Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial  (Read 65109 times)

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Offline bozwell

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #270 on: July 07, 2012, 12:01:40 AM »
Flight risk? Are you kidding me? Judge isn't exercising much in the way of good judgement but hey, we got politics to consider here, right?

If he did make bail it would wipe out the entire fund that was set up for his legal defense and the judge knows it, that's why he set it so high. Same as refusing him the possibility of bail, and again, the judge knows it.

"Sure, I'll let you out on bail, as long as you give me all the money collected for your legal defense fund and then find somebody else to handle your case pro-bono after your lawyer quits."

Forum decency standards prevent me from further comment.

GZ and his wife lied (under oath) to the judge's face.  I don't blame the judge one little bit for erring on the side of caution.  Also, GZ already posted bail, so the notion that the judge is making this impossibly hard and denying GZ the possibility of bail is nonsense. 

Please don't try and spin this as some judge conspiring to deny GZ due process - GZ lied to the judge about his finances, the judge set a higher bail, and GZ posted the higher bail within hours.  Other than GZ lying under oath, everything else about this sounds normal (and fair) to me.

Offline czechyoself

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #271 on: July 07, 2012, 12:05:47 AM »
He made bail today.

However I can see the judge doing something like this. Afterall GZ honked the judge off with his failure to report that 100K$ fund.

The judge probably just got mad because he set an astronomical bail he thought was impossible for GZ to meet, then the donations added up. Even with a $1m bail he is walking free for a little while. Judges, when they feel they need to please someone, will do things like set ridiculous bail knowing the defendant won't be able to afford it. So, they can cross bail off the list like, "hey, I offered bail, if he can't make it, tough crap".

I have a friend who is currently accused of something he probably didn't do. The facts are so bad against him and so unreliable, the state changed courts twice already because the first 2 judges were going to throw out the case for lack of merit (i.e. they know bs when they see it). Finally they got a judge that was ready to play ball and the DA tripled his bail to make it impossible for him to bail out. Sad story, been in prison since last Thanksgiving and is so poor he is virtually paralyzed.

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #272 on: July 08, 2012, 04:32:28 AM »
Flight risk? Are you kidding me? Judge isn't exercising much in the way of good judgement but hey, we got politics to consider here, right?

If he did make bail it would wipe out the entire fund that was set up for his legal defense and the judge knows it, that's why he set it so high. Same as refusing him the possibility of bail, and again, the judge knows it.

"Sure, I'll let you out on bail, as long as you give me all the money collected for your legal defense fund and then find somebody else to handle your case pro-bono after your lawyer quits."

Forum decency standards prevent me from further comment.

GZ and his wife lied (under oath) to the judge's face.  I don't blame the judge one little bit for erring on the side of caution.  Also, GZ already posted bail, so the notion that the judge is making this impossibly hard and denying GZ the possibility of bail is nonsense. 

Please don't try and spin this as some judge conspiring to deny GZ due process - GZ lied to the judge about his finances, the judge set a higher bail, and GZ posted the higher bail within hours.  Other than GZ lying under oath, everything else about this sounds normal (and fair) to me.

No, I think you're missing it again. When this was first brought up about Zimmermans lying I pointed out that the Defense Fund wasn't ever collected as the Bail Fund, obviously a huge difference between the two! I also pointed out that if the DEFENSE FUND was instead used to make bail that it would in essence defraud all the people that contributed to his defense.

People had all sorts of motives in donating to his DEFENSE Fund. Some wanted better conditions in their home states based on a positive verdict for Zimmerman, others wanted to make a statement of belief, others felt an innocent man had been wronged and wanted to help him defend himself etc. All of the possible reasons for donating to Zimmerman's DEFENSE Fund are directly related to the arguing of the case in court and to Zimmerman having adequate financing to successfully uphold his DEFENSE in the case.

Just what part of that DEFENSE Fund, according to you, was ever earmarked or described or intended as his BAIL Fund when it was collected, long before this whole bail fiasco was dreamed up long after the fact?

The judge has now effectively forced Zimmermans into a fraudulent act. It's called 'Bait & Switch'. Zimmerman's lawyer collected money for the single and specific purpose of Zimmerman's Legal Defense, which because of pressure and tactics employed by the judge now becomes Bait, because  it's now used to post Bond which is the Switch!

