Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial  (Read 84133 times)

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Offline armoredman

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2012, 11:54:30 PM »
Don't forget the New Black Panthers putting a $10,000 price tag on Zimmerman's head. This group is so radical even the Southern Poverty Law Center lists them as racist and anti-Semite.
I have to ask, did every single involved officer, supervisor, detective, Assistant District Attorney in that city all get stupid overnight, or is there evidence we're NOT seeing yet that shows Zimmerman is in the right...

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2012, 11:40:59 AM »
Confusion in Sanford: Is SYG law applicable or not?
 
   While anger over the shooting of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida has spread to the Pacific Northwest, it is never a good sign for someone in legal trouble when their attorney can?t get his story straight, or at least make up his mind about your dilemma and how to defend it.
 
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/confusion-sanford-is-syg-law-applicable-or-not
 

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2012, 02:53:50 PM »
If Martin, a non-resident stranger to the area, could legally go about his business at random for whatever reason or interest then Zimmerman would have the same legal right to do the same. Nothing inherently illegal, confrontational or aggressive in Zimmerman following in his car even though 911 said not to. He wasn't 'disobeying a lawful order' as such.

He may not have intentionally contacted or confronted Martin at all in any way. Conjecture, but it's reasonable that within this private gated community where Martin was not a resident, that Zimmerman only followed to see where he might go. He might well have thought he kept a safe distance from contact with Martin. This could be true even if he exited his vehicle, due to terrain, foliage blocking view or due to where Martin actually ended up?

If, that is IF, Martin doubled back and got Zimmerman by surprise and attacked that is the first illegal act of aggression. There's certainly nothing illegal or especially surprising about a local citizen, concerned about recent burglaries, possibly or possibly not a member of Neighborhood Watch, checking up on a mysterious stranger passing through their private gated community. That doesn't impress me as some huge error at all.

Somehow Martin is seen by an eyewitness to be straddling Zimmerman who's down on his back screaming for help. That's not self defense by Martin by any measure! That's aggravated assault with intent to do great bodily harm, plain and simple. One is only legally allowed to stop aggression to the point of safety, not beat somebody into a pulp as they lay helpless on the ground. Can't ignore that aspect.

What impresses me most is the recent reaction to it. If anybody is standing up as racists and aggressors suggesting violence and outright cold-blooded murder it's these jerks publicly flapping their gums! With Jackson, Sharpton, Black Panthers and others suggesting 'Getting even' and an 'Eye for an eye, a life for a life' plus death-threat 'WANTED' posters [!!!]  that's some really ugly hate speech. That's obvious threats to do grievious bodily harm or worse!

Where's the public outcry against that? Would I get away with that as a citizen if I said the same things about these people making threats? Not even a slim chance!

One other note: Zimmerman's lawyer said, "In my legal opinion, that's not really applicable to this case. The statute on 'stand your ground' is primarily when you're in your house."

To that, he quickly added,

"This is self-defense, and that's been around for forever -- that you have a right to defend yourself. So the next issue (that) is going to come up is, was he justified in using the amount of force he did?"

But we don't see the exact framework and progression of questions that he responded to. Again we have only part of the whole picture. Seems he's wisely saying he has no plans to defend based directly on a hot button issue of 'Stand your Ground' law because it may be tough to prove it applies. Instead defend on simple self-defense against an aggressive attacker, which eyewitness testimony supports. Might be a pretty smart move after all?


Offline bozwell

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2012, 03:22:19 PM »
You have that backwards.

Martin was 6'2" and a football player. Zimmerman is the smaller of the two.

To be fair, Zimmerman was shorter, but Martin weighed a piddly (at least in my world  :P) 140 pounds.  While I imagine he was an athletic teen, we're still talking about an unarmed 140 pound kid.  We're talking about someone that could easily fight in the Bantamweight division of the UFC and whose walk-around weight puts him in the Featherweight division. 

Zimmerman was a few inches shorter but much stockier (250 pounds).  I'm not saying either had the physical advantage, but this wasn't Patrick Willis fighting a civilian where you have an obvious physical imbalance and can possibly make an argument for a reasonable belief of imminent grievous injury or death (as required for a self defense affirmative defense).  We have evidence of a fight where Zimmerman had a broken nose, but unless that fight was turning lethal and unless Zimmerman did not initiate that fight, you don't have self defense.  Put another way, if you walk up and punch me in the nose, that still doesn't give me the right to open fire on you.  Also, even if Martin was winning the fight, you still have the question as to who was the aggressor that started the conflict.  There are facts that cut both ways and there are ample questions of fact here that should be left up to a jury to decide.  Simply put, they had ample probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, his defense was far from airtight and they simply dropped the ball in not making an arrest.

