Fab Defense polymer folding stock install instructions

[Doublegunner]

OK, I give up.  I purchased a Fab Defense polymer joint, folding stock.  No instructions in the package.  Can't find instructions on the fab Defense web site, or on any site that sells them.  I have searched this site with no luck.  I pretty much have it figured out but there is a washer that fell out of the package and I am not sure where it goes.  Any help appreciated.

Thanks

[RSR]

Folding stock:
http://youtu.be/y2WqC7L6Tyw

And for the buffer tube:
http://youtu.be/_j9Y203FUyE

And here (note that's not how you should try to remove it though...):
http://youtu.be/NaJAIHXgFfs

[Doublegunner]

Thanks for the reply, my understand how to install was correct, I just don't know where the steel washer goes.  You were right on the third video, a  little extreme to get the original screw out, even with loctite it seemed like it should have been a last resort.

[Doublegunner]

Got it all together this morning with no issues.  I ended up not using the washer because there really was no obvious logic that I could see for its use.   Also installed the pistol grip.  Seem to be good quality parts but I did have to trim/file the flashing on the pistol grip to get it to seat.    In hind sight, I should have bought the collapsible because the cheek riser is useless in my set up with bone steel rail and Spark red dot mounted to co-witness. 

[CitizenPete]

Got it all together this morning with no issues.  I ended up not using the washer because there really was no obvious logic that I could see for its use.   Also installed the pistol grip.  Seem to be good quality parts but I did have to trim/file the flashing on the pistol grip to get it to seat.    In hind sight, I should have bought the collapsible because the cheek riser is useless in my set up with bone steel rail and Spark red dot mounted to co-witness.

How would your rate the quality and fit of the Bonesteel rail?
- did you get top AND bottom rails?

Other than the "useless" riser what are your impressions on the FAB stock?
Is the length the same as the "Vz. 58V" wire folder.
When folded is it clear enough from the charging handle for you to operate the firearm effectively?
can you post some pics?

Thanks !

[Doublegunner]

How would your rate the quality and fit of the Bonesteel rail?
- did you get top AND bottom rails?

Other than the "useless" riser what are your impressions on the FAB stock?
Is the length the same as the "Vz. 58V" wire folder.
When folded is it clear enough from the charging handle for you to operate the firearm effectively?
can you post some pics?

I have both top and bottom rails and I rate the quality to be good.   I have not remove the top rail yet to see if it maintains zero after re-installing but it is advertised to maintain.  The top rail is a little tricky to install but the directions are step by step.  If you stay organized and go in sequence there should be no problems.  Bottom rail is pretty easy but you have to make sure you get the rear seated correctly. It is a pretty precise/tight fight, i had to tap with a rubber mallet.

Length of pull without measuring  is 1/2 inch to 3/4 longer.  I have a wire stock gun too and I compared but didn't measure.  I am short with a broad chest and length of pull is seems ok to me.  The quality of the stock appears good to me, and to clarify, the riser works fine, just the low mount I am using makes it unnecessary.

Mine is set up folds to the left so I am not sure about the charging handle.  I am on my way to the range so I will give more exact measurements and pics this evening.

[CitizenPete]

How would your rate the quality and fit of the Bonesteel rail?
- did you get top AND bottom rails?

Other than the "useless" riser what are your impressions on the FAB stock?
Is the length the same as the "Vz. 58V" wire folder.
When folded is it clear enough from the charging handle for you to operate the firearm effectively?
can you post some pics?

I have both top and bottom rails and I rate the quality to be good.   I have not remove the top rail yet to see if it maintains zero after re-installing but it is advertised to maintain.  The top rail is a little tricky to install but the directions are step by step.  If you stay organized and go in sequence there should be no problems.  Bottom rail is pretty easy but you have to make sure you get the rear seated correctly. It is a pretty precise/tight fight, i had to tap with a rubber mallet.

Length of pull without measuring  is 1/2 inch to 3/4 longer.  I have a wire stock gun too and I compared but didn't measure.  I am short with a broad chest and length of pull is seems ok to me.  The quality of the stock appears good to me, and to clarify, the riser works fine, just the low mount I am using makes it unnecessary.

Mine is set up folds to the left so I am not sure about the charging handle.  I am on my way to the range so I will give more exact measurements and pics this evening.

Thanks for that insight. 

I sent an email to Bonesteel to ask about fit up of the rail with other variants as well.  The tight fit scares me a bit, since I don't know if other VZ58 variants will be an even tighter fit.  I also read a reviewers comment on their site that said field removal of the top cover is not possible?  What does that mean -- isn't there a QD pin?

Regarding the stock, again I really appreciate your feedback.  I probably have a similar physical make up as you.  I may have mentioned elsewhere that I have these stocks on other AKM style weapons, but was unsure how it would fair on the Vzor58. Sounds like the length is not too bad.   As far as interfering with the charging handle if you switched it to the right, can you kinda eyeball it and envision if it would still allow the weapon to be operated properly?  The photos and vids on Zahal site scare me a bit into believing its not designed for operation while folded to the right, and I haven't seen anyone have it folded to the right while firing the weapon.

Again, thanks a bunch for sharing your experience and thoughts. They are very helpful to me in my purchasing decision.

