keeping mags loaded

[copenhagen]

It's been one month.  All the Ballistol and Control magazines are stellar.  I may shoot them tomorrow.  As you know, every Militec mag cracked to smithereens.

[mursalot]

I just want to say a big "Thank You" to pntball650 for starting this thread and to copenhagen for conducting a thorough real world test. I think we've all learned something here and this isn't the end of the story to scorpion mags failing prematurely.

I've seen this thread linked and referenced in other forums. Hopefully cz or cz usa will learn from the things discussed here as well. You never know, maybe they'll at least distribute a warning slip with their future scorpions advising owners what type of cleaners and lubricants to avoid.

There's so many things I've personally learned from this forum and I'm forever grateful for its existence. There is a plethora or things to be learned here for new owners. It would be nice if there were a way to pin an ongoing list (not discussion because that's what the threads are for) of lessons learned from trial and error as well as experience and wisdom.

[rotorblade]

Was going to start a new post but I'll just leave this here.        

This mag was loaded with 29 rounds. Was inserted into one of my CZ scorpions for about a month. The scorpion is setup for home defense and has very few rounds through it along with this mag.
It has never had oil of any kind applied to it. Only oil it has come in contact with is the oil that is used on the gun itself.
I use break free on the gun.
I wash my mags. Disassemble and wash the plastic parts with mild dishwashing liquid and then rinsed and let air dry. Springs are cleaned with a soft cloth with break free applied to it and then wiped off with a clean soft rag like a washcloth or old t-shirt. The oil is not let to say on the spring it is wiped off completely. I run my fingers with the cloth around it around  the spring the entire length off it I spend a lot of time doing this. Trust me when I say this the spring is dry. I then reassembled the mags when the plastic parts are dry. I use this method on all my "Plastic Mags".

I'll be calling CZ tomorrow I have to work 12 hours today.  I have 922r followers and baseplates on all my mags cz will be getting the mag body back only. I have 20 mags total for the 2 scorpions I have.   

The mag I reloaded and put back in the HD scorpion has been checked out to be good. Other mags will have to be gone over when I am off 12 hours Wednesday.

What really worries me is that this mag has sat in the gun for month. With the mag in the gun the tension is off the feedlips I assume due to the mag having to be pushed that extra little bit to seat it fully and get a click. 

Date code on mags is 9/13.

Pictures for the Illiterate.

[mtl111]

Wow! Sorry to see that. We definitely know not get Millitec anywhere near our mags now, but you didn't have contact with any oil that could have caused issues like that. I use Breakfree CLP and haven't had any issues like that. I have had one mag that hairline cracked on the right lip. Most of my mags are impossible to load 30 rounds in, some only 28 or 29. I still feel like the spring is too long/strong for these polymer mags. I haven't had a chance to use it yet but i removed one spring and clipped off 2 coils. I can now load 30 rounds in it and its still VERY stout. Thats alot of pressure exerted on the plastic, it has to be causing this issue. How many others have not been able to fully load their mags? Thoughts?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Valk]

I've only loaded up one of my mags to a full 30 so far, but I didn't have to apply Herculean strength like it seems some people have (or at bare minimum, it was easier to load than my Shield mags). I did notice that rotorblade's mags have the "older" mold style with the hard cornered feed lips. This makes me wonder if the issue is a combination of those feed lips with springs that have too much power. Has anyone taken a measurement of a "problem mag" spring and compared it to a new production (mid-'16) magazine? A caliper measurement of the feed lips on both mold styles would help too.

[armoredman]

i have heard nothing about any "new" mold, being told nothing has changed so far.

[Valk]

i have heard nothing about any "new" mold, being told nothing has changed so far.

There was a video on another thread that showed a difference between two CZ Evo magazines - the older style had the feed lips cut with hard angles where they curve inward from the magazine body. New production mags (or at least the eight I have, which are all from about May 2016) have rounded corners there instead. If you compare the feed lips on copenhagen's test mags to rotorblade's, the difference becomes apparent.

