Put the Apex trigger kit in my P10F...

[2Princetons]

...last night and I have to say the Apex Youtube installation video is excellent. I read the comments before doing mine, and a few commenters said that the P10 used in the video had obviously been apart several times because the roll pins came out so easily, and a few of them said they even bent punch pins trying to get roll pins out.

Because of that, I used my pin oiler to oil the roll pins ~12hrs beforehand. The nozzle of my pin oiler fits nicely inside the pins. I think pre-oiling might have helped, my installation went well & I didn't bend any of my punches.

Results? Well, with the stock trigger & maybe 150 rounds & 150 dryfires on the gun, my Wheeler Spring Gauge averaged about 4.8#'s, plus or minus 0.3#

After installing the full Apex kit (trigger shoe, disconnector, & rear slide cover) my pulls were a very consistent 3.8#. That's consistent with Apex's claim of sub-4#.

I then swapped in a standard Glock striker spring (5.5#) with Glock spring cups, and the trigger tested a very consistent 4.0# even. Wrong way...

I just swapped in a Wolff 5.0# spring with Glock cups, the trigger pulls are now a very consistent 3.5#

I'll try it at the range tomorrow. I had that Wolff 5.0# spring in my Glock 34.3 briefly, but had some light strikes with the bargain-basement MaxxTech ammo I shoot. Turns out occasional light strikes annoy me even more than big groups, so the stock striker spring went back into the Glock. I hope the CZ does better with the Wolff 5.0#

One disappointment - when stock my P10F had a pretty firm break...the Apex kit is said to give a rolling break, but bleep, that's a lotta roll before it fires.  I haven't measured it, but it seems like it has about 1/4" of take-up before the wall, then another ~3/16" of roll before finally breaking with minimal over-travel. . The Timney kit in my Glock 34 has a much firmer break.  I guess I'll see what effect the difference makes to my group sizes tomorrow.

[Whereisit]

I installed the hbi trigger in my p10c and F. No issues at all with roll pins or bending punches. The p10c was the first gun I've ever taken apart that far. Imo..it was an easy install.

Now my vp9? It can be a bit frustrating. There is a pin that has to be taken out from the inside out. It's so tight in there you feel as if you are about to crack the frame. The trigger return spring isn't to fun eitherm

[Joe L]

2Princetons--

Maybe try a CGW striker with the Apex disconnector and an assortment of striker springs if you don't like the trigger feel after a little range time. 

I like the roll trigger of the Apex disconnector myself but I can certainly see why one may decide it is not crisp enough and will go back to the factory disconnector ramp. 

[2Princetons]

The P10F with the full Apex kit & a Wolff 5.0# striker spring didn't have any misfires. But I don't shoot it nearly as well as my Glock 34.3 w/ a Timney trigger.

I think I'll go back to the factory CZ disconnector, leave the Wolff 5.0# spring, and check the trigger pull weight. I might even try my Wolff 4.5# striker spring to see if I can get the original crisp break with a pull weight under 4lbs and still ignite the MaxxTech ammo reliably.

When I go to the range I usually take a .22 rifle along. I'm really spoiled by the 2.25# Accu-Trigger on my Savage MkII & the 2.5# Ruger BX-Trigger, both of which have really crisp breaks.

[Joe L]

Yep, experiment some more.  Good luck with your search for the perfect striker trigger. 

Today is not a good day for me to be offering any additional advice, LOL.  I just got home from shooting my CGW 97B"E" at 100 yards in gusty high wind conditions, and still managed a few good groups.  The trigger is perfect for me--kind of a roll trigger--a very smooth but not crisp break and about 3.5 lb pull, from what I remember.  Golly, it is nice.  I'm going to shoot it more over the next few weeks. 

Maybe my trigger bars will arrive before I run out of Atlanta Arms 185 gr JHP match ammo for the 97.

