Author Topic: SS Rod After a Period of Service.  (Read 85231 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaems

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #90 on: December 11, 2016, 04:03:20 PM »
The factory flat spring, in my PCR, works fine with the SS rod.

Offline RingingEars

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2017, 11:49:44 AM »
Just adding my experience a couple days ago...
I ordered a SS rod for my new PCR from Custom a few days ago before reading all the SS rod do's-n-don'ts on replacing it in a PCR. I noticed the rod that CZUSA sells says to not use the flatwire spring so I called CZ to clarify if it was OK to use a SS rod in a PCR and to order a new spring. The gal I talked to transferred over to their gun smith who told me not to put a SS rod in a PCR. He said it doesn't allow the frame to move the way the plastic rod does and could cause uneven wear on the slide rails... So it looks like I will put my new SS rod the parts bin at least until the warranty is up.
Just a heads up...

Offline Mutt208

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #92 on: November 04, 2017, 12:34:28 PM »
Never had an issue with plastic guide rods. If it aint broke don't fix it!

Offline Texf6

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2018, 08:34:29 AM »
All my CZ clones from Canik or Tangfolio have steel guide rods including the “alloy steel” ones, as they call it to include the T100, T120, and C100.  Why is this not an issue with these arms?  Is the “alloy steel” more durable than CZ’s aluminum frames?

Texf6

Offline Slingin9mm

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #94 on: April 21, 2018, 12:48:41 PM »
I just picked up a stainless steel guide rod from ssguiderods.com, mine is the CZ 75 P-01 it has the flatwire spring also. I just installed it in the pistol but haven't shot it yet, I got it cause the polymer guide rod was starting to droop real bad.

If anyone has any information if this is safe to use in my pistol, I did contact CZ USA about it waiting on a reply.

Offline Slingin9mm

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2018, 03:07:21 AM »
Well here is my results after a few hundred rounds.  I was using the ssguiderods.com one & this is what happened to me frame I was told that you have to use the round spring.

https://imgur.com/bpN4fGc

https://imgur.com/O99DURv

Offline Joost

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #96 on: May 05, 2018, 06:09:24 AM »
Just adding my experience a couple days ago...
I ordered a SS rod for my new PCR from Custom a few days ago before reading all the SS rod do's-n-don'ts on replacing it in a PCR. I noticed the rod that CZUSA sells says to not use the flatwire spring so I called CZ to clarify if it was OK to use a SS rod in a PCR and to order a new spring. The gal I talked to transferred over to their gun smith who told me not to put a SS rod in a PCR. He said it doesn't allow the frame to move the way the plastic rod does and could cause uneven wear on the slide rails... So it looks like I will put my new SS rod the parts bin at least until the warranty is up.
Just a heads up...

The aluminium framed shadowline compact comes from factory with a stainles guide rod,and works perfect.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3090
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #97 on: May 05, 2018, 04:40:33 PM »
Never had an issue with ss rods in any of my CZ's.

Offline NoGoodLoser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #98 on: July 17, 2018, 11:11:16 PM »
Guess I'm taking the SS guide rod out of my PCR when I get home.

Offline Walt Sherrill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #99 on: March 30, 2019, 07:57:22 PM »
Regarding steel guide rods in alloy-framed guns...

This was a SUBJECT that I initiated here on the CZ Forum many years ago, when I was a moderator on the forum at the time, when the alloy-framed compacts were first introduced. I think this topic can still be found in the FAQ area.   A lot of CZ owners thought the plastic guide rods were cheap and coudln't stand them.
 
When I first posted this information being discussed, I did so because Mike Eagleshield, then head gunsmith at CZ-USA, told me that CZ-USA had observed damage to the receiver stop area of alloy compacts from the wear caused by the steel guide rods, and that it was CZ's position (at that time) to no longer honor warranty repairs  for that issue.  He said, at that time, that CZ-USA would not knowingly sell a steel guide rod to someone with a PCR (the only alloy-framed gun available at the time).  I shared that information with the forum as I learned it, and it was later made a topic in the FAQ area. 

Perhaps this has all changed?  It may be the new FORGED alloy frames (first with the P-01 and now with the PCR/75D, are more durable than the earlier cast frames.  It may also be that the alloy mix used by CZ has changed, and the frames are now more robust than before.   Has anyone gotten a DEFINITIVE ANSWER to this question from someone at CZ or CZ-USA?   

The role of the guide rod.

The guide rod's main function in most guns seems to be to make assembly and disassembly easier when field stripping.  But the base of the guide rod it does form a base against which the recoil spring can press as the slide moves to the rear.  And that base, with the CZ design, rests in a notch in the frame called the Receiver stop as the slide moves to the rear.  Functionally, most guide rods seem to have almost no effect on accuracy or reliability, whether they are metal or plastic, short or full-length.