Zimmerman's spoke truthfully about not having sufficient funds for Bail, because they rightly identified or saw the money collected for Legal Defense as indeed being money collected for Legal Defense, NOT BAIL! That's about as basic as it gets, no spin, no one-sided opinion, no prejudice. A Defense Fund is NOT a Bail Fund, real simple.

Offline Thorâ„¢

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #273 on: July 08, 2012, 07:32:37 AM »
Amazing.........

HTC Vision on Tapatalk 2

Offline Twmaster

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #274 on: July 08, 2012, 01:27:25 PM »
Regardless what the funds were intended for the simple truth is Z lied to the judge at his first bail hearing.
Mike

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Offline drummerboy

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #275 on: July 08, 2012, 02:35:01 PM »
He turned in one passport when he had two. Of course that makes him a flight risk!

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #276 on: July 08, 2012, 03:40:59 PM »
Please, believe me, I'm not at all suggesting that George Zimmerman is up for sainthood! I don't even know if I like the guy at all, not knowing him at all. I thought I saw mention of some stuff in his past that was sort of unsavory? Not sure here.

I do know a few things: he's a well established local family man, given a position of responsibility by local citizens in the local community as I understand it. He was well known to law enforcement and worked with them on a regular basis. He has no serious criminal record that I know of. There's nothing outstanding, that I know of, in his character or past marking him as a flight risk. Whatever normal operating procedures are in place that apply to the entire general population should apply to him.

I can't see why nobody agrees with the viewpoint, or better said, the fact that his Defense Fund was never established or intended or made available or advertised beforehand as being his BAIL FUND.

What if somebody advertised on the internet that they were in desparate need of housing and established the 'Zimmerman Housing Fund' advertised as being intended to save them from homelessness. Then after the money is collected for a house the named Zimmerman instead uses it as a lavish vacation fund to travel the world and celebrate life and freedom. Ethical? Morally acceptable? Legal? Fraudulent? How would you feel if you had donated?

What if a sitting judge demanded that they use the housing fund for a vacation fund: is that any more ethical, legal, morally acceptable or un-fraudulent just because a judge ordered it? To my way of thinking it just makes the judge guilty of forcing someone into a knowingly fraudulent act. Seems to me that everybody that donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund just got defrauded, by court order.

Offline bozwell

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #277 on: July 09, 2012, 09:35:54 AM »
Flight risk? Are you kidding me? Judge isn't exercising much in the way of good judgement but hey, we got politics to consider here, right?

If he did make bail it would wipe out the entire fund that was set up for his legal defense and the judge knows it, that's why he set it so high. Same as refusing him the possibility of bail, and again, the judge knows it.

"Sure, I'll let you out on bail, as long as you give me all the money collected for your legal defense fund and then find somebody else to handle your case pro-bono after your lawyer quits."

Forum decency standards prevent me from further comment.

GZ and his wife lied (under oath) to the judge's face.  I don't blame the judge one little bit for erring on the side of caution.  Also, GZ already posted bail, so the notion that the judge is making this impossibly hard and denying GZ the possibility of bail is nonsense. 

Please don't try and spin this as some judge conspiring to deny GZ due process - GZ lied to the judge about his finances, the judge set a higher bail, and GZ posted the higher bail within hours.  Other than GZ lying under oath, everything else about this sounds normal (and fair) to me.

No, I think you're missing it again. When this was first brought up about Zimmermans lying I pointed out that the Defense Fund wasn't ever collected as the Bail Fund, obviously a huge difference between the two! I also pointed out that if the DEFENSE FUND was instead used to make bail that it would in essence defraud all the people that contributed to his defense.

People had all sorts of motives in donating to his DEFENSE Fund. Some wanted better conditions in their home states based on a positive verdict for Zimmerman, others wanted to make a statement of belief, others felt an innocent man had been wronged and wanted to help him defend himself etc. All of the possible reasons for donating to Zimmerman's DEFENSE Fund are directly related to the arguing of the case in court and to Zimmerman having adequate financing to successfully uphold his DEFENSE in the case.

Just what part of that DEFENSE Fund, according to you, was ever earmarked or described or intended as his BAIL Fund when it was collected, long before this whole bail fiasco was dreamed up long after the fact?

