Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial

[Dave Workman]

More details, disturbing rhetoric emerge in Trayvon Martin case

 As more details emerge in the shooting of black Florida teen Trayvon Martin by Sanford resident George Zimmerman, it is becoming more evident that too many people have rushed to judgment?

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/more-details-disturbing-rhetoric-emerge-trayvon-martin-case

[painter]

I agree that if he approached and started to question the suspicious individual then he was in the wrong.  That is for the police to do.  However he was the watchman of the neighborhood and he was there to keep watch.  If he kept his distance and was just keeping an eye on the suspicious individual, and the suspicious individual attacked him, and he felt at that point that his life was in danger then I feel that he was justified.

I think that it is important to keep in mind that he was assigned as the watchman.  A watchman is supposed to keep an eye on the neighborhood.

It has been reported that that neighborhood has no official 'neighborhood watch', and Zimmerman was self appointed. I can't find where I read that now, and it may be false

Regardless...

This is my take...he was armed, followed a person with as much right to be there as himself who was unarmed. and ended up creating a circumstance to kill.

If you live in an area with high crime and someone is following you while you are simply traveling to and from a place you have a right to be who was defending themselves?

Trayvon Martin may not be an altar boy...but he wasn't looking for trouble that night...Zimmerman was and created it.

Zimmerman has done us all a disservice.

[th3ug1y0n3]

I agree that if he approached and started to question the suspicious individual then he was in the wrong.  That is for the police to do.  However he was the watchman of the neighborhood and he was there to keep watch.  If he kept his distance and was just keeping an eye on the suspicious individual, and the suspicious individual attacked him, and he felt at that point that his life was in danger then I feel that he was justified.

I think that it is important to keep in mind that he was assigned as the watchman.  A watchman is supposed to keep an eye on the neighborhood.

It has been reported that that neighborhood has no official 'neighborhood watch', and Zimmerman was self appointed. I can't find where I read that now, and it may be false

Regardless...

This is my take...he was armed, followed a person with as much right to be there as himself who was unarmed. and ended up creating a circumstance to kill.

If you live in an area with high crime and someone is following you while you are simply traveling to and from a place you have a right to be who was defending themselves?

Trayvon Martin may not be an altar boy...but he wasn't looking for trouble that night...Zimmerman was and created it.

Zimmerman has done us all a disservice.

Zimmerman had just as much right to be there and if Trayvon attacked him Zimmerman was in his right to defend himself.   

[painter]

I understand that.

My point is that Zimmerman had no cause to do anything but call 911. Martin was not observed breaking and entering or damaging anything, and if he was Zimmerman still had no right to confront him.

He called 911 from his car. Why did he leave his car? If you are afraid, you stay there or move away. Why did Zimmerman get close enough to Martin to be 'attacked'? Neighborhood watch members have no law enforcement privileges.

Only two people know what actually happened. One is dead. That was unnecessary and wrong IMO.

[th3ug1y0n3]

That is what I guess we will have to find out from the investigation.  I agree that if he confronted Trayvon it could be questioned as to why he took that action.  But at the same time if Zimmerman kept his distance and Trayvon approached Zimmerman then Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.  That is of course just my opinion and I do not have all of the facts. 

The problem that I have with this is that there is a mass of people jumping to the conclusion that law enforcement did not do their job and that Zimmerman was on some type of racist racial hunt.  All I am saying is that if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman he was right to defend himself however at the same time if Zimmerman confronted Trayvon then Zimmerman created a the problem to a certain extent. 

One thing for sure is that the media is fanning this in one direction and that is not fair.  Also there is so much anger being directed to Zimmerman without knowing the facts and that really bothers me.  I just hope that the outcome is that law enforcement did their job because that would be very concerning as well. 

This is just terrible all the way around.

[painter]

That is what I guess we will have to find out from the investigation.  I agree that if he confronted Trayvon it could be questioned as to why he took that action.  But at the same time if Zimmerman kept his distance and Trayvon approached Zimmerman then Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.  That is of course just my opinion and I do not have all of the facts. 

The problem that I have with this is that there is a mass of people jumping to the conclusion that law enforcement did not do their job and that Zimmerman was on some type of racist racial hunt.  All I am saying is that if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman he was right to defend himself however at the same time if Zimmerman confronted Trayvon then Zimmerman created a the problem to a certain extent. 

One thing for sure is that the media is fanning this in one direction and that is not fair.  Also there is so much anger being directed to Zimmerman without knowing the facts and that really bothers me.  I just hope that the outcome is that law enforcement did their job because that would be very concerning as well. 

This is just terrible all the way around.

I have to admit...I think Zimmerman was on a racist racial hunt. He was profiling. I wear a hoodie at work in the winter. Does that make me a target? Have we heard what Martin was doing that made him suspicious besides he was wearing a hoodie?

Martin could not have attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman stayed in his car. Zimmerman left his car because he was armed and was prepared to kill.

In my mind this whole situation is wrong. No one acted properly, and we as gun owners and enthusiasts will suffer because of it.

[nonamehavei]

That is what I guess we will have to find out from the investigation.  I agree that if he confronted Trayvon it could be questioned as to why he took that action.  But at the same time if Zimmerman kept his distance and Trayvon approached Zimmerman then Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.  That is of course just my opinion and I do not have all of the facts. 

