Author Topic: Kadet Mystery Continues  (Read 9050 times)

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Offline 75Plus

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Kadet Mystery Continues
« on: April 21, 2014, 11:08:52 AM »
Spent Sunday afternoon playing with my full Kadet and a Kadet 2 kit. The more I learn the less I know about these.  I started with a 13# spring and one of my experimental firing pins. I had loaded 4 mags with bulk ammo from a Federal 525 round pack. The exp. FP would not touch off any rounds so I changed to another one with a different profile. After multiple strikes I managed to fire 7 rounds. I switched back to the factory FP and managed to fire the remaining 33 rounds. Three of these required 2 strikes.

Moving right along, I replaced the upper with my Kadet 2 kit with the original FP but still using the 13# spring. I switched to box of CCI Standard Velocity, 40 grain round nose lead, bullets. The slide self closed as I tapped the mag. home. The first round failed to fire on the first strike. Ten additional pulls of the trigger resulted in 10 rounds down range. The second and third magazines were emptied, by rapid fire, with 20 pulls of the trigger. The fourth mag. self closed as I slapped the mag. home and the first round required a second strike. All the rounds then fired the same as had happened in the first mag. of CCI's. The final mag. of CCI's ran 100%. Fifty rounds fired with only 2 needing a second strike was very satisfying. The fact that both double strikes occurred when the slide self closed makes me wonder if the light strikes were slide related rather than the 13# spring. I will delve into this on my next outing.

I went back to Federal bulk and shot 20 more rounds with one requiring a second strike. I then found a partial box (30) of Winchester SuperX, Lead Free tin 26 grain hollow points. Still using the 13# spring only 4 of 10 rounds went on the first strike. I changed back to the factory spring to shoot up the second loaded magazine. Bad move, out of the 10 rounds only 2 self loaded. Of the remaining 8 rounds only 1 managed to eject, the other 7 spent cases had been trapped by the slide and required hand removal. So much for SuperX Lead Free!

By now it was getting dark so I packed up and headed home. I hope to get back to trying to determine what is different between the Kadet 2 kit and the Kadet upper. Both of them look the same as far as fit of the parts. I will try swapping firing pins and springs and recoil springs on my next outing to see if those may be a factor. I will also try to determine what if any relationship there is between the self closing of the slide and light first strikes. I am thinking that the extractor may be holding the slide out of battery on the first round.

Joe
“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.”
George Washington

"A gun is like a parachute.  If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."

Offline JonNC

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 12:58:58 PM »
If the Kadet extractors weren't $35, I would get a few of them to play around with.

I wonder if one could relieve the extractor notch in the barrel or to work on the cheapest part :D remove some material from the front of the extractor to remove it as a variable?

CZ P-10 C, S, F
CZ 75 P-01
CZ 75 Shadow Duo-Tone
CZ Kadet Kit 2
CZ Scorpion

Offline 75Plus

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 01:22:48 PM »
Jon, I think it is the mechanics of the self closing that is the culprit. When the slide closed from the slide stop being released there was no light strike. It was only when the slide closed from the mag being slammed home that the problem occurred.

Joe
“Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.”
George Washington

"A gun is like a parachute.  If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."

Offline JonNC

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 01:28:06 PM »
I can get my Kadet to self close if I use enough force to seat the mag, but I don't recall if that correlated with any lightstrikes.
I'll add that to the list of things to test next time out.

CZ P-10 C, S, F
CZ 75 P-01
CZ 75 Shadow Duo-Tone
CZ Kadet Kit 2
CZ Scorpion

Offline pauli62

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 07:18:45 PM »
Joe,
I have the same problem with the slide closing when I tap the the bottom of the mag.  I'm pretty sure my light strikes also happened at that time.  I will have to go to the range one of these days to confirm.  What is causing the slide to close when I seat the mag?  Is it an easy fix?

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 08:50:27 PM »
re insert mag-release.

This does give 'less' slide travel/slide impact than fully cycling the slide---like when firing.
Back to recoil spring force applied feeding the rd into battery??

Offline Koop

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 02:50:06 AM »
I'm beginning to think this is headspace/round seating related.
I havent got my Kadet II kit yet, but look forward to trying it out thouroughly.

Offline handgun2

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 07:24:30 AM »
well,

my recent expierence went from a almost 100percent reliable on trigger pull down to 50percent when I changed to a race hammer, both using the same 13lb spring.

so,  being a tinkerer,  I decided to do a little machining myself,   after initial run, gun running around 80percent with 13lb and race hammer.  will machine a bit more.. and get back to you.

good luck to all.  luv my kadet!
k

Offline Jake G

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 08:31:50 PM »
I'm assuming you are removing mass from the race hammer?  In that case you are increasing the kinetic energy but reducing the force or momentum of the hammer.  It's kind of a trade off but you might be on to something. Anybody experimenting with a CZC comp hammer?  I need to get my kadets to the range.

Offline handgun2

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 08:50:07 PM »
nope, not removing mass from hammer, if anything, I'd try adding some weight,   I don't have a scale handy and don't want to take the gun apart again.. (those decocker's take time to re-assemble!)

will let you know.. funny thing.. same gun shot tonight with CCI Stinger w/ nickel (plated/silver cartridge),  ALL failed first strike.. put in the CCI regular brass and back to 75-80percent..   

will keep you posted on the 'other' stuff I am trying...  want t experiment a bit more before going public.

k

Offline steerclr

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 09:03:07 PM »
I've been running the CZ Custom hammer (Item Number: 10035) all through my testing and with the associated issues I've been having.  I did try to add weight to it to see how it might affect the indention on empty cases I was testing.  I took a 40gr 22lead bullet and wedged it/staked it inside the hammer opening.  It couldn't move once I had it flattened in there.  The extra mass didn't seem to help.  Mass went up, acceleration must have gone down and overall force appeared to stay the same.  I've got some testing to do this weekend with the Wolfe extra power hammer spring I got and will report back.  I can re-install the factory hammer and re-test if necessary to see if there is a difference between the hammers.

Offline Jake G

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2014, 01:48:12 PM »
Handgun2, what exactly are you machining?  You mentioned the factory hammer being 100% while the race hammer was not as reliable. My understanding is the race hammer is heavier than the stock hammer.  I have a heavier shadow hammer on my kadet and have an extra one laying around that I was thinking about lightening to see how it compares.

Offline handgun2

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2014, 04:16:27 PM »
am gonna wait a bit to 'share' what I am machining.   anyway,  if the race hammers are heavier... than could that be the culprit?  a lighter hammer spring will have a tough time moving a heavier mass and thus having  a lighter impact.

again,  can anyone please confirm?  or give the weights of the race hammer's vs the standard hammer?
thanks
k

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2014, 08:29:19 PM »
handgun2,  "schmeky" discussed in some detail that EXACT issue around the time the CGW Race Hammer was being brought to life.  It's here somewhere.

Offline handgun2

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Re: Kadet Mystery Continues
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 09:21:36 PM »
okay,

anyone have better 'search kung fu" than me?   help me find weights of both or other hammers, or posts containing those items separately.

lets go team CZ kadet!

ps.  I should start adding stiffer springs back in to my kadet and keep data on performance. again, I am using soley a 13lb hammer spring with a  CGW race hammer.  I will keep you informed on my 'other' machining when I feel comfortable sharing. Please be aware, I have had dialogue with Schmeky on several of these issues and he is a 'rock star' guy, with top notch equipment,  he has made my CZ's better. so please, no one take anything that I post, away from him and his incredible work on CZ equipment. He is the Maestro! bar none.

respectfully,
kevin