The judge has now effectively forced Zimmermans into a fraudulent act. It's called 'Bait & Switch'. Zimmerman's lawyer collected money for the single and specific purpose of Zimmerman's Legal Defense, which because of pressure and tactics employed by the judge now becomes Bait, because  it's now used to post Bond which is the Switch!

Zimmerman's spoke truthfully about not having sufficient funds for Bail, because they rightly identified or saw the money collected for Legal Defense as indeed being money collected for Legal Defense, NOT BAIL! That's about as basic as it gets, no spin, no one-sided opinion, no prejudice. A Defense Fund is NOT a Bail Fund, real simple.

The problem is your view on GZ's monetary situation is inconsistent with the current law.  If I give you $5 for your birthday and tell you to only spend it on ammo for a CZ, you are well within your legal right to go out and buy a sandwich with that $5.  I can't then turn around and take any course of action against you legally, even though you spent the money I gave you against my wishes.  While there are a few legal constructs (such as trusts) that could potentially place this money outside of bail territory, GZ should still disclose it when asked point blank at the bail hearing and then his attorney can point out why that money is off limits for bail purposes.  However, they didn't use any such fund or setup any sort of separate organization to manage the funds - they deposited it in their personal bank accounts, moved it around in a shady fashion prior to the bail hearings and lied to the court's face during the bail hearing.  This money was not tied up in any way such that it couldn't be used for bail.  It was given directly to GZ, placed in their personal bank accounts, and was 100% relevant to the question of bail.  Any intentions of the donors simply are irrelevant and suggesting that it was okay to lie to the court because of the intentions of the donors is just nonsense. 

Offline Spirit 1

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #278 on: July 09, 2012, 07:06:44 PM »
I see some parts of the point you want to make but can't agree with all of it. Don't want to get in a war here so for me I'm done with it.

Offline DenStinett

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #279 on: July 12, 2012, 09:40:31 PM »
I just read that today, the FBI released they report into their investigation of George Zimmerman, his background and possible motive(s) in the Trayvon Martin case
The report stated that the FBI found absolutely NO proof that Zimmerman?s act was racially motivated, but more of a probable need for the admiration of his peers
From what they found, there was no malice intended at all
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline Twmaster

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #280 on: July 12, 2012, 09:44:09 PM »
And the DA released more info about this case. None of it was flattering to GZ.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/fbi-interviews-crime-scene-photos-other-evidence-released-154730328.html
Mike

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Offline DenStinett

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #281 on: July 12, 2012, 10:17:26 PM »
And the DA released more info about this case. None of it was flattering to GZ.

Yeah, I can see how everyone should believe (without a shadow of a doubt) a guy that ?Swears on a Stack of Bibles !?
And I?d say we all need to be investigated because (as far as I?m concerned) ?I need more Guns !?
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline bozwell

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #282 on: July 12, 2012, 10:39:50 PM »
And the DA released more info about this case. None of it was flattering to GZ.

Yeah, I can see how everyone should believe (without a shadow of a doubt) a guy that ?Swears on a Stack of Bibles !?
And I?d say we all need to be investigated because (as far as I?m concerned) ?I need more Guns !?

The sarcasm is a bit unnecessary.  The more you deal with law, particularly courtroom litigation, the more you will realize that evidence is merely something to be evaluated and not something you should take so personally.  Nothing in the article indicated that a jury should believe beyond a reasonable doubt the 'cousin' who said the voice was TM's.  If you ask me, the article is neither flattering nor unflattering - it's just a high-level overview of several witness' potential testimony.  Just because an article contains some facts that are unflattering doesn't mean you should resent it or get upset about it.  Just accept it for what it is - random highlights of witness testimony, from witnesses that can be impeached or otherwise discredited at trial, that ultimately need to be evaluated by a jury.

Offline Twmaster

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #283 on: July 12, 2012, 11:15:16 PM »
The news report I heard on the radio was -very- unflattering.
Mike

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Re: Trayvon Martin case: FL stand-your-ground law on trial
« Reply #284 on: July 13, 2012, 09:07:29 AM »
The general main stream media is against GZ and I expect that most of their reporting will unflattering or negative against GM.  You don't see them reporting on the negative aspects of Travons past.  The general mainstream media has their antigun agenda and will do anything to make gun incidents look negative.

 

anything