Author Topic: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit  (Read 23236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2014, 09:46:33 PM »
It shoots anything I run in it.  I suppose if you tried lower pressure ammo from the start (before breaking in springs) and/or didn't have your bolt generously lubed you could have issues, bu I haven't.

My default ammo though are the Federal 9BPLE -- a +P+ HP load -- and S&B SB9A FMJ.  Both run hot.  The S&B is essentially a 9mm nato pressure load but w/ a 115 gr bullet rather than 124. 
SB9A is listed at ~150 fps faster (1280fps vs 1090-1145 fps) than federal fmj (standard pressure, american eagle is loaded w/ less pressure than is redbox) and the federal 9bple is listed at ~120 fps faster than standard pressure federal HP loadings for the Federal 9BP (that's at 1180 fps, vs 1300 fps for the 9bple).
*I shoot these for velocity gains/flatter shooting not out of necessity for function.  And I haven't tried steel or aluminum cases in it either (believe the manual says to avoid aluminum). 

I like it enough that I'm planning to pick up a second to keep in my wife's car as a trunk gun.  And I went w/ Glock b/c their high capacity mags (33 rounders) were the most reliable out there.

However, the Sub2k does have its own specific manual of arms.  For me, the compactness gain was worth it.  Depending on what you/yours run or are familiar with, a Colt 9mm or Citadel 9mm M1 Carbine clone might make more sense (Citadel uses Beretta 92 mags).  Those are the three 9mm carbine platforms I'd consider/recommend (I'd classify an IMI or Action Arms Uzi as a SMG rather than a carbine, but it's a fourth option as well -- and my first and only choice for SHTF situation if I had to pick just one but that's not my use case here, well maybe the Colt just due to accessory options...).  Regardless, other options all have major drawbacks: the Taurus if there were conversion packages available, the Suomi if it didn't weight so much and was reliable with all ammo and if the conversion kept more of the original operating system, the Beretta 9mm carbine if its hammer and other integral parts weren't polymer [+$200-300 to replace those which brings to colt 9mm price range], Marlin Camp if they weren't relatively fragile upon part failure, Ruger is heavy with bad trigger pull and no current production mags,  and the HiPoint has the same propriety just standard capacity mag drawback...

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2014, 08:33:29 AM »
Saiga (AK) 9mms are now available in Europe...  Where's the indubitably superior 9mm VZ58?  O0
 


http://imgur.com/a/2dqTj

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2014, 08:37:10 AM »
http://youtu.be/ZM6BOjsFx4M

HST is not bonded though...

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2014, 05:35:29 AM »
If they won't give us a 9mm VZ58 domestically, I might have to go with the PSA Glock lower 9mm AR...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4sY2i7U1io

Have been toying with adding a blemished Adams Arms 5.56 to my collection for more practice/familiarity with the AR operational ergos just due to them being a killer deal and short stroke piston design, but a 9mm blowback is much more intriguing.  And glock mags too!

Offline dernt

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2014, 10:17:25 AM »
If CZ would build a civilian version of the Scorpion Evo, and someone import it to the US, I'd be standing in line with my cash.

Offline MariusVZ

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2014, 11:52:46 AM »
I have both a VZ and a Beretta CX-4 in 9mm. Love them both but they are very different. I don't think I'd want the VZ in 9mm when there are guns out there like the Beretta but that's just me!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 12:56:23 PM by MariusVZ »

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 01:00:25 PM »
Well, looks like the Scropion EVO3 is coming from CZ USA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XAYsYwZGxI
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:02:14 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2014, 01:06:12 PM »
Actually it's already here: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol/

$849.

Full auto, SBR version if you're LE: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo3-a1/
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 01:08:35 PM by RSR »

Offline Cheapo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 04:21:56 PM »
Actually it's already here: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo-3-s1-pistol/

$849.

Full auto, SBR version if you're LE: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-scorpion-evo3-a1/

I think I just decided on my next firearm purchase. This + sig arm brace would make a made combo. And for pretty cheap!

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2014, 04:50:37 PM »
Did some searching.  In their catalog but on preorder now.  Not officially released. 

I'd think we'll see them at $749-799 or so a couple months after released.   That price is ridiculous!

Might have to get rid of my Sub2k in favor of this rig!  Definitely want a folder on it however.  ACE makes one that screws into the AR tube mount.  And would slightly extend length of pull. 