As to why there MAY be wear in some CZs from a metal guide rod:  It's easy to overlook the fact that the base of the guide stays pressed against the receiver stop as the slide goes back, and that base (when the guide rod is in a compact gun) will tilt far more than base of the guide rod in a full-size gun.   There is very little barrel tilt in a full-size gun. 

Were the guide rod not there, the spring would still press against the receiver stop area, and there's so little room in that part of the gun, that there's really no place for the spring to go (or to be guided to), so it just compresses.  It's very likely that the gun would still function without a guide rod.
  • I do know that a full-size CZ will function properly without a guide rod installed.  (I couldn't test functionality with a compact model -- as my only "compact" CZ is a P-07, which has a "captured" guide rod and spring assembly.
The amount of barrel tilt seen in the compact models is much greater than is seen with the full-size models, which probably explains why the plastic guide rods in compact guns show kinks or bends --- the plastic guide rods CAN kink, the metal ones can't.  Those kinks or bends, however, don't seem to affect function.

Note:Some years back, SIG switched from metal to plastic guide rods, and SIG owners raised hell!  SIG returned to metal guide rods -- for a while.  NOW, maybe a decade later, it looks as though all SIGs come with plastic guide rods.  Many people consider it a cost-cutting technique, and that may be true, but some experts familiar with materials have explained that the plastic used in these (and other) guide rods have a higher lubricity (natural slickness) than do most metals.  CZ's and SIG's use of plastic may not have been a way to cut costs but was simply a choice of a better material for the task at hand.
  • I once had a SIG P-226 X-Five Competition (a SA model in .40).  It had a very complex guide rod assembly, and nearly all of it was plastic. I don't think SIG cut many corners on that gun, and if there was a plastic guide rod in that gun, I'm pretty sure it wasn't there to save money.
Re: NATO testing and certification.

At one time much was made of the NATO serial numbers assigned to the initial P-01 models, and the testing the gun had to go through to earn that NATO Serial Number.  As another person posting in this same discussion has noted, it may have all been much ado about nothing.  As best I can tell, by reading the news releases at the time and researching it futher since then, the intense testing done was to get the P-01 accepted by the Czech National Police, not by or for NATO certification.
  • NATO doesn't test any of the NATO "certified" weapons.  Each weapon maker just makes the guns in a way that meets various NATO standards.
It simply appears that some CZ enthusiasts just confused/conflated/mixed the different new releases and misunderstood what was being announced by CZ, and others picked up on what was being mistakenly stated.

CZ changed their production methods a few years back for the P-01, apparently doing so to get more standardization in parts production.  I assume that these changes were also applied to other guns being produced at the time.  When they did that, they dropped the NATO certification claim and no longer showed the NSN on the P-01 model.  I doubt that it really matters, as any military in NATO that wants to use a particular weapon will certainly do so, but they'll be darned sure to pick a gun that handles the NATO standard ammo.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 10:34:16 AM by Walt Sherrill »

Offline 1984Landcruiser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2019, 09:54:10 PM »
[quote author=Walt Sherrill

CZ changed their production methods a few years back for the P-01, apparently doing so to get more standardization in parts production.  I assume that these changes were also applied to other guns being produced at the time.  When they did that, they dropped the NATO certification claim and no longer showed the NSN on the P-01 model.  I doubt that it really matters, as any military in NATO that wants to use a particular weapon will certainly do so, but they'll be darned sure to pick a gun that handles the NATO standard ammo.
[/quote]

I recently purchased a P-01 made in January 2019 that has a NATO serial number.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Walt Sherrill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2019, 01:22:37 PM »
Re: a recently made (2019) P-01 with the NATO Serial Number. 

The NSN was discontinued and there was a CZUB and CZ-USA press release addressing the change a while back (years?)    Have they started showing the NSN again? 

Or was this an example of parts being pulled from a storage bin and assembled, the guns run through the rest of the process (racking the slides on the mechanism) using an older P-01 slide (with NSN) being mixed with a newer lower assembly, with the date applied (in the little oval) as the gun was readied for shipment.  We've heard of other examples of this assembly practice -- perhaps anecdotal -- in the past. 

I don't know how to explain a 2019 P01 with NSN, but there are a number of P-01s now out there without the NSN.   

Offline 1984Landcruiser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: SS Rod After a Period of Service.
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2019, 11:28:04 PM »
Here is mine with a NSN that was produced in Jan 2019




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

anything