CZ P-01 with Shield RMS mounted

[bpnkrtn]

Earl ... no offense at all amigo.  I watched the Sage Dynamics video/review also ... first time I watched it I pretty well dismissed the RMS.  But I kept thinking about it, watched their video a second time, with a little different mind set (so to speak) ... and came away with a different consideration ... simply that that level of "hard use" just didn't apply to me and my situation.  Again, no offense at all ... just gathering more information.

Somedays, I think we all share the tendency to "over-think" things ... which I still believe to be better than "under-thinking."

[bpnkrtn]

Otherwise, I guess we'd all be shooting Glocks.

Vinny ... you just had to go there ... 

[Vinny]

Otherwise, I guess we'd all be shooting Glocks.

Vinny ... you just had to go there ... 

LOL

[Earl Keese]

Earl ... no offense at all amigo.  I watched the Sage Dynamics video/review also ... first time I watched it I pretty well dismissed the RMS.  But I kept thinking about it, watched their video a second time, with a little different mind set (so to speak) ... and came away with a different consideration ... simply that that level of "hard use" just didn't apply to me and my situation.  Again, no offense at all ... just gathering more information.

Somedays, I think we all share the tendency to "over-think" things ... which I still believe to be better than "under-thing."

I'm with you, and came away from the video feeling somewhat the same. My guns/equipment aren't abused the way they do in the videos, and the RMS would probably be fine. I've never dropped one of my CZ's but I have dropped my G43 and my Shield 45, so that day will come. All of the red dot sights except the RMR are vulnerable to being  dropped.The kicker for me is the permanence of a milled slide. For my current purpose (edc), the P10/RMR are a good fit. As I get older(hopefully), I think an RDS on each of my pistols will become necessary for me to continue enjoying myself. I have a P06 in line as a future project, it will possibly get an RMS as aesthetics are important to me for this one.

[Earl Keese]

I caved today and bought an RMR. I just can't bring myself to buy a Shield RMS with how fragile they seem to be. I hope they make some improvements because they really are the perfect solution for metal framed CZ's. Until then I'll have to be satisfied with my P10 for an RDS host.

Earl ... Howdy and welcome to the world of red dots.  I'm curious as to your experience that makes you say the RMS is fragile ... I appreciate hearing about it.

To be clear, I'm not saying they're crap or anything. Quite the contrary, this would be my only choice for a metal framed CZ. I'm not new to red dots, I've had FF3's for a couple years now. One on a Kadet, another on a 97B, and most recently on my Scorpion.
 The RMR/P10 will be my first to have milled, so I've been watching reviews and reading before making the commitment. Admittedly, I don't have first hand experience with the RMS other than holding one. My concern comes from watching the review by Sage Dynamics and reading anecdotal evidence elsewhere. Post 19 in this thread is one of those examples. Honestly I was still on the fence, but that comment pretty much sealed the deal for me. I promise, I don't mean to offend or question anybody else's choice.

Earl, I think you made a good choice with the RMR on the P-10. The P-10 slide top is wide enough to accept the wider RMR hole pattern without a mounting plate, yes?

This thread is exploring the options for the narrow CZ-75 slide top; what RDS will fit without needing a plate; and what RDS will fit in front of the rear dovetail that can utilize the stock CZ irons as lower 1/3 co-witness backup. As far as I can tell; the Shield RMS (or RMSc) is the only RDS that can accomplish both. A good cost-effective set-up. Thanks to Bpnkrtn for starting this post.

As far as Sage Dynamics RDS torture testing.....The Trijicon RMR survived using the RDS as a virtual hammer and dropping gun and RDS repeatedly on concrete. Kinda like the MAC torture tests for handguns. The RMR and DPPro are both very solid. No question. I have 2 DPP's and 1 RMR. Really good, but each have their shortcomings. I don't believe they tested the new Shield RMS.
However, I don't use my guns as a hammer nor do I drop them repeatedly on concrete or soak them in wet dirt and expect them to work 100%. Otherwise, I guess we'd all be shooting Glocks.

They did test the RMS. It was a very short review as he dropped it early on and it stopped working(iirc).
 I also pointed out in my post that in regards to form, the RMS would be my choice on a metal framed CZ. Your Glock comment is amusing, maybe a little confirmation bias creeping in though.

[Vinny]

Earl,
No worries.
I always respect and appreciate your comments on the forum.

I must have seen an earlier version of Aaron Cowan's RDS review; as I believe he was referring to the Gen 1 Shield/JPoint; but I'm probably mistaken. I'll have to look again.

I still have one Glock, a 17 Gen 4 MOS with DPPro RDS mounted. It's such a tank (both RDS and Gun) I can't part with it. When I have ammo that won't feed in other guns, I feed it to my Glock. Hey, just kidding.

The ability to share info and experiences on this Forum is priceless. Especially when it comes to electronics; where the paradigm can change every 6 months.

Thanks for your thoughts. -Vinny

[Earl Keese]

"Earl,
No worries.
I always respect and appreciate your comments on the forum."
 
Same here Vinny. In the long term, the results that end up being posted here will dictate which way I go with my P-06. I've spent a lot of time looking for info about the RMS and there is very little to be found. When I asked about it on FB, all I got was "buy an RMR". Not helpful at all and I almost shelved the idea all together as I don't want to ruin a gun that's out of production.

[Vinny]

"Earl,
No worries.
I always respect and appreciate your comments on the forum."
 
