Author Topic: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness  (Read 8859 times)

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Offline SIGnoramus

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P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« on: August 23, 2018, 07:30:31 PM »
How do the hammer-fired CZ P-series pistols compare to GLOCK in regard to simplicity of design (ease of repair/upgrades) and robustness/reliability? I have owned six GLOCKs and a couple of CZs, but I haven't had the pleasure of owning, or even shooting, a P-series pistol. I realize there will be some CZ bias here, but I know some of you guys have GLOCKs as well.
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Offline Mjolnir

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2018, 07:34:22 PM »
I do not think any pistol has proven to be more reliable/robust/durable than the Glock 17.

And that includes the P-Series CZ (and H&K).


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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2018, 05:21:40 AM »
The P series is as simple as you will find in a hammer fired gun but I suppose glocks are simpler for most to work on. As to reliability. Who knows.My P-07 is coming up on 10,000 rounds and never broken anything,no issues.
I won't own a striker fired anything but I have friends who own glocks and they are not the toughest most reliable gun that the die hards claim them to be.These guys have had plenty their share of issues with glocks and many have made the trip back to the factory for surgery for various issues. They break just like any gun breaks.
If you really think in the real world you can run a gun any gun over with a semi and have it be 100% reliable after that give it a try sometime.

Offline armoredman

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2018, 06:44:10 AM »
I have had three Glocks fail either in my hand or right in front of me. However, I have been issued and carried Glock 19 for 16 years now, and I have seen that they are generally well designed, robust accurate and dependable sidearms - they just don't FIT me worth a darn! The Glock turned me off of all striker fired pistols until I laid hands on my P-10C. Incidentally I qualify Expert or Distinguished Expert with the G-19 every year.
The P-07/09 have not been out and widely issued to garner the rep that Glock has over the years. I think they are as well built, reliable and accurate as any Glock, if not more so, but like you said, my bias is showing. The SP-01 Phantom has been general issue in the Czech military for some years now, and while I haven't heard any negatives, I haven't really looked nor have any been publicized by the Czechs.
In the long run I expect the P series pistols will prove to be as good as if not better than the Glock. Personally,. I already feel my P-10C will do everything a Glock 19 can do, better for me, and with style. ;) Again, personal opinion, not backed by enough real world hard data yet to be definitive.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2018, 06:50:41 AM »
I own a glock (that lives in the safe - patterns are for shotguns, not handguns) and I've never gone farther than field stripping it for cleaning after a range session.

I own three P series CZ's.

I don't know what tools are required for Glocks or how hard it is to take one apart (not field stripping, but APART).

I can take the ejector, sear, trigger, trigger bar, hammer w/strut, hammer spring, safeties out of my P series guns without tools.  Just push/shove/pull and the parts come out.  Same for reinstalling them.

I guess I do need a punch/hammer to remove the extractor??  I don't know, I've not taken one out yet.

For what it's worth, my Glock had more malfunctions than either of my XDMs.  Less than either of my M&P's.  The only malfunctions my P07 and P09 has had (one each) was due to my lead bullet reloads (one swelled case from bullet being cocked when seated and one failure to chamber from bullet not seated deep enough) not to breaking or feed/extraction issues with good ammo.

And the good parts - the CZ's shoot real groups, not patterns.  With the factory barrels, factory sights, factory triggers, factory springs, etc.  No extra money spent on the CZ for aftermarket match parts to make them shoot better.   I did do some upgrading through the installation of RMRs a couple years ago, but that was to help me (can't see the sights too well these days unless I'm wearing my reading glasses).

If you like a Glock, more power to you, hope it always work out for you (not just the gun working, but the outcome of what you use it for, too.)
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline monty_d_33

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2018, 07:16:41 AM »
If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back


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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2018, 08:59:16 AM »
If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back


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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.

Offline monty_d_33

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »
If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back


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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
Agreed, for civilians.  I carry in a duty capacity and have to carry specific holsters. 


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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2018, 09:18:57 AM »
If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back


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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
Agreed, for civilians.  I carry in a duty capacity and have to carry specific holsters. 


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No disagreement there holsters have been an issue for CZ's at times but thankfully most all of the custom shops now offer top quality leather or Kydex models for CZ pistols. Maybe Safariland and Galco will follow suit one day.I know they make some CZ holsters but the line is not very diverse.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2018, 11:40:17 AM »
Then again, CZ makes so many darned good pistol models. 

I have CZ 75 Compact with no rail, I have a CZ Compact with a rail.  I have a P01 (compact with a rail that is the same size/shape as the compact with a rail).  Then there's the P07 and P10c which are both "compacts".

Glock has lots of models, but how many are much different other than caliber?  I admit, I'm not a Glock guy.

Then there is the full sized CZs, which are even more varied in size and shape than the compacts.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Mjolnir

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2018, 08:30:46 PM »
I find the P-10C easier to shoot well compared to my Glock 19X VP9 and 509.

A P-07 or P-09 will always be suspect without upgrading the internals. For reliability the Triggger Return Spring needs upgrading.

To my knowledge that?s all that?s required to address a known issue.

I compare CGW P-07s to just about everything. It?s ?the perfect? carry pistol but so is my Glock 19X with Sprinco RSA and Gadget.

They are different.

I would still expect the Glock to be the more reliable platform.

Keep up your PM (Preventative Maintenance) and the differences **SHOULD** be negligible. I think.


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Offline armoredman

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2018, 04:40:21 AM »
Safariland used to make several holsters for CZ back in the day...so did Galco. I use High Noon now so I don't really know anymore. Aftermarket stuff is out there, and some VERY nice stuff, like Cajun Gun Works, great outfit, wonderful people, incredible work.

Offline SIGnoramus

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2018, 08:14:45 AM »
I appreciate everyone's input.
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Offline Vinny

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2018, 08:39:55 AM »
Own both 9mm G 17 Gen 4 MOS and P-07's for several years.
In my somewhat limited experience comparing out-of-the-box the P-07's are near equal in terms of reliability, durability and ability to feed virtually any ammo.
But IMO the P-07 excels in accuracy, ergonomics, ambidexterity for Lefty's, and the unique Omega trigger system that allows safe carry options of SA cocked/locked or DA/SA decocked.

However, Glock's MOS Modular Optic System provides an excellent entry into the world of Red Dots with this Factory-Ready multi-plate mount for virtually all the popular RDS. I give Glock a lot of credit for being among the first to offer this option (about $50 over standard models).

Yes, CZ Custom, CGW, and shops like Primary offer CZ milling for ~$200+ (incl. 2-way shipping & ins.) for RDS. But CZUSA hasn't caught up yet with the growing popularity of RDS on handguns and the factory-ready RDS options from Glock, SIG, S&W-M&P, FNH and other major factories. Someday, RDS will be as prolific as scopes on rifles.  Just Say'in


« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 11:28:39 AM by Vinny »
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Offline flattusmaximus78

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Re: P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2018, 11:11:01 AM »
If CZ had the aftermarket support that Glock has (that?s you Safariland) I wouldn?t look back


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We have BETTER aftermarket support for our CZ's through CGW and CZ Custom who deliver top quality parts always. Yeah there's a bunch of outfits making gimmicks for glocks but it's not all quality either.
That isn't really the same thing. Most people in most places, can't walk into their LGS buy a CZ and walk out with the following:  spare mags, aftermarket sights, grips, + two base plates or whatever else they want when they want it; however, things are moving in that direction for CZ, but it isn't even close.