Author Topic: The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review  (Read 10148 times)

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dleong

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« on: July 30, 2002, 09:26:04 AM »
Hello, all.

Yesterday evening, I took delivery of my NIB 40 cal. CZ100 at the local pistol range. The serial number is in the B70XX range and the test target indicates a test fire date of 4/6/00.

After cleaning off the preserving oil, I noticed that there was a very deep gouge in the top right edge of the slide between the ejection port and front serrations. The gouge was about 1/4" long and 1/8" deep and appears to have originated at the factory as it was coated with black polymer like the rest of the slide (in other words, if it were shipping or handling damage, I would have expected exposed steel in the gouge).

As for the workmanship of my particular CZ100, I shall be brutally honest here: it is pitifully substandard. To wit:

1. Aside from the aforementioned gouge, there are very visible circular machining marks in all of the cocking serrations (there are machining marks on the inside surfaces of the slide, but I am not too concerned about those).

2. The gas ports were not deburred on the inside of the slide, resulting in severe scratching of the barrel.

3. Mold separation lines are very visible on the polymer frame.

Let's talk about the trigger.

Prior to getting the CZ100, my only experience with DAO triggers had been the Walther P99 QA, which a gentleman at the range let me shoot some weeks ago. I recall that the trigger take-up was long but smooth, with a very crisp break.

On my CZ100, the trigger travels grittily through several time zones before stacking heavily, after which it requires considerable effort to effect the break. I discharged about 40 rounds of my relatively mild handloads (155 gr. Rainier TMJ atop 6.2 gr. of Universal Clays at an OAL of 1.125") from a sandbagged, benchrest position at 15 yards in order to determine the accuracy of the pistol. In my first five-shot string, not a single bullet hit the target. I did notice that the ridiculous amount of effort required to overcome the last bit of stacking to break the trigger was throwing my aim off, so I resorted to the DeathGrip(tm) technique for subsequent shots and started seeing some holes on the target sheets (though nowhere near the bullseye). The absurdly high trigger effort was still throwing my aim off, and I do not know if I shall ever be able to shoot the CZ100 as accurately as my other 40 cal. pistol, the CZ 75B. In fact, I had to stop after just 40 rounds because my trigger finger was aching badly.

I should point out that I currently own three other all-steel CZ pistols (a 9mm 75B, a 40 cal. 75B and the 45 cal. 97B) and could not be happier with them. All three are uncannily accurate and exhibit levels of workmanship typically found in pistols costing twice as much. That said, I find the CZ100 to be an embarrassment to CZ's otherwise stellar line of pistols. The poor workmanship exhibited by my CZ100 makes me wonder how it ever got past CZ's quality control, and the trigger mechanism is a bad joke. It almost seems like the CZ100 was designed and manufactured by a totally different company.

In all, I am extremely disappointed in my purchase of the CZ100, and shall be selling it off at the earliest opportunity. I realize this review may not sit well with the CZ100 afficionados on this board, but I hope you appreciate its candidness.

DL

Offline czhead

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2002, 09:42:38 AM »
I would think that anyone who is accustomed to the CZ line would take this weapon back to the dealer or call CZ direct.
The weapon you describe sounds like it has been in a train wreck.

CZ75ID

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2002, 11:57:07 AM »
I agree.If you feel that aside from the trigger..the gun is not up to usual CZ standards. Then contact CZ_USA.

CZF is for any and all information about CZs Good or Bad, We want to hear about it.

Note. most people are more than pleased with the workmanship and accuracy of their CZ-100, given that
they accept the long, but in most cases, Smooth DAO
pull.

I'll term the 100s trigger a 'unique" as it takes some
getting used to. The other qualities of the gun make up for it's  Unique trigger..and it is just a wonderful design with
excellent ergonomics and above average accuracy in my
opinion.

I think that my trigger is actually getting smoother and
maybe even lighter with use. OR i'm just getting into the
'groove' of being a very satisfied CZ-100 owner.

dleong

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 12:16:53 PM »
Thanks for the responses thus far. I contacted Mike at CZ-USA this morning and explained the cosmetic issue (i.e., the gouge on the slide) to him. His response was (and I am paraphrasing here), "Well, if it isn't affecting the functioning of the pistol, what's wrong?"

