Competition hammer hits sear in SA. Cz SP-01 Manuel safety help

[Diver]

I know I read the Fix somewhere but can't find it now. Rack the slide and pull the trigger and it drops but catches sear. Continue to pull and hammer drops rest of way. It's very inconsistent in doing this and is random. Thanks for the help

[sniperboy]

If this is what I am thinking of that is, your hammer is getting hung up and its almost like you are "decocking" it when carefully shooting SA from reset, then you need to file down (but a 45 degree chamfer) on the "bottom front" of the "wing" disco. 

But don't take my word for it.  Call CGW to be sure.
Do a search on "disconnector" timing on this board to see if it applies to you.

[DavidMcGinnis]

installed the omega kit this morning, exact same problem described above.

It is not consistent, and only does this some-of-the-time.   It looks like the sear breaks, rides along the hammer and gets caught up on the radius on the hammer before the half cock stop.

I can observe the sear with the slide removed.  It seems like the sear moves slightly to the side in those few instances when this occurs - ever so slightly and hard to really see because this behavior doesn't happen often.

I took it apart, blew everything out (again) with compressed air and put the heavier (white) sear spring in.  No change.

[schmeky]

A few things come to mind:

* Heavy duty sear spring - a must have on the metal framed Omega's, this is included in the kit
* Roller is not the correct size and is falling to the disco

Call Monday and we can trouble-shoot over the phone.

[DavidMcGinnis]

I plan on calling.  Thanks!

[DavidMcGinnis]

Follow up on this problem.  I called CGW and got good direction.  Dave at CGW knew exactly what I was describing, and exactly what I should do about it.   Plus 1 for CGW.

I learned a few things too:

The diameter of the roller is fit at the factory, and the size of this part takes up the tolerance of the other parts.  The Omega Trigger Kit comes with a certain .220 OD roller.  My pistol had a .250 OD roller.  I replaced the CGW supplied part with the original, and reliable, correct function is restored.

CGW said they are happy to exchange the .220 OD roller with a .250 OD roller.  Their roller is has a smoother finish which helps with the double action trigger.   Had I known more, I would have just measured the roller in my pistol before ordering the Omega Kit to get the correct size with the kit the first time - which is what I recommend. 

That all said, the double action trigger with the stock roller is pretty good.  I'm not sure I can tell the difference. 

Thanks CGW!

[MoRivera]

I'm getting the same thing with a T1 Disco in my SP-01 (manual safety) with a competition hammer and adjustable sear.  In single action, the trigger pull 'decocks' the hammer until I continue to pull a bit farther back, then it drops.  I've included a pic with off the disco 'zones' highlighted.......





So based on this conversation, what part would need filing/fitting?  Much thanks.

[MoRivera]

Found this in another forum:

This is mainly related to SA timing but the fix involves the disconnector.

If you pull the trigger and the hammer falls to half cocked position in SA, this is timming issue where variation of the slide cuts. In order to fix the timing issue, you need to file a bit the "ears" of the disconnector.
I experienced this issue recently when I replaced the original sear from modified sear from CGW (different issue).
Here is what David wrote regarding the role of the disconnector.

" Here?s how the action works:

Remove the slide, look under the frame rails to the rear of the slide, you?ll see some cut outs; notice they are ramped. Look at the trigger bar and notice the ?humps?. The trigger bar humps ride in the aforementioned slide cut outs.

When the action has been cycled and the hammer is cocked fully rearward in SA, you now have to begin pulling trigger rearward to raise the SA sear enough to allow the hammer to fall. While the trigger is being pulled rearward, those humps on the trigger bar eventually contact the rear ramps in the slide cut out. These rear slide ramps push the trigger bar down, camming the disconnector off the trigger bar. As you continue to pull the trigger rearward, the SA sear releases. Gun goes bang.

If you don?t pull the trigger rearward far enough to un-cam the disconnector before the SA sear releases, the trigger drops in SA, but now it hits the disconnector/trigger bar, stopping the hammer at roughly half-cock, arresting full hammer fall. Gun does not go bang. This is the CZ timing most gunsmiths don?t understand. This is one reason some folks take the disconnector out and convert the pistol to SAO.

Reduce the rearward trigger travel, reduce the hammer hook height, or a combination of either of these, and the timing is affected. To compensate for any change in the timing that reduces the trigger stroke, you have to trim the disconnector. How much do you trim? You trim until the hammer will fall properly in SA. Here?s a pic of a trimmed disconnector, the left one was mill cut, the right one was hand cut "

[MoRivera]

So I just did this, didn't take off much....but I think I went too far.  This is strange based on ethyl info I posted above because I don't think I ground down as much as the disco that's pictured.  The single action works great now...but the double-action slips off.  It slips off almost every time when fired from half-cock.  Just feels like the trigger disengages when pulling back and the hammer does not move.

It's either that, or it might be the trigger bar.  The trigger bar seems to have more side-to-side play sitting down in the frame than I've seen on my other CZ's.  So because of that, sometimes if the bar is pushed more towards the right (when seen from above), it seems to slip off the disconnector's DA lug in double-action, which is on the right side of the disco.  That might have been the source of the original issue.  Wondering if I should order a new trigger bar as well.

What I might try is swapping the trigger bar from another manual safety SP-01 that I converted to SAO and see if that works better, as there's no disco in the SAO version.


EDIT: didn't make a difference....I ordered a new T1 Disco and I'll be more gentle next time.  Live and learn.

[MoRivera]

So I got a new T1 disco in and dropped it into the Shadow 1.  Works great both SA and SA, shorter reset in SA is nice.  Only thing is that the break in double-action is father back than before.  I had to back out my overtravel screw a bit, which was set up nicely for when I had a Shadow 2 disco in there.  Now with the over travel screw backed out a bit, I obviously have more over travel in SA than before.  Is there a part of the T1 disco I can fit to have the DA pull break a bit sooner like before?

[George16]

Trim the nose (opposite end of the hook) of the disco to allow the DA to break earlier. What I?m trying to tell you is not even in the picture of the disco you posted. That?s what I did to have my DA break earlier.

[MoRivera]

Trim the nose (opposite end of the hook) of the disco to allow the DA to break earlier. What I?m trying to tell you is not even in the picture of the disco you posted. That?s what I did to have my DA break earlier.

Would that be the surface indicated as 'E' here.....?