Author Topic: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!  (Read 38802 times)

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Offline TheLocNar

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2015, 03:34:28 PM »
Anyone plan to put a vertical foregrip on this thing? Any recommendations?

Offline mikec

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2015, 04:09:04 PM »
Vertical foregrip may make it AOW weapon.

Offline TheLocNar

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Offline mikec

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2015, 05:01:30 PM »
Be aware that AOW examples shown on the ATF website are not complete. 

For example adding a vertical foregrip to HK SP89 pistol (similar in appearance to MP5, minus the rear stock) makes it AOW in the eyes of ATF.

http://blog.princelaw.com/2009/09/01/florida-man-arrested-for-constructive-possession-of-an-sbr/

« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 05:26:54 PM by mikec »

Offline Nimdabew

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2015, 07:56:46 PM »
I JUST found out how much I am getting back from my tax refund too. Guess how much? The cost of the gun, plus transfer, plus tax stamp, plus 6 mags. Grr.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 03:10:02 AM by Nimdabew »
snakeye, no worries, I don't need someone in a leotard. :)

Offline 350zrb

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #140 on: January 15, 2015, 09:49:21 PM »
Are the rails metal or plastic? What is the total top rail length (#)?

Would a AFG fit on the bottom rail or will it overlap? I want a FDE version.... Now.

All rails are plastic. Top rail is 11" long. AFG will fit bottom rail perfectly.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2015, 12:33:25 PM »
I JUST found out how much I am getting back from my tax refund too. Guess how much? The cost of the gun, plus transfer, plus tax stamp, plus 6 mags. Grr.

Perfect. :)

Offline Nimdabew

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2015, 12:36:08 PM »
I JUST found out how much I am getting back from my tax refund too. Guess how much? The cost of the gun, plus transfer, plus tax stamp, plus 6 mags. Grr.

Perfect. :)

Are there any of these left though? From the sounds of it, the first batch has been claimed already. I would jump on one right noe if I could.
snakeye, no worries, I don't need someone in a leotard. :)

Offline TF135Sierra2Xray

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2015, 05:17:18 PM »
I JUST found out how much I am getting back from my tax refund too. Guess how much? The cost of the gun, plus transfer, plus tax stamp, plus 6 mags. Grr.

Perfect. :)

Are there any of these left though? From the sounds of it, the first batch has been claimed already. I would jump on one right noe if I could.

From what I understand the first batch of 1000 currently or about to be imported are all spoken for by dealers, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have all been spoken for by customers having pre-ordered.  My LGS has been allotted 7 of them and all of them are spoken for by customers already.  I have already paid for the two that I pre-ordered from him, but I am sure like always some people will not make good on their commitment towards their pre-order, and those few will be available along with those allocated to shops and web stores  that have not accepted pre-orders.  Be vigilant.  Another forum member caught one on a website just the other day.

Good luck for all of you who were unsuccessful in getting one pre-ordered but are still looking! 
SGT, CAV
OEF1, OIF 1&2
________________
Luke 22:36

Offline mikec

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2015, 10:01:01 PM »
ATF just indicated that use of forearm braces as shoulder stocks is illegal!   Read carefully. 

OPEN LETTER ON THE REDESIGN OF ?STABILIZING BRACES?

The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received inquiries from the public concerning the proper use of devices recently marketed as ?stabilizing braces.? These devices are described as ?a shooter?s aid that is designed to improve the single-handed shooting performance of buffer tube equipped pistols.? The device claims to enhance accuracy and reduce felt recoil when using an AR-style pistol.

These items are intended to improve accuracy by using the operator?s forearm to provide stable support for the AR-type pistol. ATF has previously determined that attaching the brace to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to National Firearms Act (NFA) control. However, this classification is based upon the use of the device as designed. When the device is redesigned for use as a shoulder stock on a handgun with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length, the firearm is properly classified as a firearm under the NFA.

The NFA, 26 USCS ? 5845, defines ?firearm,? in relevant part, as ?a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length? and ?a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.? That section defines both ?rifle? and ?shotgun? as ?a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder?.? (Emphasis added).

Pursuant to the plain language of the statute, ATF and its predecessor agency have long held that a pistol with a barrel less than 16 inches in length and an attached shoulder stock is a NFA ?firearm.? For example, inRevenue Ruling 61-45, Luger and Mauser pistols ?having a barrel of less than 16 inches in length with an attachable shoulder stock affixed? were each classified as a ?short barrel rifle?within the purview of the National Firearms Act.?

In classifying the originally submitted design, ATF considered the objective design of the item as well as the stated purpose of the item. In submitting this device for classification, the designer noted that

The intent of the buffer tube forearm brace is to facilitate one handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap. It also performs the function of sufficiently padding the buffer tube in order to reduce bruising to the forearm while firing with one hand. Sliding and securing the brace onto ones forearm and latching the Velcro straps, distributes the weight of the weapon evenly and assures a snug fit. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to dangerously "muscle" this large pistol during the one handed aiming process, and recoil is dispersed significantly, resulting in more accurate shooting without compromising safety or comfort.

