Author Topic: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?  (Read 61601 times)

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Offline MFI

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2019, 03:41:28 PM »
Anything better? I don't want to mill the slide.

Offline MFI

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Offline adrian

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2019, 07:04:47 PM »
     Hiya MFI and see you are still in the seeking phase. I'd imagine that following some completion shooting events could net an opportunity to shoot your or another platform to see if its right for you. Perhaps a local range has a rental to test out?. Only reason I suggest is because having owned a Cmate and added a c-more to a shadow,it didn't work out for me,and its not a big deal to return back to what worked fine in the first place, but would have been nicer without the price tags involved and the loss of resale value. As long as you can see a front sight you are in business,I might consider it again when I cannot. Be well.

Offline MFI

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2019, 07:25:09 AM »
My problem is I can see the front sight with 2.0 glasses but the target is now blurry. I'll see if the range has a rental but in CT there arent any competitions to go to.

Offline s0nspark

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2019, 07:47:40 AM »
Anything better? I don't want to mill the slide.

What gun?

My first several red dot guns were milled but I have become more of a fan of the optic-ready options.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline C-Zed Head

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2019, 04:25:22 PM »
 I am getting my P10c back from Jagerwerks after work today 8)(might have to leave a little early) i am putting a green Holosun 507c on it. lots of C's. i'll post pics
ok you look at front sight, target, rear sight, target, front sight or go front sight, blur, blur.
 it is faster to do dot on target. as far as finding the dot in the window at the gun store and not liking it it is one of those things like getting a your first dot on a rifle and moving away from irons, it takes time. And not having a repeatable cheek weld... takes time with a pistol. dry fire for a month and its programmed in pretty well. if you practice, it will be easy, and you only have to focus on target. the dot is right there and its not a back and forth with eyes focusing. even if you sport 20/15 vision the dot is king over irons once you can present it consistently. Again practice practice practice

Offline CZFanGrrl

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2019, 11:07:49 AM »
I started shooting at age 53 and picked up a CZ Shadow 2.  Aging eyes and myopia, in addition to bouts of one sided double vision and depth perception problems from a medical condition made it a constant battle over whether I see the front sight or I see the target.

As soon as the optic ready CZ Shadow 2 was released in Canada I bought one and installed a Vortex Venom 6 MOA to test the waters.  What a revelation!  I could now wear my prescription glasses, now able to see the target and the RDS clearly superimposed over the target.  My shooting speed dropped off significantly at first, adjusting to dot acquisition, but within a few months I was shooting faster and far more accurately than previously.  I graduated from being a low 20% club match shooter to currently courting 60% within those three months.  In Steel matches I am doing even better.

I’ve now turned my P-09 into an optic modified gun running a Vortex Venom 6 MOA, I purchased a second Optic Ready Shadow 2 and am now running a Trijicon SRO 5 MOA on one and a Leupold DDP 7.5 MOA on the second which is solely for practice. 

If you’ve got aging eyes, RDS are the way to go and a way for you to keep enjoying and excelling at competitive shooting.  Making Production Optics a permanent division in IPSc was a brilliant decision and it’s definitely here to  stay. 

https://youtu.be/e7--dBGcIN0
CZ Shadow 2 Optics Ready with Trijicon SRO 5
CZ Shadow 2 Optics Ready with Leopold DPP 7.5
CZ P-09 with Vortex Venom 6
CZ P-10F (no optic ready.....yet) but I did buy it a Kidon! So now it wears a Vortex Spitfire 3MOA and a Vortex Venom 6MOA at the same time!

Offline mbliss57

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2019, 12:14:47 AM »
Thanks this exactly what I needed. I read and posted on your other thread about mounting Co witness on a dovetail. This is i much more generalized. The might consider making this a sticky.
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Offline 2morechains

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2019, 09:12:53 AM »
I’m a fan of RDS.  Failing eyesight up close from aging eyes, same as many of the rest of you I suspect.  For the last few years I’ve been using corrective eyeglasses to help me focus on the front sight, but last year I just accepted the inevitable and started converting competition as well as EDC guns to RDS.  Plus shooting with a RDS is fun. 

My first experiment with a RDS was with a .22 Marvel conversion that I mounted a 6MOA C-More for Steel Challenge shooting, later went with a Vortex Razor.  Next up was my P10C that I sent to Jagerwerks for milling to accept a Trijicon RM07 for use in Carry Optics as well as EDC/HD.  Despite the small window I chose the RM07 because of Trijicon’s reputation for durability and also opted for BUIS since this was my EDC/HD gun as well.  I spent the next few months transitioning to a RDS gun.  At first I relied on the BUIS to help me acquire the dot, but after enough dry fire I got it to where the dot was in my sightline whenever I brought the gun up. 

Mid-2019 I sent my Shadow 2 off to F4E for slide milling.  This was to be a dedicated competition gun so the biggest question was which RDS to go with.  At the time the Leupold DPP seemed like the obvious go-to choice of many USPSA shooters due to the large window, but I was still a little hesitant since they seems to have issues. When Trijicon announced the release of their SRO I decided to take a chance, banking on the RMR’s reputation and the fact that I was already invested in Trijicon with their mounting footprint.  The SRO and my milled slide both showed up at the end of the summer and since then I’ve been rocking the Shadow 2 with SRO in Carry Optics and have really been enjoying the experience.  The big window, bright dot, ease of controls, and durability (hopefully) made me glad I chose the SRO. 

I’m currently waiting on the Sig Romeo 0 to be released for my latest EDC gun, a Sig P365XL.  For me, RDS is the way to go.  I still own a bunch of iron sight guns, but find myself shooting them less and less.   


