Frustrated on the range with my P07

[f100owner]

I alluded to some issues in a  posting I have regarding swapping out sights on my P07 Urban Grey Suppressor Ready firearm.
I enjoy the firearm. Plan to make it my "toy" for upgrades and what little competition I do.
However, there is one little hiccup. I can't shoot it worth a dang.
I have had others (experienced shooters) observe and they don't see an obvious issue in technique.
Handed it to one of my "observers" and he pointed at the small corner target at 7 yards and dead centered it first shot. After that he was a little left or on line.
But try as I may with changing trigger finger, grip, my point of impact is always low left of point of aim when shooting right-handed, two-handed grip.
Grab the gun with my left hand and shoot single handed, I am much better. Much better.
Oddly, enough I am that way with my very new RAMI (but have not spent much time with it).
However, when I grab my Taurus 9mm 1911 government model, no issues with my normal grip/accuracy. No issues with my walther PPS, my S&W MP 22c, Ruger Single Six (22),  my two K-model revolvers or even my .32 Walther PPK/S. I am "afraid" to break out my favorite semi-auto, the 75B, for fear I will see the lower-left portion of the target getting plastered.
I grew frustrated enough yesterday, I loosened up the rear sight and drifted it toward the right. It is nearly on the edge of the cutout. Some improvement seen (these are the high sights).
I am planning on getting new sights for the firearm, but I can't see where that would be the issue. I just don't like the high sights.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Sounds like more of a technique issue than the gun and some guns will exacerbate the problem more than others. Years ago when I first started shooting handguns I could shoot 1911's and revolvers in SA with pin point accuracy but my DA/SA semi autos all had their rear sights drifted to the right just as you mention. Eventually after lots of practice and learning good trigger control those sights all found their way back to the center.
For me I just needed to slow down and work on my trigger manipulation after some time I found I was shooting far and away better than ever. Shooting from a firm rest early on showed me how far off I was even with a good 2 handed hold.

[f100owner]

Sounds like more of a technique issue than the gun and some guns will exacerbate the problem more than others. Years ago when I first started shooting handguns I could shoot 1911's and revolvers in SA with pin point accuracy but my DA/SA semi autos all had their rear sights drifted to the right just as you mention. Eventually after lots of practice and learning good trigger control those sights all found their way back to the center.
For me I just needed to slow down and work on my trigger manipulation after some time I found I was shooting far and away better than ever. Shooting from a firm rest early on showed me how far off I was even with a good 2 handed hold.

Yep, expecting it to be technique. I have a hitch in my swing as golfers would say. Changing sights and whatnot are just trinkets to take my mind off of the real issue.
It is irksome.

[badwrench]

Shooting low/left sounds like you're jerking the trigger,and you may possibly may need to put more finger on the trigger, I'd try dry firing at home on a target with a single dot on it, taped up on a wall somewhere in the house. Watch your front sight when pulling the trigger, if you see it dip, even just a little, try pulling the trigger a little slower the next time, eventually, you'll find that happy medium where the front sight dosen't move. It may be slower than you want, but speed will come with practice, after all, you have to start somewhere. Practice for a few minutes a day if you can, 5 to10 minutes at the most, a day is better than longer periods,  Do this for a couple of weeks,Then go to the range for some live fire you should see an improvement.. DA/SA guns are great for exposing trigger control issues, and can also help you correct them. A person who can shoot DA/SA well, will be able to shoot just about any pistol well, trigger control is the single most important thing to shooting pistols well.

[f100owner]

I will be back to dry fire practice. Still baffles me why I am fine with my single stacks and left handed. During defensive pistol training a couple of years ago, we would finish off the sessions shooting plates set up at random distances and orientation. I consistently did better left handed and for right-handed, single hand to improve, my natural grip was to slightly cock left on my grip.

[s0nspark]

I had the same problem initially when I switched to the P-07.

I shot decent groups but they were all slightly left of my point of aim. For me the solution was to make sure that the base of my trigger finger was aligned parallel to the frame (no gap!) and then I sunk whatever was left of my finger on the trigger.

This meant the trigger made contact with MY finger slightly past the first joint. That may not be ?proper? to some, but I noticed immediately that my groups went where I sent them due to a lot less movement of the gun when pulling the trigger.

