P-Series Design: Simplicity & Robustness

[M1A4ME]

I have oiled (Mobil 1) every striker/channel/sleeve on every striker fired pistol I own (Glock, XDM, M&P) and never had an issue.  Just seems to me if it moves, it ought to be lubed. 

Maybe I'm just lucky.

The single failure I had on my Glock M31 was a stove pipe jam.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.

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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.

I stand by my opinion.  The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?

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 I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.

[Jeep_Nut]

I have oiled (Mobil 1) every striker/channel/sleeve on every striker fired pistol I own (Glock, XDM, M&P) and never had an issue.  Just seems to me if it moves, it ought to be lubed. 

Maybe I'm just lucky.

The single failure I had on my Glock M31 was a stove pipe jam.

It's not recommended to oil a striker channel as it can gum up the works over time. Carbon and other debris can build up in the channel clinging to the oil. I always disassemble any new/used striker fired pistol I get and thoroughly clean the channel with a shot of non-chlorinated brake clean or alcohol. I follow the pic below for reference on oiling my Glocks. Ymmv.

[Raining_Brass]

I would definitely never recommend striker/firing pin lube. Once that lube mixes with carbon it turns into slush.
We have disassembled so many Glocks and CZ's from guys who lube those areas and what we clean out is something all I can think to compare it to is sludge. There's no way they weren't having light strike issues with those guns.

[wild_Bill77]

Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.

I stand by my opinion.  The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.

I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.

I stand by my opinion.  The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.

I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.

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Not really interested in seeing any CRAP just for you to show where any gun company has posted a production or design change that wasn't a safety issue. I'm not making excuses for anyone or harping on anything just stating a fact and if you would read and understand what I wrote you'd understand the part about warranties and how companies honor them.
Clearly you weren't around when the P-07 Duty came out and had problems.CZ replaced many of those guns under warranty,there was no posting about anything.You sent your gun in on their dime and they honored the warranty,next came  some production changes beginning with B serial numbered guns and then GEN 2 models which addressed all the earlier short comings and had some other nice improvements.nice quiet and effective.
Like I said I don't like the defects in new guns or ANY other product I buy and I DO try to avoid items I know have issues but none the less if a company honors the warranty on a given product I'm fine with that.
They are not obligated to inform everyone every time there is a design change or production update.

[M1A4ME]

I'm not recommending anyone oil their pistol anywhere they, or the maker doesn't recommend. 

I'm saying I oil it.  Maybe people should clean their pistols more often, instead of bragging about how many rounds they've fired without cleaning.

I guess I do a lot of things the internet says is "bad."  I clean rifles with metal (OMG, even GI steel) cleaning rods.  I never use jags to clean a barrel.  I use motor oil for lube.  I use FMJ in my 1911.  Oh, and my AR15's, M1A, etc.  Long list.  Works for me.

I never tell someone there is only one way, I just relate my experiences.

[Tyerone]

Yuckie.

I don't let my guns go uncleaned for very long, either.  Did have oil in the striker of a pocket carry piece a while back.  After dust bunnies, etc. From several days of carry, then chainsaw dust, I decided to experiment a bit before routine cleaning.  Overnight at -1 deg F to chrono some shots in the cold, and NO BANG.  Oil attracted dust bunnies, whatever in the striker channel and indeed was gummed up/frozen.  I do believe it was during my ballistol days (now use Mobil 1).  Ballistol, in my opinion "waxes" up too much for cold environments.  Nonetheless, I now keep my striker channel dry!

Frredom is wonderful.  Good luck to ya.

[badwrench]

I've read this thread, and asking which pistol is more robust, durable etc,  and comparing Glock to CZ, is in general, a waste of time, I own Hk's Glocks, CZ's, Colts, S&W, Beretta's Ruger's  (Yes, I've aquired a few handguns over the years) Frankly, ALL of them have their weak points, some more than others.. It's up to you if you can live with them or not. I'll have to agree with others here, that in terms of support, aftermarket support, nobody beats Glock..nobody, I'll say this as well, I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass) for a NIB Gen5, G19, and some cash,  I don't know what Glock did here, but the BTF issue is gone..

In the past, I've owned/still own 4 G19's( still have two,a Gen4, and the Gen5) a Gen 4 G17, and a G21(which was traded) all but the Gen 5, and the G17, needed an Apex extractor to correct BTF, and then, on one G19, that did'nt do it..  The G21, could'nt be corrected as Apex dosen't make a extractor for them.So, if you have a G21 that throws brass at you, your choices are A. send it back to Glock, and hope for the best. B. Try to fix it yourself (good luck) or C. Sell it and drive on..All I could tell anybody is to read up on whatever pistol you're looking at, and start asking yourself some questions..How hard are mags to get? Can I get them from more than one, or two sources? How much to mags cost? How hard are parts to get? Can I get them from more than one, or two sources?  What about sights?  Holsters?  If you have limited availabilty of parts, mags, my suggestion would be to stock up on mags, and on parts that are known to break, and maybe have a backup gun that's identical to what you carry.  There is no perfect pistol..some are better than others, all have their faults, and weaknesses, it's up to you, the end user, if you can put up with these issues or not.

