Scorpion 3+ and folding brace

[TShep]

I have the scorpion 3 + micro. This is considered as a pistol right? so if adding a folding brace to it its now a short barreled rifle? Can some one explain to me how this works now with this new ATF rule. This rule is a joke IMO. Should this pistol be considered a rifle and not a pistol being that people are going to add to it anyways? So dang frustrated right now. i bought it as a pistol and it should remain as such even with red dot and folding brace on it.

[Atomic Punk]

I am not a lawyer but read alot over the last few days.

Essentially, BATF is now saying a brace is a stock. You built an illegal SBR but because they said it was legal for over a decade, they are giving you a break. You have 120 days to register it as a SBR on a Form 1 and they are waiving the $200 tax.

If you remove the brace and destroy or dispose of it, you have a pistol again.   

[TShep]

It was not illegal then when first got it and set it up. This rule ATF put out is an entrapment IMO. Maybe they need to change what STOCK means as in pre made that way. Just so many questions right now like i can carry this way it was set up am i able to once its registered as a sbr? How does law look at me if i used it to defend my self compared to using my pistol anything changes there? Can i open carry it or conceal  like i do now. ATF just needs to be defunded and wiped away.

[Atomic Punk]

I agree it is an infringement and wrong. They are doing the bidding of the administration.

If you don't want to jump through all the NFA hoops (it is complicated), just take the brace off.

Mind you, this regulation still hasn't posted to the Federal Register so is not in force yet...and a lot could happen regarding House oversight of ATF, lawsuits, etc. It could get reversed. Stay tuned.

[M300Pilot]

Thanks for saying that.  I am watching, yet confused if it went into effect.  If I am forced to Form 1 it, I might as well have some fun and put a real stock on it.

[TShep]

Yea mines still on locked away at the moment. I want to know how they will know i even have one to start with. And i am standing by for sure waiting. What bothers me the most is i buy the gun then buy other things to put on it  and with this rule would not be able to have it on it like my red dot or tac light ect. so dang frustrating spend my money and they laugh at you. It;s all about the money to them and trying to take away our 2nd

[RSR]

If any imported "pistol" was mounted w/ a brace, then it is now an SBR.  Such would also appear to include any foreign-made handguns that were mounted in a braced chassis...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK4gJeJ_CI4

[Frozencpu]

I am curious perhaps someone can shine some light on this. As per the ATF new rule any imported pistol that had to be converted to an SBR and also be compliant with 922r. With this new dumpster fire it seems as if even those that were imported and A: had brace or B: had it converted to SBR would simply needed to be destroyed, because of the manufacturing intent that it was made into a rifle from the creating of so called pistol "per classification"

Here is my question, since CZ manufactured scorpions here in Kansas City USA, does that leave scorpion as is or no? Examples like certain AR pistols that are made here in USA vs those that are imported like HK MP5 and their clones.

It's just I am as confused as the next guy trying to understand this, even though that chances are 95% of owners will not comply with this dumpster fire of rule and it will get squashed by the Congress as it did couple of years ago or might not.

922r: "It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes…"

[Winston_Smith]

Skorpions are manufactured in the Czech Republic.  CZ used to sell a 922r compliance kit for the Scorpion if you wanted to convert it to an SBR.  They no longer sell that.  However, it's not hard to become 922r compliant.  Make sure you have a US magazine, change the trigger, pistol grip, muzzle device and make sure the brace or stock is American made.  There you have it.

[Frozencpu]

Skorpions are manufactured in the Czech Republic.  CZ used to sell a 922r compliance kit for the Scorpion if you wanted to convert it to an SBR.  They no longer sell that.  However, it's not hard to become 922r compliant.  Make sure you have a US magazine, change the trigger, pistol grip, muzzle device and make sure the brace or stock is American made.  There you have it.

Scorpions are made here in the USA. This was from one of the sites that did the review but I am sure they would confirm that if you sent them an inquire. But if for example the scorpion was made in Czech and was imported here, then per ATF new rule it would have to be destroyed as those would no longer can be classified as pistols that can be made into SBR's. The best example would be the Bren 2 pistols with short barrels as those were all made in Czech Republic.

"CZ   Czech Republic and USA   Z?eská zbrojovka does most of its manufacturing in the Czech Republic, but makes the P-10 series handgun and the Scorpion in Kansas City, Kansas. CZ also owns Colt."

[Atomic Punk]

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

https://thereload.com/atf-says-imported-braced-guns-can-be-registered-rule-to-be-published-next-week/

[RSR]

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

https://thereload.com/atf-says-imported-braced-guns-can-be-registered-rule-to-be-published-next-week/

So if imported w/ brace, it's now kosher so long as not "assembled" by end user?

Note that BATF in the past has tended to define "assembly" broadly, as any modification of your firearm -- changed muzzle device, handguard, or potentially even used a magazine other than that it was imported with (since magazines are potentially three 922r parts), then you may not technically be eligible...

Burden of proof would be on the gov't, but this is still a mess.

[TShep]

Ok so if i bought my gun with the brace then they would already know about it right? and if i bought the gun which did not come with a brace then they do not know right ? ( bought the brace separate BTW )  Also is there a list of all the guns that may be excluded from this so called rule? I mean my scorpion 3 plus micro barrel is like 4.2 inches making this rule a bit laughable. Can i shoulder it ? yea i can but it is awkward to do so if anything the folding brace would actually rest on my biceps.

[Winston_Smith]

Skorpions are manufactured in the Czech Republic.  CZ used to sell a 922r compliance kit for the Scorpion if you wanted to convert it to an SBR.  They no longer sell that.  However, it's not hard to become 922r compliant.  Make sure you have a US magazine, change the trigger, pistol grip, muzzle device and make sure the brace or stock is American made.  There you have it.

Scorpions are made here in the USA. This was from one of the sites that did the review but I am sure they would confirm that if you sent them an inquire. But if for example the scorpion was made in Czech and was imported here, then per ATF new rule it would have to be destroyed as those would no longer can be classified as pistols that can be made into SBR's. The best example would be the Bren 2 pistols with short barrels as those were all made in Czech Republic.
"CZ   Czech Republic and USA   Z?eská zbrojovka does most of its manufacturing in the Czech Republic, but makes the P-10 series handgun and the Scorpion in Kansas City, Kansas. CZ also owns Colt."

My Scorpion clearly says "Made in Czech Republic."  I don't know if manufacturing or assembly has moved here.  In any event, it's the number of foreign parts that matter, not necessarily the place of assembly.  As for the Bren, you can buy a 922r compliance kit to bring it into compliance.  Not cheap, and ridiculously annoying to have to do this.  But that's where we are.

[Winston_Smith]

ATF Says Imported Braced-Guns Can be Registered, Rule to be Published Next Week

https://thereload.com/atf-says-imported-braced-guns-can-be-registered-rule-to-be-published-next-week/

So, this is great news.  I'm not sure how ATF justifies it but I will take it.