Testing the Impact of Trigger Upgrades

[rhart]

Good job Scarlet.

I'm not surprised that all the polishing did not reduce trigger pull weights. I've quit polishing them and just let them polish themselves through the firing cycles. The most bang for your effort is the springs, extended firing pin, a disco and comp hammer.

I wish I had a trigger pull gauge to test my trigger now that I've done the upgrades on my SP01 Compact. It feels similar to the results you show, but I don't know for sure. I did shoot it today after installing the SRS and comp hammer last night. Another two hundred trouble free rounds shooting FM 115gr HP ammo. I'm tickled shirtless!

[Scarlett Pistol]

Good job Scarlet.

I'm not surprised that all the polishing did not reduce trigger pull weights. I've quit polishing them and just let them polish themselves through the firing cycles. The most bang for your effort is the springs, extended firing pin, a disco and comp hammer.

I wish I had a trigger pull gauge to test my trigger now that I've done the upgrades on my SP01 Compact. It feels similar to the results you show, but I don't know for sure. I did shoot it today after installing the SRS and comp hammer last night. Another two hundred trouble free rounds shooting FM 115gr HP ammo. I'm tickled shirtless!

Thanks rhart!
I still love the smoothness from polishing, but I think I'm a trigger snob now... So I'll still Polish, just knowing it only accomplishes the smoothness.
I'm going to finally get out and shoot mine this weekend. It's fantastic to hear how reliable yours has been as you've stacked up the round count, but I get jealous that I haven't had the chance to even shoot mine

[copemech]

Step 2 Reults:
Double Action: 9 lbs 7.8 ounces
Single Action: 4 lbs 12 ounces
    I?ll be honest, I didn?t expect these results. I pulled the trigger over and over with the gauge. I had re-applied the same lube I had used when I cleaned and re-lubed the pistol after I brought it home. Furthermore, the trigger pull on double action felt better. I was sure it would have dropped the pull weight at least a little.  As with all sections, I am ready to hear thoughts and feedback. While this polishing is essential, maybe just these two parts alone won?t make any difference in the pull weight, just feel?   

This may indeed be one area where you have actually increased the contact surface areas on the trigger bar and added a bit of drag. Although the smoothness was increased, the perceived weight seemed less than before.

Just a thought.

[Scarlett Pistol]

This may indeed be one area where you have actually increased the contact surface areas on the trigger bar and added a bit of drag. Although the smoothness was increased, the perceived weight seemed less than before.

Just a thought.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes sense. I don't have any other explanations. Thanks Copemech!

[MGSchindel]

Thanks for the write-up.  I just bought the same railed steel-frame compact pistol with manual safety, and have already ordered roughly the same bag of goodies to work it up with, along with the addition of a steel guide rod (the polymer one in my other CZ 75C Compact was totally warped and crooked beyond belief after just 700 rounds) and a CZ 97 "thick" trigger (I just can't do the recurve trigger, it pinches my finger to death and back).

One thing I DID notice, from extra mod parts I already have here, is that a 13 lb hammer spring does NOT reduce the DA pull weight in the compacts nearly as much as it does in the full-sized guns.  Of course, the compacts have the shorter grip frame, shorter hammer strut, and shorter hammer spring retainer plug. I would bet that the 13 lb hammer spring is actually more compressed in the compact guns than it is in a full-sized CZ.  I suspect that running an 11.5 lb hammer spring in a compact will feel more like the 13 lb hammer spring feels in a full-sized CZ......Some measurements of the hammer spring's length while installed, in both a compact and a full sized gun, and with the hammer both cocked and uncocked, would probably tell the story there....And if not, there might be another reason for this effect. I can notice it just by how hard it is to cock the hammer manually, between the compact and a full sized gun with the same 13 lb hammer spring installed in each.

I'll also add that the hammer hooks on this compact CZ's stock hammer are rougher, and have worse camming, than on any other CZ I've bought, and the sear is the roughest I've seen. I may have to add a custom sear to this pistol, depending how the hammer install goes.....

I can't wait to slick up and upgrade this chunky little sucker, and get it to the range!  When you have Cajun and CZC parts on the way, the mail seems SOOOOOO slow...LOL!!!!!

[M1A4ME]

Then, there is the effect of lubrication.

Have you ever heard of some stuff called TriFlow?

No data - just feel.  Many years ago I used that on my back up gun.  A stainless steel Ruger Speed Six .357 with a 2&3/4" barrel and bobbed hammer (pocket carry - duty jacket in the winter, jeans pocket in the summer).  You could feel the difference in how smooth it operated with Triflow vs. regular gun oil.

I sprayed it on my M1A exactly one time.  Third shot after spraying Triflow on it the extractor flew out (I was lucky to find it - lying in a sand pit shooting and no one was moving around to step on it/cover it up).  The only time in all those years (bought it in 1978) that the extractor launched itself out of the bolt.  I removed the bolt, wiped it down good and shot it dry to finish up my groups.