The problem now is things have begun to spiral out of control a bit.  As armored points out, there are radical groups now putting out bounties on Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman is receiving death threats, and so on.  It's really turned into a mess.  What frustrates me the most is that even if Zimmerman ultimately proves he acted in self defense, he still could have avoided this situation in so many ways.  He could have not followed Martin.  Or he could simply have stayed in his car rather than confronting Martin.  I think most people who carry a firearm appreciate the responsibility that brings with it and oftentimes do everything they can to avoid needless conflicts.  It's too bad Zimmerman didn't get that memo.

Offline Hayfield123

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2012, 05:17:08 PM »
Is the press "painting" a picture that is less than accurate?

http://vernacularofthelayman.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martin11.jpg
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Offline Tmeaves

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2012, 06:03:52 PM »
They are painting EXACTLY the picture they want to paint.

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2012, 07:03:38 PM »
Is the press "painting" a picture that is less than accurate?

http://vernacularofthelayman.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martin11.jpg

Yes, sir, I'd say that just about covers it. I wonder if a  certain someone would still want to say Trayvon Martin might look like his own son, hmmmm? Those words might get eaten with no mustard & ketchup.


Offline Hayfield123

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2012, 11:38:11 AM »
Not even duct tape can fix stupid . . .
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Offline Dave Workman

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2012, 12:37:19 PM »
Emerging reports about Trayvon Martin distract from attack on SYG
 
   Emerging details about dead Florida teen Trayvon Martin, whose cousin is a Tacoma resident and participated in a vigil for Martin Monday evening, may not be relevant to the incident that cost Martin his life, same as it is still questionable whether the state?s Stand-Your-Ground law is really applicable.
 
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/emerging-reports-about-martin-distract-from-attack-on-syg
 

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2012, 01:13:31 PM »
The latest info that comes out now is that the 'New' Black Panthers honcho who had put out the 'Wanted Dead or Alive' posters, a convicted felon, just got busted for illegal possession of a firearm, an FN pistol.

Eyewitness says Martin came up on Zimmerman and challenged him as he was trying to get in his car and leave, just after 911 said do not engage, and that Martin attacked first. Punched him and broke his nose, knocked him down and proceeded to slam his head into the pavement. Zimmerman's injuries to nose and back of head plus grass stains on his shirt match this testimony and scenario. That is partial explanation for why he wasn't arrested and charged at the time.

More recent news suggests that Zimmerman was a known racist who loathed and hated blacks with every breath. That's why he opened up his home and did in-home tutoring, for free and on his own time, for several local black kids in the area to help them do better in school. According to others he had been doing this for several years. These cold-hearted racists will go to any lengths, won't they?

In addition to the questionably sourced jewelry possessed by Martin and the graffiti incident of defacing public property there are reports that he was also thrown out of school because of being in possession at school of a bag with marijuana 'residue' at that same time.

Looks like the halo is slipping a bit...

th3ug1y0n3

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2012, 01:56:14 PM »
I did say I wouldn't post again on this until the inverstigation but have a question.

I don't understand.  Has it come out that he is a racist?  I thought his friend said that he wasn't.


More recent news suggests that Zimmerman was a known racist who loathed and hated blacks with every breath. That's why he opened up his home and did in-home tutoring, for free and on his own time, for several local black kids in the area to help them do better in school. According to others he had been doing this for several years. These cold-hearted racists will go to any lengths, won't they?


Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2012, 02:15:09 PM »
Sorry buddy, you're a victim of my extreme sarcasm!

What I was saying is that the 'George Zimmerman Racist' label, portraying a hater of blacks, is totally phony: invented by black activists and black-activist media. Major media lives to hear of anything even vaguely racist, hoping they can promote it into full scale race wars in the streets of America: 'STAY TUNED!! DETAILS AND FILM AT 11!!!' Chaos and disaster is their bread and butter.

Zimmerman, rather than a weirdo violent racist is apparently a man who believes in some very profound principles of human decency and is of a sort who will walk the talk! While others wrung their hands about their neighborhood violence, burglaries etc. he went out to stand the Neighborhood Watch detail while they sat in the house watching nothing but the tube.

He took out from his own personal time to tutor neighborhood youngsters, BLACK neighborhood youngsters, for free and on his own time, to help them get better grades in school.

Racist? Anti-black racist? You decide....

th3ug1y0n3

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2012, 02:31:16 PM »
Gothca.  LOL I thought so, but wasn't sure if something else came out.  I have shut off all news at this time because I have bald patches appearing on my head from the new.   OK maybe not bald patches but it is not helping my headache.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2012, 03:03:47 PM »
"Film at eleven"? I haven't heard THAT one in 30 years! ;D
I think this will be the straw that breaks the back of the blactivist hate groups and fear mongers, IF the truth can get out.