Joe L

[2Princetons]

OK, I just put the factory disconnector back in, leaving the Apex trigger shoe & rear slide cover, and the Wolff 5.0# striker spring in. While dry firing the crisp(ish) break was back, but the trigger pull weight was right around 4.25# consistently.  (the stock P10F was around 4.8#)

So I swapped out the Wolff 5.0#striker spring for a Wolff 4.5# spring, still using Glock retainer cups. (When I messed with hotrods as a kid we called similar valve spring retainers "keepers")

With the Apex shoe & backplate, & Wolff 4.5# striker spring the trigger pull weight is a consistent 3.9# with a firm break. I'll head back to the range tomorrow to see if it will fire the MaxxTech ammo consistently.

JoeL...it seems to me with the Apex disconnector's altered ramp angle we're trading a crisp break with a higher trigger pull weight, for a reduced trigger pull with a longer, "rolling" break. I don't know, but I suspect that swapping the factory striker for an aftermarket one like the Overwatch or CGW might be similar trade-off...I saw a Youtube comparing the Overwatch to a CZ striker, and the working angle on the Overwatch was not as steep. Basic "triggernometry"?

[Joe L]

The steeper the angle of the striker contact surface (more of a hook) the harder it is to pull the trigger since more striker spring pressure must be overcome before the disconnector moves the trigger bar down off the striker.  At the extreme, a flat, no hook, perpindicular angle at the striker would result in no additional movement of the striker rearward and less of a wall, but also no hook to keep the trigger bar engaged if the gun is bumped or even in recoil impact.  There are tradeoffs.  Be careful. 

[2Princetons]

Just got back from the range. The P10F with the Apex trigger shoe & backplate, and a Wolff 4.5# striker spring fired 50 for 50, and my accuracy was improved. This setup results in a ~3.9# trigger pull with a pretty crisp break (factory striker & disconnector). That's good enough...

But I just have to know if the P10 will tolerate my remaining Wolff striker spring, the 4.0#. 

I just installed it, the trigger pull is now ~3.75#. Back to the range tomorrow to see how it likes the MaxxTech ammo.  If not, going back to the 4.5# Wolff spring wouldn't be the end of the world.

[2Princetons]

OK, looks like the Wolff 4.0# striker spring isn't going to work out in my P10F.  I had 2 light strikes out of 25 rounds. The CZ fired one of them when I gave it a second chance, one didn't. My Glock 34.3 fired that round Perfectly^TM.

I'll put the Wolff 4.5# striker spring back in the P10F, and leave the Apex trigger shoe & backplate in.

After I put the P10F aside I shot my Glock 34.3 with the Timney trigger and got the 5 best 5-round groups I've shot so far in 9mm.

My Plan For The Rest Of My Shooting Career (subject to change tomorrow, or maybe next week at the latest):

I've got a Ruger MkIII that has a factory trigger that's broken in to a repeatable 2.75# break. I put a Holosun 407C on it and shoot it when my ego needs a boost. I've also got a S&W Model 17 that I nearly always shoot double-action to help me improve my trigger control.

I think I'll do something similar with my 9mm's...get the Timney'd 34.3 milled for a 407C for when I want to see some of the holes touching, and leave the P10F at a ~3.9# trigger pull to work on my trigger control.

[Joe L]

That's a good plan. 

It takes me 20-60 rounds to get back to good control of a pistol I haven't shot recently, regardless of how good the trigger is, as each one is "different", LOL.

Joe L

[2Princetons]

That's a good plan. 

It takes me 20-60 rounds to get back to good control of a pistol I haven't shot recently, regardless of how good the trigger is, as each one is "different", LOL.

Joe L

Yeah, I usually start off shooting an 8-pack target of .22's before $witching to 9mm's. And thanks for your input on my P10 tweaks.

[M1A4ME]

I don't own a P10 and have never had one apart.

On the 2.0 M&Ps, at least the later ones, S&W has modified the striker.  The very front/bottom of it, where it contacts the sear, has had the straight face cut back in a 10 degree angle.  In my guns, that slight angle reduces the trigger pull weight.  The strikers milled/made that way are even stamped with a "10" on one side of what I call the dog leg, that sticks down from the main/cylindrical part of the striker.

Is the face area of the P10 striker straight all the way to the bottom?

[2Princetons]

You can see the factory striker in this Youtube (I paused it when the "face" is exposed)

https://youtu.be/hJo0xAenBxI?t=274

Here's the Overwatch Striker:


And here's a CGW striker: