Load Testing: Alliant Sport Pistol powder

[Moken]

Great results and economical loads!

[Wobbly]

Equipment
Caliber:  9x19 Luger
Bullets:  Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Brass:  Winchester
Powder:  Alliant Sport Pistol (3.8gr to 4.4gr)
Max Velocity:  1085fps
Primer:  Winchester Small Pistol (WSP)
OAL: 1 .110"
Pistol:  SP-01 Tac
Qty:  6 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  50F and clear, 4PM light
Chrono:  ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD
3.8             969              27
3.9             988                4
4.0           1016              13
4.1           1063              17
4.2           1094              23    +P Load
4.3           1119              29    +P Load
4.4           1130              19    +P Load

Notes
• This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 3.8gr, with zero trash
• I attribute the 20-something SD numbers to the powder and not my reloading technique
• I would recommend 4.1gr for competition and 4.0gr for general plinking
• At ~4.1gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
• It is very easy to exceed the Max chamber pressure with this powder
• A good time was had by all


Hope this helps !   

[Moken]

Wow, very efficient powder. Need to find some after I get past my .45 loads.

[Practical Shooter]

Caliber:  9x19 Luger
Bullets:  Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Brass:  Winchester
Powder:  Alliant Sport Pistol (3.8gr to 4.4gr)
Primer:  Winchester Small Pistol (WSP)
OAL: 1 .110"
Pistol:  SP-01 Tac
Qty:  6 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  50F and clear, 4PM light
Chrono:  ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD
3.8             969              27
3.9             988                4
4.0           1016              13
4.1           1063              17
4.2           1094              23
4.3           1119              29
4.4           1130              19

NOTES
? This powder burned remarkably clean, even at 3.8gr, with zero trash
? I attribute the 20-something SD numbers to the powder and not my reloading technique
? I would recommend 4.1gr for competition and 4.0-4.2gr for general plinking
? At ~4.1gr the sights were aimed true for 50 foot targets
? A good time was had by all


Hope this helps !   

Thank you Wobbly for researching those loads. As always those are very informative.
I see you used 1.11 and jmh013 pushed it down to 1.095. Why would you compress the load bellow the suggested OAL of 1.12? and 1.12 is for FMJ, yours is HP, it should be even longer, right?

[Wobbly]

I see you used 1.110" and jmh013 pushed it down to 1.095". Why would you compress the load bellow the suggested OAL of 1.120 ? And 1.120" is for FMJ, yours is HP, it should be even longer, right?

Simply because 1.110" is the Max OAL in my 9mm SP-01 barrel.

 

[IDescribe]

I see you used 1.110 and jmh013 pushed it down to 1.095. Why would you compress the load below the suggested OAL of 1.120 ? And 1.120 is for FMJ, yours is HP, it should be even longer, right?

Compressing a load is a very specific thing.  It describes when the powder column is high enough and the bullet is seated deeply enough that the powder is actually compressed into a smaller volume, it's bulk density increasing, and both the speed at and depth to which the particles from the primer will pass through the powder are affected, and the burn is affected.  In other words, compressing a load changes the burn, and depending on the powder and caliber, it can change pressures dramatically.  It can be a big deal with powders in calibers where it happens -- usually rifle.

I see you used 1.11 and jmh013 pushed it down to 1.095. Why would you compress the load below the suggested OAL of 1.2? and 1.2 is for FMJ, yours is HP, it should be even longer, right?

Pretty sure you meant 1.12, per Alliant's load data for generic 124gr JHP or 124gr GDHP.  The OAL in load data is NOT a suggestion.  It's not something that YOU are supposed to follow.  It is the OAL that the company used when testing their loads with the powder.  That's all it is.  Every loader should determine his maximum OAL with every bullet loaded by one of the many methods described repeatedly at sites like this, not go by whatever is in the load data.  NOW, IF you are using the same bullet, and you are loading to an OAL slightly shorter than what's in the load data, you may assume you are operating at slightly higher pressures than what's in the load data to reach the same velocities listed in the load data.  IF you are loading to an OAL that is significantly shorter than what's reported in the load data, you should assume your increases in pressure are also signficant, and it's recommended that you reduce the charge window in the load data accordingly.

I see you used 1.11 and jmh013 pushed it down to 1.095. Why would you compress the load below the suggested OAL of 1.2? and 1.12 is for FMJ, yours is HP, it should be even longer, right?

Someone just said something recently about JHP loading longer than FMJ-RN.  This is not the case.  Not sure where that comes from.  JHPs (almost) always have shorter max OALs than FMJ-RN.  Most FMJ-RN and even plated RN will load longer than the magazine will allow in CZ pistols, many of them out longer than 1.200, so you can load it to the magazine max of 1.169 if you like, but most people pull it down to somewhere between 1.14 and 1.16.   Most JHPs in CZ pistols will fall somewhere between 1.05 and 1.11.  JHPs simply load shorter, like truncated cones, the noses are lopped off, making them shorter. 

[Practical Shooter]

I am enlightened buy your guys comments, thank you, and you were correct, it was an OAL of 1.12.
(My OP was corrected from an erroneous OAL of 1.2 to the correct OAL of 1.12)

[Wobbly]

Alliant CS responds to my request for a sense of the burn rate....

Per Speer #15  "Relative Burn Rate Chart", Sport Pistol and American Select are at the same level as Hodgdon International, Winchester's WSL and Vihtavouri's N320 propellants.

Bullseye is faster, and Green Dot slower.


Thanks,
Jared Hinton
Communications Coordinator l Federal Premium, CCI, Savage Arms
Jared.Hinton@vistaoutdoor.com

[1SOW]

Cool beans!
Looks like I might want to load a little bit longer if I try ASP.