In the classification letter of November 26, 2012, ATF noted that a ?shooter would insert his or her forearm into the device while gripping the pistol's handgrip-then tighten the Velcro straps for additional support and retention. Thus configured, the device provides the shooter with additional support of a firearm while it is still held and operated with one hand.? When strapped to the wrist and used as designed, it is clear the device does not allow the firearm to be fired from the shoulder. Therefore, ATF concluded that, pursuant to the information provided, ?the device is not designed or intended to fire a weapon from the shoulder.? In making the classification ATF determined that the objective design characteristics of the stabilizing brace supported the stated intent.

ATF hereby confirms that if used as designed?to assist shooters in stabilizing a handgun while shooting with a single hand?the device is not considered a shoulder stock and therefore may be attached to a handgun without making a NFA firearm. However, ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding alternate uses for this device, including use as a shoulder stock. Because the NFA defines both rifle and shotgun to include any ?weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,? any person who redesigns a stabilizing brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length.

The GCA does not define the term ?redesign? and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. ?Redesign? is defined as ?to alter the appearance or function of.? See e.g. Webster?s II New College Dictionary, Third Ed. (2005). This is not a novel interpretation. For example ATF has previously advised that an individual possesses a destructive device when possessing anti-personnel ammunition with an otherwise unregulated 37/38mm flare launcher. See ATF Ruling 95-3. Further, ATF has advised that even use of an unregulated flare and flare launcher as a weapon results in the making of a NFA weapon. Similarly, ATF has advised that, although otherwise unregulated, the use of certain nail guns as weapons may result in classification as an ?any other weapon.?

The pistol stabilizing brace was neither ?designed? nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a ?redesign? of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked.

Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA.

If you have any questions about the issues addressed in this letter, you may contact the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division at fire_tech@atf.gov or by phone at (304) 616-4300.

Max M. Kingery
Acting Chief
Firearms Technology Criminal Branch
Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division

*This letter can also be found on http://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-industry under the "News" tab.

Offline Nimdabew

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2015, 10:37:07 PM »
Yeah, we get it man. You have posted that letter twice now. Are you going to post it every time someone mentions arm brace?
snakeye, no worries, I don't need someone in a leotard. :)

Offline Nimdabew

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2015, 10:38:17 PM »

From what I understand the first batch of 1000 currently or about to be imported are all spoken for by dealers, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have all been spoken for by customers having pre-ordered.  My LGS has been allotted 7 of them and all of them are spoken for by customers already.  I have already paid for the two that I pre-ordered from him, but I am sure like always some people will not make good on their commitment towards their pre-order, and those few will be available along with those allocated to shops and web stores  that have not accepted pre-orders.  Be vigilant.  Another forum member caught one on a website just the other day.

Good luck for all of you who were unsuccessful in getting one pre-ordered but are still looking!

Thats fine and dandy, but besides hunting various online stores for one, whichi is a pain, how can I get one? I don't necessarily want to pay gunbroker prices and hunting would consume my entire day.
snakeye, no worries, I don't need someone in a leotard. :)

Offline Grandmas_Boy

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2015, 10:43:45 PM »
Thats fine and dandy, but besides hunting various online stores for one, whichi is a pain, how can I get one? I don't necessarily want to pay gunbroker prices and hunting would consume my entire day.

I believe you answered your own question sir?..

- You do not want to pay a premium for the ones that are readily available.
- You do not want to look for those that are not readily available.

You are not going to be taking possession of one anytime soon based upon your preferences.  I'd advise you to either wait until supply has caught up with demand, or simply place an order with your local (or online based) CZ dealer as CZ-USA has already advised folks to do who want one of these?..
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 10:46:14 PM by Grandmas_Boy »

Offline Nimdabew

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2015, 10:54:27 PM »
Thats fine and dandy, but besides hunting various online stores for one, whichi is a pain, how can I get one? I don't necessarily want to pay gunbroker prices and hunting would consume my entire day.

I believe you answered your own question sir?..

- You do not want to pay a premium for the ones that are readily available.
- You do not want to look for those that are not readily available.

You are not going to be taking possession of one anytime soon based upon your preferences.  I'd advise you to either wait until supply has caught up with demand, or simply place an order with your local (or online based) CZ dealer as CZ-USA has already advised folks to do who want one of these?..

True. I will wait unless someone wants to take pity on me. I can wait and see if there are nay bugs to be worked out though I doubt there are any. These have been in production for a few years in Europe right?
snakeye, no worries, I don't need someone in a leotard. :)

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2015, 11:07:22 PM »
They have been in production for a while, and no, i haven't heard of any bugs with them, but that's the full auto subguns.
I have been told that there are several shipments in various places in the pipeline...we'll see how soon they get here. :)

 

anything