The problem that I have with this is that there is a mass of people jumping to the conclusion that law enforcement did not do their job and that Zimmerman was on some type of racist racial hunt.  All I am saying is that if Trayvon attacked Zimmerman he was right to defend himself however at the same time if Zimmerman confronted Trayvon then Zimmerman created a the problem to a certain extent. 

One thing for sure is that the media is fanning this in one direction and that is not fair.  Also there is so much anger being directed to Zimmerman without knowing the facts and that really bothers me.  I just hope that the outcome is that law enforcement did their job because that would be very concerning as well. 

This is just terrible all the way around.

I have to admit...I think Zimmerman was on a racist racial hunt. He was profiling. I wear a hoodie at work in the winter. Does that make me a target? Have we heard what Martin was doing that made him suspicious besides he was wearing a hoodie?

Martin could not have attacked Zimmerman if Zimmerman stayed in his car. Zimmerman left his car because he was armed and was prepared to kill.

In my mind this whole situation is wrong. No one acted properly, and we as gun owners and enthusiasts will suffer because of it.

I disagree, as somone litteraly covered from head to toe in tattoos I have been stopped while walking at all hours by both police officers and nieghborhood watch. I have never felt the urge to jump on top of somone who wanted to know what I was doing and pound thier head in to the dirt.
Sent from this thimgy using tapawhatzit

[painter]

I've been stopped and asked too...but not by someone that had been following me with no real reason to do so What gave them the right to ask? If I'm asked by an LEO I comply. If someone walks up to me on the street and questions me, I ask if they're writing a book and suggest what they can kiss.

You may have reacted the same depending on how Zimmerman acted and what he said.

We will never know

[armoredman]

noname, I was 19, clean cut and tattoo free walking in a suburb of San Francisco at 0200, sober as a judge, just getting night air, but two local PD who harassed me, ran my info and gave me all KINDS of grief about being where I had a legal right to be, merely because it was 2AM. Part of the reason is I was a sailor, the other I think because they were bored. I did have a cop pull his sidearm on me on Mare Island Naval Shipyard for walking down the street with my hands in my pockets. A complaint had been called in that someone was trying to break into cars. Wasn't me.
I also fear we will never know the real facts, except this - a young man is dead, an older mans life is ruined, and any immediate family on both sides are also going to suffer for years.

[Thor™]

............................................
Zimmerman had just as much right to be there and if Trayvon attacked him Zimmerman was in his right to defend himself.

Still, indisputable facts, 17 year old smaller male unarmed, 28 year old older larger male armed......

[Twmaster]

You have that backwards.

Martin was 6'2" and a football player. Zimmerman is the smaller of the two.

[painter]

You have that backwards.

Martin was 6'2" and a football player. Zimmerman is the smaller of the two.

That is correct.

It doesn't really change anything though.

[th3ug1y0n3]

............................................
Zimmerman had just as much right to be there and if Trayvon attacked him Zimmerman was in his right to defend himself.

Still, indisputable facts, 17 year old smaller male unarmed, 28 year old older larger male armed......

It does change things.  Again this is only if the fact comes out that this 17 year old was beating Zimmerman up.  If the witness is credible, Zimmerman did not fire until he was getting beat up.  If he was getting beat up who knew when he would have stopped punching and maybe Zimmerman would have lost his life.  Fists can be weapons too. 

There have been instances where I have seen people in my neighborhood walking with hoodies or apparel that cover their head and there have been thoughts of what is this person up to.  I will slow down to make sure that they are just passing through and when I see them from my house I will walk out to get a closer look and to let them know that they are being watched. 

The media keep stating that Zimmerman was following Trayvon which make is sound like he was within a close proximity.  How far was he from Trayvon  and how did he attack Zimmerman is what I would like to know.  Again I do not see anything wrong with him keeping and eye on Trayvon as he was the neighborhood watchman.  If Trayvon was up to something and Zimmerman didn?t do anything then there would have been wrong with that as well.

This is what I feel that happened.  Zimmerman saw suspicious activity, wanted to make sure that he was indeed suspension, place a call to 911, kept and eye on the suspicious Trayvon and then was attacked.  The media is saying that Zimmerman was following Trayvon per the call that Trayvon placed to his girlfriend but we do not know how Trayvon reacted after his call.

We will have to see what they find and until then Zimmerman is innocent in my eyes.  Now if he is found to have been innocent then he has been done a disservice.  The ones that have done a disservice to the gun laws are those that are jumping to conclusions and using this as ploy to attack the gun laws and self defense laws.

[Tmeaves]

Heard something on the local news tonight that puts the proper spin on this. A local reporter, talking about a Seattle march for Trayvon, described him as "a person who was shot while walking down the street" (not quite a direct quote, but close). No doubt where the MSM wants this to go. In the meantime, I still don't know what happened, and probably never will. My impression, though, is that Zimmerman screwed up in multiple instances, and gun owners are going to take the hit.

[th3ug1y0n3]

That is the problem right there.  Here was not shot just walking down the street and that is what the media is twisting.  Anyway this is my last post on this one until the investigation is completed as it is hurting my head.