Posted both of below over in Horse's pistol build thread, but with the ATF now giving contradictory advice on whether mounting a sig brace to your shoulder is in effect "converting" the weapon, I'd personally lean more towards the Thorsden cheek rest setup:
Just came across this -- looks like a great option as well:





Image source and good read: http://www.recoilweb.com/friday-night-gun-porn-compliant-ar-option-and-an-ar-pistol-43401.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHyIoxD8Y1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE-JYbgigVw

Stock tube cover -- $26.99 to $36.99 (more expensive having quick detach sling connects)
Saddle adapter kit -- $18.99
Saddle -- $26.49

Should ~$80-$100 delivered.  That is cheaper than the Sig Brace...

http://www.thordsencustoms.com/shop/AR-PISTOL.htm

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2014, 05:02:42 PM »
Have to admit.  This knowledge of the EVO has made my week.  And I have the PSA 9mm AR upper coming this week too...

Though I still like the idea of an all steel VZ58 in 9mm -- not a huge fan of polymer.


Offline Cheapo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2014, 06:52:13 PM »
Have to admit.  This knowledge of the EVO has made my week.  And I have the PSA 9mm AR upper coming this week too...

Though I still like the idea of an all steel VZ58 in 9mm -- not a huge fan of polymer.

When I watching the Noir video I kept being impressed. From the bolt release, the cheap mags,the awesome charging handle,  to the MSRP. It shocked me too!

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2014, 01:18:00 PM »
EVO 3a1. 

According to Wikipedia, it's 410mm long with stock folded.  That's 16.14 inches.
With stock unfolded, it's 670mm long.  That's 26.38 inches.
Barrel is 7.72".

BUT for the s1 (civilian version), most pistol tubes are only 7-8 inches long.  So we're probably looking at +7.5-8.5 inches over the 16.14 length, or the 24" range with that tube installed, and another inch if you add a folder.

For comparison:
Sub2k (16" barrel) is 29.5" inches long (and 16" folded, but inoperable folded).
Uzi (standard, 10.2" barrel) is 18.5" inches long with stock collapsed and 25" with stock extended.
Colt 9mm Smg (10.5" barrel) is 25.6" stock retracted and 28.9" stock extended -- Add 6" to each for 16" barrel w/ muzzle device.
MP5 w/o suppressor (8.9" barrel) is 27" w/ fixed stock or 21.7" stock collapsed.
?korpion vz. 82 (9?18mm Makarov version, 4.4" barrel) is 10.6" stock folded and 20.4" stock extended.
VZ58 rifle (15.4" barrel) is 25" stock folded and 33.3" w/ stock extended.
VZ58 carbine (11.8" barrel) is 21.5" stock folded and 29.7" w/ stock extended.
VZ58 compact (7.5" barrel) is 17.1" stock folded and 25.4" w/ stock extended.

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2014, 01:31:13 PM »
Also, according to ballisticsbytheinch: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

There is only about a 75 fps difference between a 7" barrel and a 16" one, or a 8" barrel and 15" one.

It looks like 15" is the maximum length for max velocity as well.  Beyond that, all you're doing is reducing muzzle blast and flash.

So it's safe to assume that the EVO likely will have more blast and flash than the Sub2k or other longer barreled 9mm carbines, but velocity differences with common ammo, excepting perhaps +P+ 9mm, will be marginal.

This EVOs1 is looking like an ideal truck gun for my needs...  Might end up keeping the sub2k for home defense, depending upon the tritium night sight options for the EVO...

Offline RSR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4668
Re: 9mm VZ58 Conversion Kit
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2014, 01:58:22 PM »
One complaint is that I do wish it had a more vertical grip.  That extreme cant (for outdated shooting technique) pushes your elbows out rather than down...  And for Military/LE, that exposes more of your unarmored body to enemy, a potentially fatal design flaw...  Looks like they just copied the MP5 grip angle here...

More evo vids:

http://youtu.be/x2AOIkSsj9k

http://youtu.be/Y90lvB3mzEI

http://youtu.be/4ByigNHoNeg

http://youtu.be/zMs1CPZvP9w

http://youtu.be/bU9TOzTPAj4

http://youtu.be/C9lpGD2hvnk

http://youtu.be/Y-gjOoufr_4

Suppressed subsonic:
http://youtu.be/8CR_5ffAsMM

Suppressed supersonic ammo:
http://youtu.be/1jfKNBOGet8