Author Topic: Which optic?  (Read 7252 times)

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Offline RSR

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2014, 09:54:23 PM »
Did you actually use it or just rotate it per instructions to see if you have astigmatism?

Generally, no human eye is perfect -- some are just worse to much worse than others. 
The goal with any red dot is to focus the eye on the target, not the red dot -- you look through it, not focusing on the dot.  Trying to focus on the dot like a front sight will make it blur to some degree for almost anyone since seldom is an eye exactly perfect.  It's more a question as to what degree the brain is able correct for those visual imperfections and utilizing your tools properly to minimize those imperfections from becoming evident...

Basically, you can still be combat effective with a red dot despite astigmatism, and even with, you're likely still a faster, more accurate shooter with a red dot than irons.

More so for peep sights than our AK type sights on the VZ, but cowitnessing with irons sometimes also helps the eye to focus which clears up the red dot.

Also, if really bad, and you know you can use standard scopes, a 1-3 to 5 or 9x scope might be a better option.

I have astigmatism in my right eye, shoot right handed and am left eye dominant...  I wear glasses when behind a computer working or reading (slight farsightedness [trouble focusing close] in right as well), but don't wear prescription lenses when shooting (in 30s, I'm sure that'll change as I get older) or playing sports.  I use my left eye, right hand shooting, (cock head slightly) for pistols, but right eye and right hand for rifles.  Red dots, I'm able to shoot both eyes open no problem, right astigmatism eye seeing the red dot.  Skeet shooting, I should probably switch to left hand shooting if I did it seriously, and target shooting w/ magnification generally just close the left.  And I self taught this way as a kid with BB guns before being properly instructed later than life, but by then the comfort and confidence despite being technically "wrong" has not led to me relearning to shoot as a lefty...  Point being, vision problems aren't fun, but they can be overcome.

Had an optometrist describe astigmatism as like a magnifying glass focusing the sun.  Perfect is a crisp small dot.  Turning slightly to the side skews the image out of round.  Moving far away makes it less sharp.  These type of not perfect focus issues are essentially astigmatism w/ a red dot -- you lose that crisp round circle.  Granted a lot of varying degrees and types of imperfections w/ astigmatism.  But glasses and contacts can usually correct.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 10:00:54 PM by RSR »

Offline Cheesesteak

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2014, 12:40:39 AM »
RSR,
Great write up. I did the rotation test and it's not the dot. You are right, if you focus on the dot and not the target it really looks fuzzy. The optic is not mounted and used yet so I'll wait and see! Keep you posted.

Offline GWL

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2014, 04:12:06 PM »
Did you actually use it or just rotate it per instructions to see if you have astigmatism?

Generally, no human eye is perfect -- some are just worse to much worse than others. 
The goal with any red dot is to focus the eye on the target, not the red dot -- you look through it, not focusing on the dot.  Trying to focus on the dot like a front sight will make it blur to some degree for almost anyone since seldom is an eye exactly perfect.  It's more a question as to what degree the brain is able correct for those visual imperfections and utilizing your tools properly to minimize those imperfections from becoming evident...

Basically, you can still be combat effective with a red dot despite astigmatism, and even with, you're likely still a faster, more accurate shooter with a red dot than irons.

More so for peep sights than our AK type sights on the VZ, but cowitnessing with irons sometimes also helps the eye to focus which clears up the red dot.

Also, if really bad, and you know you can use standard scopes, a 1-3 to 5 or 9x scope might be a better option.

I have astigmatism in my right eye, shoot right handed and am left eye dominant...  I wear glasses when behind a computer working or reading (slight farsightedness [trouble focusing close] in right as well), but don't wear prescription lenses when shooting (in 30s, I'm sure that'll change as I get older) or playing sports.  I use my left eye, right hand shooting, (cock head slightly) for pistols, but right eye and right hand for rifles.  Red dots, I'm able to shoot both eyes open no problem, right astigmatism eye seeing the red dot.  Skeet shooting, I should probably switch to left hand shooting if I did it seriously, and target shooting w/ magnification generally just close the left.  And I self taught this way as a kid with BB guns before being properly instructed later than life, but by then the comfort and confidence despite being technically "wrong" has not led to me relearning to shoot as a lefty...  Point being, vision problems aren't fun, but they can be overcome.

Had an optometrist describe astigmatism as like a magnifying glass focusing the sun.  Perfect is a crisp small dot.  Turning slightly to the side skews the image out of round.  Moving far away makes it less sharp.  These type of not perfect focus issues are essentially astigmatism w/ a red dot -- you lose that crisp round circle.  Granted a lot of varying degrees and types of imperfections w/ astigmatism.  But glasses and contacts can usually correct.
Great description. My eyes are now 73 years old with exactly the same condition as yours. I will give you some hope as I still shoot sans glasses and the red dots work fine for me as long as I shoot without glasses.

Offline nickndfl

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2014, 07:50:35 PM »
What about the Bushnell TRS-32 5 MOA Red Dot with Mount, AR731305 for $80 at PSA?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/trs-32-5-moa-red-dot-with-mount.html

Offline sirosisofliver

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2014, 10:10:16 PM »

Offline RSR

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2014, 10:24:42 PM »
I'd wait until they have this one back in stock.  https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Advanced_Micro_Dot_with_Push_Buttons_p/md-ads.htm

There's really no advantage to longer tubes on standard red dots.  And this one doesn't appear to have the 8 hour auto shutoff either. (I dislike auto shutoffs and one of the reasons I stay away from the Vortex red dots.)