[Doublegunner]

I've got two boys in college so although it would be nice to have one of the more expensive variants I have two VZ 2008.  I wouldn't let the tight fit scare you.  The bottom attached just like the original if I recall.  I didn't have to beat on it, just some taps with a rubber mallet. 

I just came back from the range and for the second time I was not satisfied with my grouping.   Last weekend was the first time that I tried to do some serious shooting with this gun with the Vortex spark II installed.   It was colder than hell and it wasn't grouping well at all.  When i got home I realized that the mount came loose.  When I installed, my youngest surprised me coming home from college and I basically threw it on without loctite to get to the range.  We only shot tula at 25 yards and got it dialed in,  So last weekend was my fault.  Today, it grouped better but was having trouble with windage.  Realized now the rear of the top rail came loose.  Evidently the bone steel supplied  Rockset adhesive failed.  Maybe I didn't clean it well enough?  I am pretty handy but I am no smith.  I just cleaned and re-installed the set screw with blue loctite.  Hopefully I can get to the range tomorrow to see if I can do better.  This gun with iron sights was amazing accurate for 7.62 x 39 50 year old design.

I measured length of pull difference the best I could without a gauge and the Fab stock is about 1/2 in longer than the wire stock, and the butt has a different angle.  The stock was comfortable enough but i have a tendency to crowd the receiver when bench shooting and the hinge would bump my nose (folding to the left).  I will have to figure out how to reverse.   It appears that you could charge the rifle with the stock folded to the right but manipulation of the safety will be difficult.  I actually liked the wire stock, but mine does not fold very easily and I like to have rubber or some nonslip texture on the butt.  I rigged up a check pad on the wire stock by using 5/8 in heater hose and covered it with neoprene from hobby lobby.  I attached the neoprene using auto upholstery adhesive and it has held up well.   In hind sight, with the low mount red dot or irons I should have got the folding M4 style tube then installed a light weight minimalist collapsible stock.  I think it would have kept the original "L" shape lines better and given me adjustable length of pull.  Hard to tell what you like unless you can see it and mount/shoot it.

As far as pics, it has been awhile since i posted on a forum, I will have to review how to do it.  Do you still have to import from photo bucket or similar site?

 

[RSR]

Same install procedure for Bonesteel and NEA:

Lower aluminum handguards require removing a little of the front lip w/ file.  About 1/8" usually for VZ2008s.  Otherwise, lube the back, get a rubber hammer, then put it in the front handguard retainer and use the rubber hammer to tap the back (from the back tapping forward towards front handguard retainer) and home.  The first 1/3rd is the hardest.  After that you're home free and just tap from the bottom.  You don't have to remove the 1/8" but then you'll pretty much have to use a hammer to install/remove forever.  To remove, you take off the top handguard and tap the back top side edge of the lower...

I've been meaning to do a more substantial writeup, but this covers the high points -- starting the discussion regarding the NEA/troy rail:

Bottom, only the small rail will fit.  And the small rail is sufficient to mount an AFG or other grip. 

Support hand side, I like the long rail for heat deflection as well as a continuous surface for my hand being mounted against. 

Opposite side, I have a small rail for flashlight mount or other accessory if needed.  Better to have and not need, than not have and need...

Also, NEA does sit slightly higher than bonesteel.  But it is a much more substantial rail in pretty much every respect.  And its design is also such that it prevents things from falling into the handguard, unlike Bonesteel.  Whether NEA is "overbuilt" or that extra bulk is critical is quite fairly up for discussion.  But that's my primary takeaway.

Lowers Bonesteel is better ventilated and has much more rail space -- for NEA, more rails means less ventilation.  Also, Bonesteel, you don't have to worry about rails working themselves loose.

But, for Bonesteel in hand, the lower is almost too wide.  Wider than AR quad rails.  And I haven't mounted it yet to try, but I also don't think the bonesteel will be friendly to the gogun gas pedal, which it and the AFG make a pretty much perfect forehand grip w/ my Troy/NEA, and do a very good job of minimizing heat on the support hand.  Without the Gas pedal on bonesteel, support hand thumb ends up on top rail right next to where the pistol in exhausting the gas (point of greatest heat).  Not ideal.
My Daniels Defense Omega rail: 1.9", 48.3mm.
Bonesteel: 2.15", 54.5mm.

In comparison my Midwest Industries Galil Quad Rail is 2.25"/57.3mm, but feels much narrower -- I think it has to be something to do with the wide rail sitting so low to the palm of the hand, but not certain... 
**PAUSE**
So ran through these again.  Bonesteel the meat of thumb ends up atop the side rail.  NEA is about 2/3 on and 1/3 off the rail and the Midwest and Daniels both run palm entirely on the rail.  That's the hangup with bonesteel.  I can rotate my palm more under the barrel , but then I'm not using the same grip on the afg as I"m used too...  Not sure if I'm describing correctly, but the meat of the thumb, portion of palm connected to thumb is what I'm describing...
Bottom line, bonesteel is high enough that my thumb sits atop the side rail and is the only quad rail I have where a c-clamp grip would be described as natural.  It'd be hot, but natural...  Without an AFG that grip would probably be worse... 

Looks like I've gone and convinced myself to spend more $ on upgrading my 2nd tacticool VZ2008 to an NEA fore-end at some  point...