Author Topic: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary  (Read 16217 times)

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Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2018, 07:18:53 AM »
How do people rust their controls?
Seems like using a wire to hang them isn't ideal because it leaves an area covered by the wire.

Also I'm assuming it's OK to toss the parts directly into the boiling water. I don't need to be concerned about the metal cooking off the bottom of the pot? No need to suspend it in water?

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2018, 07:29:06 AM »
I would try another cycle and see how it looks. Skip the pre-heating step and let it work naturally. Hang the parts in a humid area and give them time to rust. When you apply, you want your patch or swab to be saturated but almost dry- wring it out as much as possible. I use barrel cleaning patches because they're easy to wring out and don't leave lint.
OK I'll definitely switch to cleaning patches.

Trying to figure out the humid area part.
I could maybe toss a humidifier in a box. I'd need a large box.
Before I built a sweat box, I hung mine in a bathroom with a few inches of hot water in the tub. Close the door and you'll have rust in a few hours.

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Offline Earl Keese

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2018, 07:31:21 AM »
How do people rust their controls?
Seems like using a wire to hang them isn't ideal because it leaves an area covered by the wire.

Also I'm assuming it's OK to toss the parts directly into the boiling water. I don't need to be concerned about the metal cooking off the bottom of the pot? No need to suspend it in water?
I don't hang small parts. Just throw them in the pot.

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Offline sberres

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2018, 09:04:12 AM »
That was in one night?!  You must have been at it a while!  +1 to what Earl says about heating. The notion is to open up the metallic pore structure but overdoing it is no good either. It really doesn't take much. The heat gun works well for drying as soon as you pull parts out of the boil. Focus on the holes and cutouts so that you don't have streaks.
  After the initial double application just keep repeating the cycle, acid wipe, allow to rust, boil, card- until it seems as deep and uniform as you like. Could be a few applications, 6, 10?  Whatever you deem effective. Rust formation will become less and less pronounced and you'll see fewer points of unevenness unless you missed something in your prep.
  It doesn't take much acid on a swab or patch to accomplish a coat. Only slightly moisten the surface and avoid trying to rub it in or double apply anywhere. The rust does the work, not you. And, there's a reason it says "slow" right in the name. Patience.
  The sweatbox or over-the-tub methods may speed things up but it'll take place on its own without such help. Just don't get greedy.  Trying for too much all at once can lead to pitting.  At the time of year I did mine it was taking 10-12 hrs with nothing excessive.
  Looking good!
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Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »
Here's a small makeshift sweat box. There is zero humidity where I am right now and my wife would not respond too well to gun parts hanging in the shower.


Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2018, 09:17:20 AM »
That was in one night?!  You must have been at it a while!  +1 to what Earl says about heating. The notion is to open up the metallic pore structure but overdoing it is no good either. It really doesn't take much. The heat gun works well for drying as soon as you pull parts out of the boil. Focus on the holes and cutouts so that you don't have streaks.
  After the initial double application just keep repeating the cycle, acid wipe, allow to rust, boil, card- until it seems as deep and uniform as you like. Could be a few applications, 6, 10?  Whatever you deem effective. Rust formation will become less and less pronounced and you'll see fewer points of unevenness unless you missed something in your prep.
  It doesn't take much acid on a swab or patch to accomplish a coat. Only slightly moisten the surface and avoid trying to rub it in or double apply anywhere. The rust does the work, not you. And, there's a reason it says "slow" right in the name. Patience.
  The sweatbox or over-the-tub methods may speed things up but it'll take place on its own without such help. Just don't get greedy.  Trying for too much all at once can lead to pitting.  At the time of year I did mine it was taking 10-12 hrs with nothing excessive.
  Looking good!
Thanks for the advice. I do my work late at night after the family goes to bed. It's really my only free time.

If this doesn't go perfectly then i may still keep the gun in imperfect shape. Good to have milestone markers :)

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2018, 09:39:46 AM »
In my sweat box, I use a scented wax warmer with water in it. You want humidity, without condensation.