Offline Jolly_Roger

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2020, 03:07:46 PM »
Betrayed by our birthdates, my friends and I decided to stop pretending being young anymore and started visiting the optician and looking for iron sights alternatives.

The solution they found were RDSs mounted on adapter plates for their guns, since milling the slide is not an option here. They had to raise head / change the grip on the gun to get on the sights but they managed.

I went a bit further and ordered a CZ Shadow2 OR that came already milled and bought an adapter plate for Burris/Docter/Vortex RDS.

By trial and error (luckily I was able to get rid of them) I found out that the RDS that suits me was the Vortex Viper. It has the lowest line of sight of all and I am used to present consistently (all my guns are on CZ75 platform, even the P10F has the same frame/slide angle) so I don't have to make adjustments.
The only drawback is that the rear sights were on the plate that had to be swapped so I cannot really speak of co-witness. But there's a solution to that, I changed the front sight with a higher one and I can shoot 3-4 inches groups at ten meters at a quick pace without the need for rear sights.

Anyway, I recommend getting an Optics Ready gun or milling the slide instead of using an adapter plate since this needs a lot less training with acquiring the new sights.



Offline DesertRatR

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2020, 04:53:43 PM »
So I saw Vinny's post this morning and was curious. I've never been impressed with RDS, mainly because I thought it would take too long to get on target. And I shoot well enough (80% or better most days) with iron sights (my near field vision, within a foot or so is getting bad ... had to get some +1.25 readers recently, but long distance still works.... I can pass the MVD test without glasses, for whatever that's worth, and the sight picture is still clear.) Long, long ago I had bought an Ultra Dot (can't recall why, except maybe I was dreaming of Bullseye Shooting).  Anyway, I never got used to it, so it sat in the closet for years, until today, after reading Vinny's original sticky. I put it on my Tacsol Pac-Lite with 4" barrel, got a new battery and headed out to the club. I set out a B-16 25 Yard Slow Fire target at 12 yards and with both eyes open just blasted away, stopping only to change mags, and striving to keep the red dot in the center of the black. I have never mastered shooting iron sights with both eyes open, and don't even try, so this was interesting. After the 50 shots I pulled out my binoculars and counted 8 holes in the 8 ring the rest in the 9 with a good chunk of the 10 missing. All I did was keep the red dot on the center of the black (I noticed if the illumination is too high the dot burrs and bothers my eye). I must have zeroed it at one point because it seem centered. 

I can see this leading to more expense, just because.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 04:57:50 PM by DesertRatR »

Offline Vinny

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2020, 10:33:53 PM »
Yeah, there's an expense involved, but for older shooters like myself with diminished eyesight, it can keep you in the game.

Changing to target focus with both eyes open is most challenging for good iron shooters. However, once over the learning curve there's some big advantages such as greater situational awareness; in addition to shooting faster and more accurately.

What I find interesting at least in my own (limited and non-professional) experience is the same presentation with both eyes target focused and driving the pistol out toward the target works best not only for Red Dots, it also works for my pocket laser-equipped pistol and point shooting.

Although my defensive pistols have back-up irons, I never ever even look at them anymore.
Just press out with both eyes on target and the dot (or laser dot) is there. Bingo!






 
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Offline tessitori

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2020, 12:08:53 PM »
Sorry to revive an old thread but I have a question.  I did purchase a Leopold Deltapoint Pro dovetail mount and I wanted to know if these mounts are universal or optic specific. 

Offline Vinny

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2020, 06:14:17 PM »
Sorry to revive an old thread but I have a question.  I did purchase a Leopold Deltapoint Pro dovetail mount and I wanted to know if these mounts are universal or optic specific.

The DeltaPoint Pro footprint/mount holes should fit several optics that have the same footprint. For example: SIG Romeo 1 Pro, J-Point, Shield RMS & RMSc, Swampfox, Holosun 407K/507K and there may be others with that footprint. However, mounting screw length might be specific to each optic. Trijicon SRO and RMR's unfortunately have a different footprint and bolt pattern.  The vendor should be able to confirm if their optic has a DPP footprint.
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Offline Duke Nukem

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Re: Considering a Red Dot, How Do I Start?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2020, 10:31:18 AM »
I purchased a EGW dovetail mount sold for Deltapoint Pro (and Shield RMS and others), they say it can be modified to fit the Holosun 407k/507k by filing off the rear posts and reducing the height of the front posts.  I bought one, and here's what I have been going through:

The mount came with two pairs of screws, as did the rds, but I had to buy screws anyway to get the right thread size, length and head shape.  After pressing the mount into the dovetail and getting everything anchored, I took it to the range only to find out  that at 25 yards it was hitting two feet high, well beyond the range of adjustment to zero it.  I don't know why this I contacted both EGW and Holosun to see what they would say, EGW said they had heard of it happening with some sight/mount combinations and suggested a tapered shim (didn't hear back from Holosun).  I ordered one and it would have worked except I needed the thick part of the shim at the front of the mount, and it was thicker than the locating posts, which would mean the screws were going to be doing all the work. 

Figuring it was too late to return the mount I had nothing to lose, I got out the file and abrasive stones and proceeded to file down the top of the mount at an angle!  The file was fast, but I needed lots of work with the stones to get things as flat as possible.  Eventually I got it acceptably flat and angled where I could zero the rds with some extra adjustment available if needed.  Now the top of the mount is bare metal, and it's a little wider than the sight so it shows both sides; I need to deal with that.

It was less expensive and faster to go with a dovetail mount, but it's definitely not as good as a direct slide mount (or even adapter plate to slide) would be.  I do have the option to reverse what I've done, but in fact I plan to go forward with slide milling at some point, because I took to the red dot right away; it's easy to use and I'm shooting tiny little groups compared to before.