That said, I've been shooing my P07, and frankly I'm impressed with it, I'm going to buy a spare slide stop, as well as a couple of recoil springs, and trigger return springs, oh, and mags.. one can't have too many.. I want to put some more rounds on it, and down the road plan on buying another identical to this one (ODgreen frame,  factory night sights, some basic CGW parts, extended firing pin, springs etc, nothing fancy) and keep that as a backup.. With this country as divided as it is, us gun owners are no more than a presidential election/ midterm away from having our 2Arights seriously curtailed, So think about what you want carefully, and stock up on stuff now, while it's easily available,  no matter if it's for a Glock, CZ, or HK.. It's better to have extra parts, mags, and not need them, than it is to need them, and can't find any, and end up with a pistol that's a paperweight..

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

  I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)

I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.

[badwrench]

  I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)

I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.

Had Apex tactical made a extractor for the G21, I might have kept it, it was bleeped accurate, and very soft shooting.. but the BTF was it's fatal flaw.. It's kinda hard to shoot the pistol, and duck the brass coming at you at the same time..down the road it went, sombody else can fool around with it...If Glock makes a Gen5, G21,and the BTF issue is resolved as it is on the Gen5 G19's, I might reconsider..

[Jeep_Nut]

  I recently traded a LNIB G21, that a serious BTF problem, (you haven't lived until you've been smacked in the head with a peice of hot, .45 brass)

I went through this ordeal with a series 70 Colt 1911 a couple years ago. Talk about a company run by maroons that refuses to update it's products you're talking Colt hands down.
They refuse to upgrade the GI style ejector to the extended combat style and that pistol would throw nearly every round straight back at me. There's nothing like getting hit by a hot .45 case and it's even more fun when it glances off the bill of your hat and lands behind your shooting glasses.
An extended ejector properly contoured totally cured the issue.

Had Apex tactical made a extractor for the G21, I might have kept it, it was bleeped accurate, and very soft shooting.. but the BTF was it's fatal flaw.. It's kinda hard to shoot the pistol, and duck the brass coming at you at the same time..down the road it went, sombody else can fool around with it...If Glock makes a Gen5, G21,and the BTF issue is resolved as it is on the Gen5 G19's, I might reconsider..

The BTF issue isn?t corrected on my Gen5 G19. It doesn?t happen with every round but enough to tick me off a bit. It may be ammo related but I?m not willing to buy more expensive plinking ammo just for the Glock.


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[wild_Bill77]

Now the p10 c this is where I would hit the brakes and not enter any reliability contests with it against the p07 or Glock. The design of this gun is amazing but its got some bugs still in my opinion. Reports of cracked frames and wiggling back plates and rotating strikers dont give me warm fuzzies. These issues need to be adressed and cz needs to tell people that they are instead of acting like there is no issues then making design changes in secret. But the p10 c is built tough for sure. As for egronomics there is none better than cz. The p10 c and p07 feels amazing in the hand. Glocks...not so much. But again if all you use is glock you can get used to it. Its just not ideal.

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The P10C issues have been addressed.CZ tends to address issues as fast and in most cases faster than most other makes. I don't think they ever acted like there wasn't a problem like say glock did with the gen 4 brass to the face debacle?
Not bashing glock but I don't think any one needs to put out a news release as to what changes are being made. There was never a safety issue with the P10C so a recall wasn't warranted.
CZ paid shipping both ways and repaired early models under warranty just like S&W,Springfield Armory,glock and like SIG is doing right now with the P365 issues.

I stand by my opinion.  The very fact a company will not address quality or design defects nor issue at least as statement on their website stating what they are and what they are doing about it, leaves the consumers guessing and unsure. Example imagine how many potential customers were put off by the Omaha outdoors youtube video of the rotating striker?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 I stand by my opinion as well. I'm certain the people at CZ and ANY other gun manufacturer out there have far better things to do than to spend time on youtube watching morons misusing their products and even less time to spend responding to them. I do not see anyone out there posting ANYTHING on their websites about updates unless there is a recall for a safety issue.
Please show were glock posted about the defective gen 4 models and people getting beaned in the face with spent casings or what they planned to do about it. Good luck finding that as it does not exist. Plenty of glock issues out there and where are the postings from glock?
I no fan of the poor quality across the board seen by many new firearms but they do have warranties and as long as the company honors the warranty in a timely fashion that's all that is required unless there is a definite safety concern.