Offline Narvalow

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2014, 07:41:00 AM »
What is the name of the quad rail on the pic please ?

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg544/sr16ve2/imagejpg1_zps1baf6742.jpg

Offline sirosisofliver

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2014, 10:33:08 AM »
I'd wait until they have this one back in stock.  https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Advanced_Micro_Dot_with_Push_Buttons_p/md-ads.htm

There's really no advantage to longer tubes on standard red dots.  And this one doesn't appear to have the 8 hour auto shutoff either. (I dislike auto shutoffs and one of the reasons I stay away from the Vortex red dots.)

Hmm...I like that one, too.  I might need another RD from Primary now..:)

Offline Cheesesteak

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2014, 03:16:04 PM »
Cheesesteak,  you can mount the rail yourself if you choose to, follow czechpoints instructions here
https://www.czechpoint-usa.com/receiver-side-rail?l=   Or have your local gunsmith do it, if you do just have him follow the instructions from czechpoint.

As for the sparc reddot, you can't beat it.  Comes with 3 different height mounts/2x magnifier/nv capable/small 2 moa dot.  Relocation of on/off switch is a plus.  I have the first gen for about 3 years now and still holding up, mounted on my rifles In 7.62x54r/x39/.308/5.56/.223/.22lr/3030.  Only thing I changed was the battery once.  Finding myself a vortex fan as I just picked up a vortex spitfire (great scope)with 5.56 reticle for my bullpup

Sparc 2 mounted on my pistol



Is the height of the red dot on that set up comfortable?

Offline audax

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2014, 05:15:40 PM »
I'd wait until they have this one back in stock.  https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_Advanced_Micro_Dot_with_Push_Buttons_p/md-ads.htm

There's really no advantage to longer tubes on standard red dots.  And this one doesn't appear to have the 8 hour auto shutoff either. (I dislike auto shutoffs and one of the reasons I stay away from the Vortex red dots.)

I've been giving that one the serious eye ball as well. I read somewhere that the auto shutoff on the Holosun HS403G was done to extend the life of the LED not the battery. That was the only way they could offer a lifetime warranty. I'm hoping the PA MD-ADS has a longer life LED, because it only has a three year warranty.

By the way the MD-ADS is now back in stock at Primary Arms.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 05:21:35 PM by audax »
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

Offline knoxy

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 09:50:09 AM »
I had a TRS-32 on mine, on a Bonesteel upper rail. With low height rings it gives a lower co-witness with the irons. Battery life was OK if you remember to shut it off. Worked great for ~1000 rounds. Still works fine but switched it out for a FastFire3.

What about the Bushnell TRS-32 5 MOA Red Dot with Mount, AR731305 for $80 at PSA?

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/trs-32-5-moa-red-dot-with-mount.html

Offline RSR

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 03:18:48 PM »
Even the previous generation red dots w/ battery life @ 5000 hours (medium setting I think) would run if left on for ~7 months w/o battery replacement.  Still a considerable lifespan versus eotechs and the like.

I've just seen the headlines but Aimpoint is releasing a "value" option for their larger red dot:
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/10/19/aimpoint-sneaks-out-budget-2moa-rds-carbine-optic/

http://www.guns.com/2014/10/21/aimpoint-launches-affordable-new-carbine-optic-red-dot/

Personally though, the CompM4 running AA batteries would probably have the same lifetime costs as this slightly cheaper option though...  And I have plenty of rechargeable Eneloops to feed AA/AAA devices, though w/ an 8 year battery life on AA, it might make sense to run a lithium in them...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 03:34:18 PM by RSR »

Offline sirosisofliver

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2014, 03:34:16 PM »
Even the previous generation red dots w/ battery life @ 5000 hours (medium setting I think) would run if left on for ~7 months w/o battery replacement.  Still a considerable lifespan versus eotechs and the like.

I've just seen the headlines but Aimpoint is releasing a "value" option for their larger red dot:
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/gearscout/2014/10/19/aimpoint-sneaks-out-budget-2moa-rds-carbine-optic/

http://www.guns.com/2014/10/21/aimpoint-launches-affordable-new-carbine-optic-red-dot/

Personally though, the CompM4 running AA batteries would probably have the same lifetime costs as this slightly cheaper option though...  And I have plenty of rechargeable Eneloops to feed AA/AAA devices...

Eneloops?  Must be a Steven Harris fan..lol.  Great rechargables!

Offline Cheesesteak

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2014, 04:23:25 PM »
Well I got my rifle back and set it up. I'll zero it in tomorrow. Really like the new rig. The red dot sits pretty high above the front post but I don't now where my POI is so thats going to change of course.






Offline RSR

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Re: Which optic?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2014, 05:01:09 PM »
Eneloops?  Must be a Steven Harris fan..lol.  Great rechargables!

One of my high powered LED flashlight brands recommended them.  And I can get the bulk packs pretty cheap at costco.  Googled steve harris and his info looks interesting.  Will read when I have the time.