Testing the Impact of Trigger Upgrades

[1SOW]

Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes,  or do you really  want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?

[Scarlett Pistol]

Yup. Though now I have my eyes on the Shadow 2

Don't think my wallet will allow for it though

Haha you and me both comrade!

[Oldwolf]

There is a lot of great information here. Thanks for posting this and taking the time to do it!
Maybe I missed it, but what was the purpose of a new hammer strut?

I have been confused with all the upgrade parts available and trying to decide what should I do to a new manual safety CZ75.
Sure, I could buy the $300 CGW upgrade kit, and it would be great, but do I really need all that stuff?

Now I am thinking I could just go with your "budget list", and add the reach reduction kit and short-reset system, and be satisfied with a few $ to spare.
Or, just forget about the trigger reduction and reset kits, and save big $.
Decisions, decisions.

[Scarlett Pistol]

Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes,  or do you really  want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?

Good point. Ideally it would be how hard the firing pin strikes. But, in this case since I want to see if the 13 lb hammer spring is being more compressed in this SP-01 Compact as compared to my Classic Compact or full size SP-01 I think the force of the hammer striking would suffice. I could be wrong though, I'm just trying to go through a process of elimination. If you know of a tool that does that too I would happily hear about it and try to wrangle one up.

There is a lot of great information here. Thanks for posting this and taking the time to do it!
Maybe I missed it, but what was the purpose of a new hammer strut?

The new hammer strut is a recommendation because the pins holding the hammer and strut and disconnector together are pretty difficult to get out. The only way I have successfully got them out is to use the punch from CGW (there's others out there that's just the one I got), freeze the groups of parts overnight in a plastic bag, put my armorers block on cement, them hammer those out with a brass hammer. I've actually gotten that to work enough I wouldn't necessarily recommend the new hammer strut. But definitely get 2 new pins to put it all back together.

If you get the short-reset system and reach reduction just be sure to read those product pages. If memory serves me CGW sends a unique disconnector if you order both or they say to call them and have them include it. You can have them send the Short-Reset System with the extended firing pin, I almost think it is standard, but I haven't looked for a bit. Ultimately, you can get them a call and they will clarify any questions you may have and get you taken care of. I'll tell you what, shooting my SP-01 Compact this weekend and I couldn't be happier. Spending the time on my trigger turned out to not be just cosmetic. I didn't experience any trigger bite. While I thought I wouldn't like it much after dry firing, I actually didn't mind it at all.

[Oldwolf]

But the bottom line I am reading, I think, is that I could install a RHK Race Hammer Kit, with strut, do some polishing, and be pretty content. Call it Phase I, if you will.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/race-hammer-kit/

[Scarlett Pistol]

But the bottom line I am reading, I think, is that I could install a RHK Race Hammer Kit, with strut, do some polishing, and be pretty content. Call it Phase I, if you will.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/race-hammer-kit/

Correct.
Order 2 of these, so you don't have to use the OEM staked pins when putting it back together. Its a waste of time to try using those OEM pins (tried that, fail).
https://cajungunworks.com/product/hpin/

Make sure you have a punch like this to get out the hammer pins and trigger pin. (Tried without one several times, muchando fail!)
https://cajungunworks.com/product/sp-forged-steel-starter-punch/

Freeze the OEM Hammer, Strut, and Disconnector group (I put mine in a zip lock bag with the air pressed out). Then take it out and immediately put on a bench block that is on something sturdy, like cement, and hammer out. Using that starter punch to get them started. (Broke punches, cracked off wood from a bench, never succeeded until I did this.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047WKF84/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since you are going to be polishing (which I still think is completely worth the time and effort) you will be removing the trigger and trigger bar. You'll use that starter punch for that as well. It's a total waste of your time to use the OEM trigger retaining pin. Order this floating trigger pin to save all sorts of time and grief.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/tr-pin-cgws-exclusive-floating-trigger-pin/

Lastly, while you are in phase 1. For a few bucks you should snag one of the CGW firing pin retaining pins. I didn't get a picture of my OEM part, but I probably dry fired on it 10 times (forgot to rack my slide and pick up the snap cap). There was a very pronounced indentation from just that little slip of the mind. For $5 this part is worth it so you don't have to worry about the OEM part getting messed up. Plus, you'll likely be polishing the FPB so you'll be removing the OEM pin anyways. Still use a snap cap to prolong the part's life, but CGW says these take something like 1,000 Dry Fires. Just my opinion to save some grief and brace against the potential mental slip.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/

Its a few more parts than just the kit you are looking at, but from my own learning experiences of not getting hammer pins out, ordering new struts because of that, breaking punches trying to removing hammer pins, destroying OEM firing pin retaining pins, and so forth --- I think those are the bare necessities. BTW do NOT use a rubber mallet (also a learned mistake). Tried to include my failure examples to illustrate why I make a few extra recommendations. Hope this was helpful and not too long winded.

[rhart]

Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes,  or do you really  want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?

I imagine it would be easier to measure how hard the firing pin strikes. It seems to me that all you would have to do is measure the depth on fired casings (various primers) with different springs. To determine whether the compact is (pre?) compressing the spring more it seems that simply removing the grips and measuring the springs on both guns in both the hammer down and hammer back configuration?

[Scarlett Pistol]

Do you need to know how hard the hammer strikes,  or do you really  want to know how hard the firing pin strikes with that hammer?

I imagine it would be easier to measure how hard the firing pin strikes. It seems to me that all you would have to do is measure the depth on fired casings (various primers) with different springs. To determine whether the compact is (pre?) compressing the spring more it seems that simply removing the grips and measuring the springs on both guns in both the hammer down and hammer back configuration?