[tdogg]

So I got out and shot my 40 load development.  I think this is going to be my next bulk powder purchase!  Stellar accuracy, consistent powder drop, and clean burning.

Equipment:
Caliber:  40 S&W
Bullets:  American Reloading Pulled 165gr Plated
Brass:  Winchester
Powder:  Alliant Sport Pistol (5.0 gr to 5.4 gr)
Max Velocity:  1059 fps
Primer:  Federal SP Match
OAL:  1.130 inch
Pistol:  Tactical Sport Orange
Qty:  10 rounds each, slow fired two groups of 5
Distance:  10 yd
Weather:  45F and windy,  3 PM light
Chrono:  Caldwell G1

Load (gr)     Avg Vel (fps)          ST Dev (fps)          Range (fps)         Spread (in)
5.0                1004                        8.5                        22                        0.96
5.1                1015                        8.4                        20                        0.83
5.2                1032                        6.8                        17.5                     0.83
5.3                1052                        3.7                        9                          1.0
5.4                1067                        6.1                        15                        0.81  Max Load


Notes
• This powder burned fairly clean (not as clean as Maxam CSB-5 but better than Power Pistol).  I had some case soot until 5.2 gr then it was clean.  It was interesting to review the data and see the SD numbers tighten up right at the point the soot disappeared.
• I am going to load up at around 5.3 gr for USPSA major, the low ST Dev and accuracy was good (one of the groups was my fault and inflated the average)
• I didn't see any signs of pressure with any of these loads.

Thanks Wobbly for the template!

Cheers,
Toby

[1SOW]

Interesting stuff,  thanks.
I loaded CSB5 for 9mm when it first came into this country ..illegally it turns out.  In Spain it's a shotgun powder.
It was sold in 4# jugs illegally repackaged from large drums of CSB5.  It didn't burn bad with minor PF 9mm loads.  Performance compared closely to Win 231....a little sooty at 4.5-ish grains under a 124 gr jacketted bullet.
I still have several pounds of the CSB 5 as a backup 9mm powder.
The flattened disks juuuust fit in a 9mm case primer hole .

[rotorwind]

I worked up some loads with Sport pistol today.   Here are my results

Equipment
Caliber:  9mm Luger
Bullet:  Xtreme plated 124 GR round nose
OAL: 1.120"
Primer:  Winchester
Brass:  Speer (once fired)
Firearm:  CZ Shadow 2
Temp:  48F
10 rounds each round of testing

3.9 of SP
Average- 1002 FPS
Power Factor- 124

4.0gr of SP
Average- 1017
Power Factor- 126

4.1gr of SP
Average- 1022 (1048 when retested)
Power Factor- 126 (130 when retested)

4.2gr of SP
Average- 1056
Power Factor- 131

I was going for a PF of around 130.  There was a pretty big gain from 4.1 & 4.2 but not so much going up 0.1 grain with the lower loads.    I'm torn on what to use for competition 4.1 or 4.2.   I do shoot another gun with a longer barrel too so 4.1 would probably do OK in that one.   What do you guys think?   Make up a batch of 4.1 and see if it knocks down steel?    My lowest FFS with 4.1gr was 994 and highest was 1044.   Seems like a big spread.   Perhaps I need to do further testing with the 4.1gr.

Let me know what you guys think- I'm still new to reloading

Thanks

[IDescribe]

Okay, 4.1gr shouldn?t even be under consideration.  Lots of those shots won?t make power factor.  You should want the slowest bullets you make to clear power factor. 

Also, why have you decided you want a PF of 130?  Let me explain something about power factor.  In your 4.1gr ladder, you had an extreme spread of 50 feet/sec.  That?s a power factor spread of 6.2.  That means you likely had some power factor swings of 3 or 4 from one shot to the next a couple of occasions shooting that ladder.  Did you notice recoil swings from one shot to the next?  Of course,  not.  Yet you can find people saying that they like a PF of 130, but 133 is a little stout.  Meanwhile, they?re experiencing power factor swings of 3 or more while shooting and never notice the difference. 

The point is that you can?t feel the difference in recoil from modest changes in velocity, so don?t worry about getting as close to the power factor floor as possible.  It?s not going to make you shoot better or faster.   Find your most accurate load between PF131 and 137 and shoot it.

[rotorwind]

Okay, 4.1gr shouldn't even be under consideration.  Lots of those shots won?t make power factor.  You should want the slowest bullets you make to clear power factor. 

Thanks for the info.   I was going for 130 PF because I was told its a good idea to not be right at 125 PF due to the variations.   I have some stock Lawman 124 GR that is 134 PF.   Wanted to be softer shooting then factory ammo.    I could tell a difference between my 4.1 loads and the factory ammo.   

I thought of another option of shorting the OAL of the 4.1 loads to see what that does to the velocity.   Not sure how much I'd want/need to shorten it to get the velocity where I wanted it.    If you have a suggestion I'd be interested in hearing it.   If its a bad idea please let me know too.   

I do agree that all rounds should be making min power factor at least.   I do need to check for accuracy as well.   Today I just was checking velocities.   

[tdogg]

I was going for a PF of around 130.  There was a pretty big gain from 4.1 & 4.2 but not so much going up .1 grain with the lower loads.    I'm torn on what to use for competition 4.1 or 4.2.   I do shoot another gun with a longer barrel too so 4.1 would probably do ok in that one.   What do you guys think?   Make up a batch of 4.1 and see if it knocks down steel?    My lowest FFS with 4.1 was 994 and highest was 1044.   Seems like a big spread.   Perhaps I need to do further testing with the 4.1

Let me know what you guys think- I'm still new to reloading

thanks

Rotor,

Looking at your progression of charges and associated velocities, something is off.  I'd look closely at your process before continuing load development.
 Consistency is king, powder charge, OAL, press pull, etc...

Cheers,
Toby