I used to show the kids how well it worked by using it on hot wheels cars.  Do a distance trial (remember playing with hot wheels when you were a kid?) as is, then put a drop of Triflow on the axle at each wheel, spin the wheel a couple times, then repeat the distance trial.  The cars always go measureably farther.

I need to dig some of that up and try it on a CZ with the trigger pull ga.

And polishing parts?  It makes me feel better, too.  If the parts "wear in" with some use then polishing the parts first gets you to a better functioning fire arm sooner.  What's not to like about that?

As to the difference in trigger pulls from one gun to another?  Every gun is different.  It is.  My P07 is bone stock inside the frame/slide.  The SA pull is 3&1/4 lb and DA pull is about 8&3/4 lb.  I measured one of the CZ 75 compacts the other day and it ran the dial off the scale (somewhere past either 12 or 15 lbs.) for the DA pull.  Just unreal.

[Scarlett Pistol]

So tonight I quickly took apart my SP-01 and my Compact SP-01. I took the CGW disconnector out of my full size and put it in the compact. No measurable difference in trigger pull... My hypothesis is debunked about the disconnector.

MGSchnindel may have it right with a difference in the spring being compressed more. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that they are the same but maybe they are slightly different. Other than that M1A4ME could have it with just the difference from one pistol to the next...

[srREXed]

Edit post:  so you failed to mention the difference between 'actual' trigger pull weight and 'perceived' pull weight. All that polishing makes for a lighter 'perceived' trigger pull compared to something that may pull the same but does it with some grit. Good write up. I'm not patient enough to spell it out. It should make for a good go to for the do it yourself guys and new gun guys. Sticky?

[jim.c]

Thanks for the write-up.  I just bought the same railed steel-frame compact pistol with manual safety, and have already ordered roughly the same bag of goodies to work it up with, along with the addition of a steel guide rod (the polymer one in my other CZ 75C Compact was totally warped and crooked beyond belief after just 700 rounds) and a CZ 97 "thick" trigger (I just can't do the recurve trigger, it pinches my finger to death and back).

One thing I DID notice, from extra mod parts I already have here, is that a 13 lb hammer spring does NOT reduce the DA pull weight in the compacts nearly as much as it does in the full-sized guns.  Of course, the compacts have the shorter grip frame, shorter hammer strut, and shorter hammer spring retainer plug. I would bet that the 13 lb hammer spring is actually more compressed in the compact guns than it is in a full-sized CZ.  I suspect that running an 11.5 lb hammer spring in a compact will feel more like the 13 lb hammer spring feels in a full-sized CZ......Some measurements of the hammer spring's length while installed, in both a compact and a full sized gun, and with the hammer both cocked and uncocked, would probably tell the story there....And if not, there might be another reason for this effect. I can notice it just by how hard it is to cock the hammer manually, between the compact and a full sized gun with the same 13 lb hammer spring installed in each.

I'll also add that the hammer hooks on this compact CZ's stock hammer are rougher, and have worse camming, than on any other CZ I've bought, and the sear is the roughest I've seen. I may have to add a custom sear to this pistol, depending how the hammer install goes.....

I can't wait to slick up and upgrade this chunky little sucker, and get it to the range!  When you have Cajun and CZC parts on the way, the mail seems SOOOOOO slow...LOL!!!!!

Very interesting theory about the hammer springs. It makes sense. Maybe when I order parts I'll order both a 13 # and 11.5# hammer spring to test the difference. I wonder if the lighter hammer spring will work 100% on all primers as long as you have the extended firing pin and reduced power firing pin spring ? Also are the hammer springs for the compact shorter to begin with to compensate for the shorter grip length ?

[srREXed]

So tonight I quickly took apart my SP-01 and my Compact SP-01. I took the CGW disconnector out of my full size and put it in the compact. No measurable difference in trigger pull... My hypothesis is debunked about the disconnector.

MGSchnindel may have it right with a difference in the spring being compressed more. I am pretty sure I read somewhere that they are the same but maybe they are slightly different. Other than that M1A4ME could have it with just the difference from one pistol to the next...

Your trigger reset directly correlates with your trigger pull during multiple shot engagements... You're only half debunked, weight and perception. Weight and perception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RandyMan]

Great writeup!  Thank you!

[Scarlett Pistol]

Great writeup!  Thank you!

You're welcome!

Side note: I updated "Step 6" and the "Conclusions" sections regarding my test with the CGW disconnector.  I am going to test the 11.5 lb hammer spring with harder primers like CCI and see what happens.

[SlvrDragon50]

I've been using the 11.5 lb hammer spring with Blazer without an issue. Will be trying some Aguila when I get it in as well.

[Scarlett Pistol]

I've been using the 11.5 lb hammer spring with Blazer without an issue. Will be trying some Aguila when I get it in as well.

Good to know and keep us posted! Still with your 85 Combat right? I wish I had a tool that measured impact pressure that I could insert and test the hammer strike to more easily conduct this portion of the test. Anyone know of such a tool?

[SlvrDragon50]

Yup. Though now I have my eyes on the Shadow 2

Don't think my wallet will allow for it though