I dont have to show you crap. I never bought a gen 4 glock for the reasons you keep harping on. Also I dont think since other companies are not addressing their issues either doesnt make it ok for CZ to do so. I dont like any company that pulls that bs. So I will not let CZ off the hook for it either. Anyone wants to be a beta tester for CZ go for it. I wont. This company was pretty solid until the p 10 c debacle. Now their like any other greedy company using the consumers as test mules. It was wrong for Glock, Sig Sauer and yes CZ to do this. So as long as people keep justifying this bad business practice it will continue. So by all means keep making excuses for them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Not really interested in seeing any CRAP just for you to show where any gun company has posted a production or design change that wasn't a safety issue. I'm not making excuses for anyone or harping on anything just stating a fact and if you would read and understand what I wrote you'd understand the part about warranties and how companies honor them.
Clearly you weren't around when the P-07 Duty came out and had problems.CZ replaced many of those guns under warranty,there was no posting about anything.You sent your gun in on their dime and they honored the warranty,next came  some production changes beginning with B serial numbered guns and then GEN 2 models which addressed all the earlier short comings and had some other nice improvements.nice quiet and effective.
Like I said I don't like the defects in new guns or ANY other product I buy and I DO try to avoid items I know have issues but none the less if a company honors the warranty on a given product I'm fine with that.
They are not obligated to inform everyone every time there is a design change or production update.

Hey if your fine with the warranty system kudos. Ill stick with my opinion thanks.

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[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Drive on.

[Winkel]

I know this thread has been dead for a while but I'd like to throw in my two cents.

I can't speak to Glock or any other striker fired gun for that matter but I can give my opinion on the P-series guns from CZ. 

I'm a degreed Mechanical Engineer with several years experience in custom injection molding and the tooling associated with it.  I know, how does this relate??  Injection molds are made up of many steel/metal parts, that have to go thousands if not hundreds of thousands of cycles without wearing out or breaking.  Considerations for metal types and their respective hardness are studied and that knowledge feedback loop is a great learning tool.  In other words, a mold is designed and built, then it is ran for years and during routine PM's, you can literally see what works and what doesn't, what wears and what holds up well.  Over the years, standards for sliding and rotating parts are established.  You all can take this with a grain of salt but I believe I have a pretty decent intuitive grasp on mechanical systems and machines in general.  Plus, I do all of my own auto mechanic work, plumbing, electrical, home remodeling, woodworking, etc.  Sorry, I'm rambling.......

So, today I had my P-09 apart for a good cleaning.  I've had the fire control group apart more times than I can count (I have three P-series guns), thanks to Joe's videos. 

The barrel/slide lockup on these guns is bullet proof.  It looks to be similar to Glock (based on pictures of Glocks I've seen).  My P-09 has thousands of rounds through it and the barrel and slide mating surfaces show very little wear.  There is no rattle or slop in those areas and the barrel to slide mating surfaces are large and well mated, so I would say this part of the weapon is designed and built like a tank.  I would guess that if you would check the hardness, you would find that there  are at least 7 points difference in hardness on the Rockwell C-scale.  They should be dissimilar metals as well to avoid galling but I can't attest to that.  The coatings are extremely durable.  The P-series barrels are the only ones I have that just never seem to get dirty or foul from a lot of shooting.  Yes, they get some carbon build up but it can easily be wiped off with a little oil and a Q-tip.  As I understand it, this is also a contributing factor to their accuracy (good durable lockup).

The fire control group of the Omega system is very simple.  Most of the small parts are MIM.  You can see the ejector pin witness marks and the gates on some of these parts.  The MIM process used to get a bad rap but it has gotten a lot better in the last several years.  Again, in my opinion, the simplicity of this design adds to the robustness of this platform. 

Now here, I'm guessing, but the polymer frame is most likely a Nylon, Type 6, 33% glass filled.  This is the same base material that Milwaukee Electric Tools for the majority of their power tool housings and casings.  It has a long track record of being tough and dimensionally stable over a wide range of temperature, when molded correctly.  I used to work for a molding company in Wisconsin that produced injection molds and molded parts for a lot of their tools. 

To me, these three items are the main sub-systems of this, or any other hand gun platform.  All three appear to be well designed/thought out and executed. 

Again, this is all just MY opinion, but I would consider it a fairly well informed and somewhat educated opinion. 

Sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging or assembling a cover letter for a job application but I just wanted to try and answer the OP's original question about the robustness of these guns.  Also, I only do so because I absolutely LOVE mine and try and spread this love with anyone who will listen. 

I'd like to be a CZ salesman.......

Thanks, and enjoy your new CZ (I know you haven't bought one yet but after reading this, I'm sure you will!)

Winkel