Offline sberres

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2018, 09:55:47 AM »
How about a smallish crock pot with some water in it?  Too small an area for the ultrasonic to do anything but make a fine mist.
  It didn't really look like you had any standout 'spots' from what I could see in the pics. Repeat the cycles several times over and I think you'll be amazed at the result.
  I believe someone had posted on the forum once that if they had to take a break from it for a while that they'd just spray the thing with wd40 and seal it up till they could get back to it. Then just degrease again. Heck, I would think that you could just immerse it in acetone and it would sit just fine without requiring further degreasing or prep to continue the process when you get back to it.   
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Offline Earl Keese

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2018, 10:23:30 AM »
How about a smallish crock pot with some water in it?  Too small an area for the ultrasonic to do anything but make a fine mist.
  It didn't really look like you had any standout 'spots' from what I could see in the pics. Repeat the cycles several times over and I think you'll be amazed at the result.
  I believe someone had posted on the forum once that if they had to take a break from it for a while that they'd just spray the thing with wd40 and seal it up till they could get back to it. Then just degrease again. Heck, I would think that you could just immerse it in acetone and it would sit just fine without requiring further degreasing or prep to continue the process when you get back to it.
A small crock pot would work. I've left partially blued parts in acetone for months will no ill effect, as long as they're completely submerged.

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Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2018, 11:34:03 PM »
So I went against all the good advice I received. I'll explain why. I do feel I owe it to everyone who has helped me in this thread.

My results were unexpected to me.
*What I did was not what other people have done.
*I don't have any humidity here and I can't use a shower. I couldn't think of how to make a sweat box with humidity without condensation.
*I like to experiment and this would certainly be exactly that.
*I like to fail fast so I know right away to redo things.

I elected to continue the same pre-heating method of applying the bluing agent. If this was going to fail I wanted to know tonight and also know for sure that it was my process that as the problem.

I tried bringing the temps a bit lower. I switched to a cleaning patch this time. At least initially.

I found much less rust this time. The controls barely rusted and this was only after 1 rusting session. Odd.

So I heated up the controls even hotter and used a dauber with more bluing agent. Much more rust this time.

Interesting results:
The strange spots went away. Other strange spots took their place in other locations.

This time after removing from the boiling water not everything was black. There was still some orange rust here or there. I don't know why. I expected all black.

Nevertheless I still think it's turning out OK. Not perfect but it's working.


« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 07:06:40 AM by Underwhere »

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2018, 06:29:21 AM »
The remaining"orange rust" is likely copper residue from over applying the solution. You can rush things if you want, just be aware that you may wind up with a less durable finish. Making a sweat box is as simple as hanging parts in a cardboard box with a $12 Walmart scented wax diffuser in it, no condensation problem at all.

Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2018, 06:51:50 AM »
The remaining"orange rust" is likely copper residue from over applying the solution. You can rush things if you want, just be aware that you may wind up with a less durable finish. Making a sweat box is as simple as hanging parts in a cardboard box with a $12 Walmart scented wax diffuser in it, no condensation problem at all.
OK thanks.

I have another pre-b sitting in stripper right now. Likely that will get the sweat box if this goes OK.

If it doesn't go OK, this gets the sweat box too. Already have the box. Just need the candle warmer.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 07:04:19 AM by Underwhere »

Offline sberres

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2018, 08:48:11 AM »
Pre-heat or don't pre-heat. It's up to you. It's not a critical element. What you are seeing is just what you are supposed to be seeing. As the surfaces become more protected by the oxide you are developing there will be less forming. Surface prep is probably the most critical element to rust bluing. Most of the rest will even out pretty well as you go.  As Earl said, there is a little something else going one when you reach the point that the bloom no longer blackens.  And you probably find it looking a lot more uniform when you card it off.   
  Now you can apply your experience to the next one to be more effective and efficient.  More sweat in the box than on your brow. 😉  We'll be looking forward to the finished pics!
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Offline newageroman

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2018, 08:54:13 AM »
This kind of thread is why I love this site. Thanks for all the pics and explanations. I am tempted to get some small parts and try it with them sometime this spring/summer.

As for the sweatbox, would it be possible to re-purpose that heat box that you built for the stripping?

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Offline Underwhere

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Re: My Pre-B refinishing and modification diary
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2018, 04:12:07 PM »
This kind of thread is why I love this site. Thanks for all the pics and explanations. I am tempted to get some small parts and try it with them sometime this spring/summer.

As for the sweatbox, would it be possible to re-purpose that heat box that you built for the stripping?

yeah I'm getting seconds thoughts. My wife said she had a candle warmer somewhere in our xmas decorations in the basement somewhere. If I can dig it up I may try using it.

I could re-use the box I built for the stripping...however it's still being used for stripping. I have a second gun in there right now.

Besides, I just "built" a cardboard box for the sweating. Very advanced stuff here with foil tape. :)