[armoredman]

Valk, I see what you mean, never noticed that before.

[Wraith223]

Rotorblade, All my 2015 mags did this. I use CLP to clean my gun. Oil is not the issue. Weak polymer is. CZ needs to use better quality polymers. Sunlight actually is the weakness of all plastics, but mine see non or seconds of it. Pressures are exceeding the resistance of polymer feeding lips. Lancer needs to get off its high horse with sig and make some money on this opportunity. You can always tell a sig mag in the sale floor, cause it has dust from sitting there to long due to outrageous prices. 

[RSR]

I actually see Magpul jumping before lancer -- just not sure if there'd be enough volume for them to make the jump...  It took them how many years to develop an AK mag?
If not magpul, maybe hexmag or another will jump on it?

[Valk]

I'd bug ETS about it too - they seem much more agile as far as developing new things goes. Plus, they make clear mags already too.

[huskerlrrp]

I just broke a 30 round magazine at the lips (like other pictures)...I did not keep they loaded and it only took 4 or 5 loadings before failure.
CZ paid for the return shipping but I'm a little nervous about the other 8 or 9 I have laying around. Oh well, worry not.

[armoredman]

What is the date code on the failed magazine?

[rotorblade]

UPDATE!!!!
Sorry I'm late getting back to y'all I was in a phone booth changing clothes.

ALL my mags are flat corners NOT rounded ALL other mags are not cracking but I will keep inspecting over time. 1 mag is a 10/13 dated, 3 are 11/15, and the others are 9/15. All flawed corners. Mag that cracked is dated 9/13, l'll call CZ Monday. Im going to see what they can do to replace all mags seeing I have spent over a grand on the CZ USA web shop in the last year, but they will only be getting the mag bodies unless they can guarantee me 922r ready mags. We'll see. My "guess" is they will only replace the broken one and tell me to pound sand on the others until they break. 

We actually went shooting the Scorpions and my sons AR-15 Friday. My wife loved the hell out of the Scorpion. She understands now why I got them and did what I did with her on the trust.  She wants me to set up the Scorpion without the MRO for her now. She did good with it. SO now I have to buy another MRO and get 2 x300u's lights. Oh and get this she doesn't like the vertical grip. WTF 

Wraith223 is correct that sunlight is the enemy of all plastics. Thats why most polymer manufacturers use carbon black additive in the plastics. Carbon black acts as a sunscreen and helps keep the plastic from getting "Dry out Burn out embrittlement". The new Magpul plastic that is the sand color stuff,  thats some tuff !@## man I tell you. GOOD tough and dense but heavy for what it is. Its a cured product from what I understand not a thermo melt.  The clear plastic stuff even the smoke plastic stuff will melt, deform, and even dissolve when brought in contact with kerosene and other kerosene based products.

Now for all the talk of Magpul making the mags for the scorpion I don't think they will do that. The mags seem decent enough just need a little tweaking with new plastic and maybe some carbon black in the mix.  Just making the mag out of black plastic that is more dense will help things and then a little witness hole for the 30th round indicating full mag. Make the follower red to help with the witness hole when getting close to the 30th round. Yes just like the Magpul Glock Mags. Besides and you must remember mags are considered a consumable item. Magazines in the military channels are considered expendable consumable like ammo. Once used they are considered to be disposed of dropped not used again.
What would be the best and probably the quickest would be Scorpion replacement grip and some safety levers. Thats a whole hell of a lot easier design and manufacturing wise to bring to market. Magpul MOE SL grip with some nice wide safety levers would be the FUNK.

As for Lancer IIRC and I can't remember where I read it at but someone said that they are contract bound to not make mags for 9mm smg's for any other companies. Besides when paying $20 for a factory mag who is going to buy a $50.00 mag when a $20 mag is available.

[huskerlrrp]

What is the date code on the failed magazine?

I did not document that. Sorry.