Same here Vinny. In the long term, the results that end up being posted here will dictate which way I go with my P-06. I've spent a lot of time looking for info about the RMS and there is very little to be found. When I asked about it on FB, all I got was "buy an RMR". Not helpful at all and I almost shelved the idea all together as I don't want to ruin a gun that's out of production.

Update: I think I found the later Sage Dynamics Gen 2 Shield RMS Review (Oct 2017) you were referring to. It did not survive the concrete drop test as the aluminum body bent badly. Aaron Cowan also did not like the light auto-adjust using a pretty high intensity 800 lumen Tac light, the dot washed out on a white target. I had not seen this; the review I had seen was an earlier review with the Gen 1 JPoint. I'm not as concerned about the auto-adjust, as I find it works fine for my HD purposes with a 200-300 lumen light. Drop test....hmmm?

[Vinny]

In the long term, the results that end up being posted here will dictate which way I go with my P-06. I've spent a lot of time looking for info about the RMS and there is very little to be found. When I asked about it on FB, all I got was "buy an RMR". Not helpful at all and I almost shelved the idea all together as I don't want to ruin a gun that's out of production.

Earl,
I understand your concerns about getting locked into a specific mill cut on a special gun, for an optic you might not like or won't be serviceable long-term. That's why I've hesitated milling my SP-01, opting instead to use a 'temporary' set-up with Leupold CZ-75 mount and a JPoint.
Have you considered CZ Custom's mult-optic cut for CZ 75's? Basically, they offer optional plates for virtually every optic out there. This would give you long-term RDS options. But unfortunately not the ultra-low melt-in or conserving both your existing front and rear for BUIS that the Shield RMS (or RMSc) might offer.
I also understand your concerns that the Shield RMS might not be up to full-time duty, or even long-term EDC use. I think it's probably fine for HD or Sport/Competition use. Maybe it is fine for carry despite Aaron Cowan's harsh review but only time will tell. I wish the RMR hole pattern would allow low mount directly on a CZ-75 without an adapter plate, but maybe that's still your best option? Depends I guess on your intended use. YMMV and you make a good point.  -Vinny

[s0nspark]

Even though the RMR is the current top dog in the "I can take a beating" contest, that level of durability is only one factor among many that weigh in when choosing an optic.

It is great to see other vendors trying different things... innovation drives progress!

When asked by the dot curious - despite my love for CZs in general and the P-07 in particular - I usually recommend an optic-ready handgun as a starting point. This approach has the added benefit of simplifying the choice of optic - thanks to the adapter plate configuration - so you could start with a more affordable optic and get on with getting your feet wet. Then, after putting some time in behind a Glock MOS or some such, you would at least have some solid first-hand impressions before taking a more permanent plunge and milling a gun for a specific optic.

[Vinny]

Even though the RMR is the current top dog in the "I can take a beating" contest, that level of durability is only one factor among many that weigh in when choosing an optic.

It is great to see other vendors trying different things... innovation drives progress!

When asked by the dot curious - despite my love for CZs in general and the P-07 in particular - I usually recommend an optic-ready handgun as a starting point. This approach has the added benefit of simplifying the choice of optic - thanks to the adapter plate configuration - so you could start with a more affordable optic and get on with getting your feet wet. Then, after putting some time in behind a Glock MOS or some such, you would at least have some solid first-hand impressions before taking a more permanent plunge and milling a gun for a specific optic.

Very solid advice from s0nspark!

My first RDS was a Glock 17 Gen 4 MOS with a Leupold Delta Point Pro and optional DPP rear iron; so all I had to do was select the correct mount plate among 4 included, and order the correct FO Front Sight from Dawson (.460) to co-witness and I was good to go.  It's still a great combination that I have no intentions parting with; but at some point I could swap out the optic IF I was so inclined.

Of course, once my 'ol eyes got used to the speed and accuracy of a RDS; so began my journey along the road converting my beloved CZ's to RDS; the next being a P-07 and then....   YMMV

[Earl Keese]

When asked by the dot curious - despite my love for CZs in general and the P-07 in particular - I usually recommend an optic-ready handgun as a starting point. This approach has the added benefit of simplifying the choice of optic - thanks to the adapter plate configuration - so you could start with a more affordable optic and get on with getting your feet wet. Then, after putting some time in behind a Glock MOS or some such, you would at least have some solid first-hand impressions before taking a more permanent plunge and milling a gun for a specific optic.

I picked up a TP9SFX for this exact purpose. I mounted one of my FF3's and figured it would sit low enough to learn with.The only problem is that I don't really enjoy shooting it, but that has nothing to do with the rds. Btw, sorry if I caused this thread to drift off topic. Back to metal CZ's and RMS's. 

[bpnkrtn]

I have to add my "me too" ... started with a M&P9 CORE ... ran it with a DeltaPoint Pro, RM06, Fast Fire.  That time pretty well convinced me that with aging eyes ... an RDS was the way to go.  During this time I also "discovered" CZ compacts and the more I shot a PCR the more it seemed to be made for me (except for the 89 lb. double action trigger).  Unfortunately I then learned that the CZs were some of the most difficult designs to fit with RDS, given the narrow slide profile ... about par for the course for me 

I continue to appreciate all the good information/input that this thread has generated

[s0nspark]

I picked up a TP9SFX for this exact purpose. I mounted one of my FF3's and figured it would sit low enough to learn with.

I was just about to amend my post to add a recommendation for the TP9SFX when you posted this. It is, I believe, the most affordable RDS host available...