[m1a_scoutguy]

Shooting low/left sounds like you're jerking the trigger,and you may possibly may need to put more finger on the trigger, I'd try dry firing at home on a target with a single dot on it, taped up on a wall somewhere in the house. Watch your front sight when pulling the trigger, if you see it dip, even just a little, try pulling the trigger a little slower the next time, eventually, you'll find that happy medium where the front sight dosen't move. It may be slower than you want, but speed will come with practice, after all, you have to start somewhere. Practice for a few minutes a day if you can, 5 to10 minutes at the most, a day is better than longer periods,  Do this for a couple of weeks,Then go to the range for some live fire you should see an improvement.. DA/SA guns are great for exposing trigger control issues, and can also help you correct them. A person who can shoot DA/SA well, will be able to shoot just about any pistol well, trigger control is the single most important thing to shooting pistols well.

Good info for sure,,you can NEVER dry fire enough. BUT with that said get some dummy rds,,a lot of them,,LOL As good as dry firing is your brain KNOWS the gun is NOT going to go off and your normally good and do not flinch or jerk the trigger. Get dummy rds and work them into your mags, better yet have a buddy load them for you so your not sure where the dummy rds are. Practice,practice and then practice a little more and you should see an improvement for sure.

[badwrench]

I will be back to dry fire practice. Still baffles me why I am fine with my single stacks and left handed. During defensive pistol training a couple of years ago, we would finish off the sessions shooting plates set up at random distances and orientation. I consistently did better left handed and for right-handed, single hand to improve, my natural grip was to slightly cock left on my grip.

Could be that with the Walthers for example, the smaller grip, is letting you get more finger on the trigger, and a better grip on the gun. With the 1911 the simple fact that the trigger is in a track so to speak, makes it impossible to pull the trigger in any way but straight back, something that's a bit more difficult to do with a DA trigger.. As was suggested, dry fire practice, combined with live fire practice will help alot,

[Yoni]

Dry fire is your friend. But dry fire without accountability is just handgun masturbation.

I have discovered in my P07 set up a hidden gem in how I set up this pistol.

It was a suppressor ready P07, that I had CGW do their magic on and mill the slide for a RMR gen 1 adjustable dot sight. The front sight is stock CZ suppressor night sight.

For dry fire I turn the dot down to the point it fits inside the night sight insert in the front sight. Dry fire on both DA and SA the goal is too keep that tiny red dot inside the front sight insert. When you can achieve that time after time when you go to the range your problem will be solved.

[FakeCZName]

sOnspark: I'm glad you mentioned this! I try to shoot all pistols with my firnger in the "proper" position, but sometimes it just works better on target for me to do it the "wrong way". I shoot my squirrel rifles the same way--with finger on the trigger past the first joint. And I have shot 250/250 on USBR targets that way. And that is the way I hunt--with my finger on the trigger 'the wrong way'.

For pistol shooting, it does slow down follow up shots, so I really do try to practice the "Proper" finger position for speed. But for just hitting where ya want to hit without consideration to how long you take for following shots, sometimes a fella can't beat doing it the "wrong way" with finger on the trigger between the 1st and 2nd joint. It doesn't pull me left right or low when I squeeze it slowly that way.

I had the same problem initially when I switched to the P-07.

I shot decent groups but they were all slightly left of my point of aim. For me the solution was to make sure that the base of my trigger finger was aligned parallel to the frame (no gap!) and then I sunk whatever was left of my finger on the trigger.

This meant the trigger made contact with MY finger slightly past the first joint. That may not be ?proper? to some, but I noticed immediately that my groups went where I sent them due to a lot less movement of the gun when pulling the trigger.

[LukeB]

Dry fire is definitely the way to go. I have a P07 which I shoot great, but with my M&P Shield I have the same low left problem as you. The more I dry fire, the more it goes away. I feel your frustration though!

[DOC 1500]

When you go to dry fire, lift the gun up to eye level ,, have somebody stand up a cartridge on top of the slide right behind the front sight, see if you can pull the trigger without knocking it off.

[LukeB]

A penny works great too!

[lewmed]

I was doing the same thing when I first got my P07 lucky for me I had just set up my L.A.S.R. range in my basement and it showed a 3" smear going low left instead of the normal dot. It took me an afternoon working on trigger finger placement and control to over come it. Now I have little trouble going from s/a pistol to d/a revolver or da/sa pistol and back.
The P07 was my first CZ after being a Glock fan for many years I now have sold all but one Glock and have added a SP01, a Rami BD and a new 97 BD in my collection.

[f100owner]

Reset my rear sight to as close to center as possible. Did a lot of dry firing over the week. Went to the range this afternoon. Not great, but better results. Of course my walthers pps was dead on. More dry firing to come. Should be getting in parts from Cajun this week as well.