing. Thanks a million.

After reading the replies and linked threads you have sent, today I bought 1) a couple boxes of a different brand ammo (Federal) and 2) out of curiosity a box of the same Fiocchi Target Max ammo that I was having the problem with. Both FMJ 115 grain. Then I did the plunk test and, voila, Fiochhi failed the plunk test (see photo) 100% of the time and all the Federal did just fine. Not only would the Fiocchi not rotate once in, but it would stay completely stuck when you turned the barrel upside down. I won't be able to officially shoot the gun again until this weekend, but I'm almost certain this is problem solved. Furthermore, I tried the plunk test in the barrel of a different handgun I own, a Walter PDP, and both ammo brands passed 100%. So it appears that it's just the Fiocchi being a bit too long for my new CZ 75B given the way the barrel/freebore is designed.

I have to say, until 24 hours ago before reading your feedback, I had never even heard of headspace, freebore, etc or assumed that a "normal" box of factory ammo wouldn't work in a standard 9mm handgun. After today I will 1) always plunk test ammo before shooting and 2) never buy Fiocchi again. I just hope that after putting about 100 rounds through the gun OOB trying to diagnose this problem and unjamming it hard multiple times I haven't done any damage. Also, I do think CZ could do a better job of educating consumers on this, even though I'm a fan.

If anyone has never seen it, I found this particular post incredibly helpful. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=114239

Again, thank you all so much for the feedback and super interesting education!

[Skookum]

We know that CZ barrels are notoriously short throated and certain ammo will be an issue.

Why does CZ short throat its 9 Luger barrels?

[M1A4ME]

CZ has a reputation for it.  That doesn't mean all of them are the same or some pistols/barrels that are not from CZ don't exhibit the same thing.

I was loading some .38 special semi wadcutters in 9MM brass to try out.  I had my CZ75 Compact on my hip so I used it to insure the overall length was "good."  Then I got to the range and found out they'd feed/chamber/fire fine in the Compact but jammed my P09 up (same thing that happened to you OP).  Could not get the round out of the chamber and now I carry a cleaning rod in my range bag so if it happens again I can knock the bullet/cartridge out when the bullet jams up against the end of the chamber.

I was loading some 124 grain hollow points for the M&P 5" 9MM.  I didn't have it on me as I was carrying my P01 9MM.  Everyone knows CZs have short chambers, right?  I pulled the barrel out of the P01, used it to insure I had the bullets seated enough and put the P01 back together, loaded it and holstered it.  Got to the range and found out the 5" M&P would not chamber every round.  It has an Apex barrel in it and evidently some of those are even tighter than some CZ barrels.

If you've got multiple 9MM (any caliber most likely)  pistols you need to either load for different overall lengths or determine which one has the shortest chamber and load one overall length short enough for that one pistol.  I hate having one load for one pistol and one for a couple others, etc., etc., etc.

Learning to make good ammo is a journey, not a destination.  The longer you reload, the more you should be learning.

[SoCal]

I have never had a problem shooting any factory ammo.  They all pass plunk test and function fine, however I have never tried the ammo in question and definitely won't.  I doubt it would pass a plunk test in my 9 MM SA 1911, it is also short throat-ed.

Most ammo fits most firearms most of the time but not all of...well you know the rest.

[bonj]

Send it back to CZ for lengthening the throat, like I did. Then you will have no concerns of which ammo brand to use and it won't cost you a penny.

[Rmach]

Send it back to CZ for lengthening the throat, like I did. Then you will have no concerns of which ammo brand to use and it won't cost you a penny.

I totally agree.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

We know that CZ barrels are notoriously short throated and certain ammo will be an issue.

Why does CZ short throat its 9 Luger barrels?

Probably been discussed many times in other threads but I think it has to do with the truncated cone 9mm bullets that were used in Europe years ago. Those bullets had little to no shoulder protruding from the case mouth so bullet contact with the rifling was never an issue.
You would think they would just lengthen the freebore at this point which would be a simple operation given the issues like this that prevail.

[BradJL]

Final update: this morning I shot 100 rounds of the Federal ammo that passed the plunk test and, as expected, no issues at all. I’m really glad to have solved this mystery.