I think that is the easiest route I can take... I think I have S&B, Winchester Magnum, and CCI in my little stash. I'll work on loading up a bunch of test rounds this week and try this test out. Hopefully over the weekend I'll have time to get out. If anyone has an explanation, so I can avoid this test that would be pretty awesome! Maybe just measuring the springs before they are in the pistols and then when they are in the pistols would be enough. I know that was mentioned earlier...

[M1A4ME]

Be aware, when doing the pencil test, that repeated use of the same pencil starts to give disappointing results when the firing pin has made enough of a dent/hole in the wooden end of the pencil.  Had one of my sons call the other day to ask what had changed on his Compacts.  He said they did fine at first, then, over time, the pencil wasn't jumping out of the barrel anymore.

Change pencils, good results once again.

Why don't I like striker fired pistols?  One reason is light strikes vs. hammer fired guns.  Too much gives you a bang, too little can be a big problem.

[rhart]

Pencil may yield qualitative results. Measuring penetration on actual variety of primers will give quantitative data. Numbers are always better IMHO.

[schmeky]

Great little informational thread by Scarlett Pistol on upgrades and how they pan out.  One thing to remember is no 2 pistols will respond to the same upgrades in the same way.   Many times the differences can be rather dramatic.

On the primer impact/hammer inertia question, we have found the best way to "measure" this is by using a common dial indicator and measuring the depth of the indent in the primer. 

[Scarlett Pistol]

Great little information by Scarlett Pistol on upgrades and how they pan out.  One thing to remember is no 2 pistols will respond to the same upgrades in the same way.   Many times the differences can be rather dramatic.

On the primer impact/hammer inertia question, we have found the best way to "measure" this is by using a common dial indicator and measuring the depth of the indent in the primer.

 Schmeky, thanks for chiming in! Definitely good to hear your reassurance on the outcome. Ill proceed and use your advice on the hammer inertia.
 Please feel free to let me know if I missed something or could improve my testing in any way. I know you guys do so much testing and just don't have the time to document it all for us. This took quite a bit of time to write up, so I definitely have a new level of appreciation for when you make time to share your work!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Oldwolf]

But the bottom line I am reading, I think, is that I could install a RHK Race Hammer Kit, with strut, do some polishing, and be pretty content. Call it Phase I, if you will.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/race-hammer-kit/

Correct.
Order 2 of these, so you don't have to use the OEM staked pins when putting it back together. Its a waste of time to try using those OEM pins (tried that, fail).
https://cajungunworks.com/product/hpin/

Make sure you have a punch like this to get out the hammer pins and trigger pin. (Tried without one several times, muchando fail!)
https://cajungunworks.com/product/sp-forged-steel-starter-punch/

Freeze the OEM Hammer, Strut, and Disconnector group (I put mine in a zip lock bag with the air pressed out). Then take it out and immediately put on a bench block that is on something sturdy, like cement, and hammer out. Using that starter punch to get them started. (Broke punches, cracked off wood from a bench, never succeeded until I did this.)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047WKF84/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Since you are going to be polishing (which I still think is completely worth the time and effort) you will be removing the trigger and trigger bar. You'll use that starter punch for that as well. It's a total waste of your time to use the OEM trigger retaining pin. Order this floating trigger pin to save all sorts of time and grief.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/tr-pin-cgws-exclusive-floating-trigger-pin/

Lastly, while you are in phase 1. For a few bucks you should snag one of the CGW firing pin retaining pins. I didn't get a picture of my OEM part, but I probably dry fired on it 10 times (forgot to rack my slide and pick up the snap cap). There was a very pronounced indentation from just that little slip of the mind. For $5 this part is worth it so you don't have to worry about the OEM part getting messed up. Plus, you'll likely be polishing the FPB so you'll be removing the OEM pin anyways. Still use a snap cap to prolong the part's life, but CGW says these take something like 1,000 Dry Fires. Just my opinion to save some grief and brace against the potential mental slip.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/

Its a few more parts than just the kit you are looking at, but from my own learning experiences of not getting hammer pins out, ordering new struts because of that, breaking punches trying to removing hammer pins, destroying OEM firing pin retaining pins, and so forth --- I think those are the bare necessities. BTW do NOT use a rubber mallet (also a learned mistake). Tried to include my failure examples to illustrate why I make a few extra recommendations. Hope this was helpful and not too long winded.

I appreciate you taking the time to specifically make recommendations for my project. My plan is to modify my ?outdoors? gun for use in the field, so I don?t need target pistol features, just better performance for defensive purposes. I will take your advice and get the other parts you mentioned, they look to increase reliability, while keeping most of the OEM parts, which is what I was after for my ?Phase I?. I am discussing this project in another thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=82718.0

[Scarlett Pistol]

I appreciate you taking the time to specifically make recommendations for my project. My plan is to modify my ?outdoors? gun for use in the field, so I don?t need target pistol features, just better performance for defensive purposes. I will take your advice and get the other parts you mentioned, they look to increase reliability, while keeping most of the OEM parts, which is what I was after for my ?Phase I?. I am discussing this project in another thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=82718.0

Ah, I remember that thread. Glad to help, just paying it forward after receiving so much help from the forum members. Excited to see how your pistol turns out!


Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[rhart]

I just got back from putting another 230 rounds through my "SP01 Compact." This time I ran 200 rounds of 147gr RN reloads through without a hiccup. These reloads were pretty rough - some looked like they had two crimps in them, one at the end of the casing and one in the middle. I was sure I would have problems with them, but I didn't. The little chunk of steel chewed them up and spit them out like nobody's business.

I then ran 30 rounds of new FM 147gr XTP JHPs through it that were in my bag. I did have one round of the XTP that failed to go all the way into battery at first, but a light assist from my thumb seated it just fine (I put a lighter recoil spring in and this may not have occurred with the OEM spring).