I then contacted the internet dealer from whom I purchased it, and he agreed to exchange it. I shall be sending my CZ100 back to him this afternoon.

Something I neglected to mention in the original message: I really do like the ergonomics of the CZ100, especially the grips, which seemed custom-made for my hands.  The hideous trigger, however, completely negates that advantage.

DL

Offline czhead

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 03:53:02 PM »
Please for me, explain " His response was (and I am paraphrasing here), "Well, if it isn't affecting the functioning of the pistol, what's wrong?"
Mr. Dleong, do you mean he was unappreciative of the fact that your weapon arrived in an unsatisfactory condition?

While he may not enjoy a position of being able to consent to a return and full refund of an otherwise unacceptable product, I would have thought he might least have taken the time to steer you to Marty or someone else who depends on sales volume for their livelyhood.

Please expand on your conversation with him.

dleong

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 05:37:07 PM »
Quote
Quote:
Please for me, explain " His response was (and I am paraphrasing here), "Well, if it isn't affecting the functioning of the pistol, what's wrong?"
Mr. Dleong, do you mean he was unappreciative of the fact that your weapon arrived in an unsatisfactory condition?

Yes, that was the distinct impression that I got.

As I recall, I described the gouge in detail to Mike, highlighting the fact that it was polymered (if that is a word) over and thus must have originated at the factory sometime during the manufacturing process. He then suggested that if the gouge was introduced at the factory, it "must be normal." I then asked if CZ could possibly do something about it, as I felt this condition fell under the "defects in material and workmanship" clause in their warranty (I had the warranty card in front of me during the phone conversation). He then asked if the gouge was affecting the operation of the pistol, to which I replied that it did not. He then said, "Well, then?"

At that point, I didn't push the matter any further, and decided to contact the internet dealer. I fault no one but myself for not being persistent enough, but I am not the confrontational type.

In retrospect, Mike sounded like he was in a rush and wanted to conclude the phone conversation quickly, but he was in no way impolite.

So there you have it. My CZ100 goes back to the internet dealer tomorrow morning for an exchange, so all should (hopefully) end well.

DL

Offline czhead

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2002, 08:07:00 PM »
Your interpretation of the conversation reminds me of complaints I have seen in our "CLONES" section in regards to the customer service department at another importer.  However, since Mike is a gunsmith and not a customer service representative I suppose his expediency at getting you off his phone line can be  overlooked.  I am not impressed that he did not try to put you in touch with someone who would have been more willing to work something out.  I can assure you, had I shown that kind of indifference to one of our customers, my boss would have fired my ass on the spot in no uncertain terms!!!

Hopefully you will receive a product in the trade that is more representative of the excellent line that we here at CZF have come to know and appreciate.

CZ75ID

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2002, 02:28:31 AM »
Good that you have such an understanding dealer. The act the there were marks on the barrel, ect. I was not for sure if this would be a function/safety issue.

In retrospect. MiKE can't fix the cosmetics..only the
mechanical function.

CZ wants Happy customers. We at CZF wants satisfied members.

Let us know if the new pistol sports any of the objections
as the other one.

No pistol/product is perfect..and there are exceptions
in quality control.

The Majority of CZ-100 owners report no problems.
Any probs by the very few..are soon rectified.

I have a few cutomized CZs..and other psitols. I
question myself why the CZ-100 is always so close
to me nowdays.

Years with Glocks and SIGS, Berettas and CZs.

The polymer CZ has just attatched itself i guess.
however, it's not my Dream CZ..it's described in
CZ WIshbone.

Burnout512

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2002, 09:16:15 AM »
Just speaking from a "newbie" pov.  I have read some things about taking the contact points in the trigger mechanism and sanding them down with very fine grit to smooth out any machining marks left.  Specifically to the rear of the pistol where a "bar" (not sure of the technical name) goes underneath another peice of metal.  This seems to rid the gritty feel to the pull.  Hope that helps!

B :smokin

CZ75ID

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2002, 04:01:28 PM »
Hi, ther ar a few mods you can do to the 100 to improve the
trigger pull/ CZ HEAD seems to know how to really slick one up.

Offline czhead

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2002, 05:34:56 PM »
"The top of the trigger bar has machine marks. When the trigger is pulled, the trigger bar moves rearward. The interrupter sits atop the trigger bar, and exerts a slight amount of downward pressure on it. The machine marks on the top of the trigger bar produce a good amount of friction as the bar slides beneath the interrupter, which is the cause of the gritty feel. A careful sanding of these machine marks with very fine sandpaper, 1000 to 1500 grit, will correct this. I sanded the bar as smooth as I could get it. I then set a doubled over piece of 1500 between the bar and interrupter, and while I put a little finger pressure on the interrupter I worked the trigger. This helped to smooth the bottom of the interrupter. The pull is greatly improved, being much smoother and lighter. Another problem is the distinct jerk caused by the trigger bar as it passes under a ridge on the trigger mechanism housing. The trigger bar, when viewed from the top, is a squared J shape. On the short end is a little tab that sticks up. This tab engages and pulls the striker back when the trigger is pulled. Close to the end of the pulling cycle, the bottom of the J on the trigger bar makes contact with a ridge on the trigger mechanism housing. This ridge directs the trigger bar down and under, which causes the tab on it's short end to also move downward. This causes the striker to slip free from the tab on the trigger bar, causing the pistol to fire. A few strokes of a small, fine file and a little polishing will totally eliminate this problem. Carefully smooth and slightly round off the edge of the ridge on the trigger mechanism housing. Polish and slightly round the bottom of the J on the trigger bar where it makes contact with it. The idea is to get the trigger bar to slide under the ridge of the trigger mechanism housing without any resistance. There will be someone that will have read this and will not be able to visualize it. When I say a squared J, it means there are 3 sides to the bar when looking at it from the top. There will be the long side that attaches to the trigger. There will be the short side which is parallel to the long side. The short side pulls the striker back. The bottom of the J is the connecting piece that runs between the two sides. It is the part that passes below the trigger mechanism housing. When I say to polish the bottom of the J, I do not mean the underside of it."

dleong

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2002, 08:33:48 PM »
Hello, all.

My replacement CZ100 arrived today. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet, but here are my observations about it vis-a-vis the one that I returned:

1. The replacement unit appears to have been manufactured in 1998. The slide sports a '98' stamp behind the extractor and the test target is dated February 16, 1998. This makes it just over two years older than the returned unit, which was made in April of 2000.

2. The workmanship on this unit is much better! The cocking serrations are absolutely smooth, with no circular machining marks in the grooves at all. The black polymer coating appears "duller" and is applied more consistently on the slide.

3. The biggest difference is the trigger: on the replacement unit, it is noticably smoother on the take-up and doesn't stack quite as much before the break. The break itself is also much crisper. Repeated dry firing of the pistol this time didn't cause my trigger finger to ache quite as much.

It looks like a winner this time. I shall post a range report once I've had the opportunity to shoot the pistol.

DL

Cossack1

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2002, 01:25:29 PM »
I can sympathize with your painfull finger, so much that I set out immediatly to correct this unsatisfactory condition by custom fitting and gluing a piece of rubber behind the trigger to act as a stop at the piont of break. Its like a new pistol.

reload4me2

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2002, 09:01:44 PM »

  How did you do that, can you post a picture of your rubber "buffer"?

Offline ut83

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The Trigger From Hell: A CZ100 Review
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2002, 06:06:44 AM »
Hmmm, sorry for the late post.  I HAVE TO COMMENT on this one.  Im glad you got a good/better/nicer gun :D  

My disbelief is in regards to Mikes comments!
I am sorry he comes across like that and his question was absolutely without merit..."Does it affect the operation of the gun?"  

A small note to Mike at CZ USA..."Mike...If we didnt care about how our guns looked and were only concerned about the function of them...as we greatly do...WE WOULD ALL HAVE RUGER S/AUTO'S...Not CZ's!  In that case, you would be a Ruger pistol smith..any more questions?"

Shoot well

 

anything