The Original CZ Forum
GENERAL => General Firearms Discussion => Topic started by: M.Ray on September 26, 2019, 02:18:19 AM
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It has been almost forty years since GLOCK was born. Through the decades, almost all gun manufacturers have been working hard to develop alternative products to replace GLOCK. But it seems still very popular. Why?
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I don't think that title is quite what we want here, we don't bash others for no reason. Title edited by me. Also, Glock remains popular due to being a generally reliable, accurate dependable sidearm that also comes with a very cheap price tag for police departments and such. I you knew how much We pay for Glocks, you'd want three of them for that price and no, I can't tell you. The grip angle on the Glock sidearm doesn't fit me worth beans, and I love CZ ergonomics all day long...but Glock wouldn't have stayed so popular for no reason.
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Ain't nothing wrong with Glock pistols. They are not pretty, and could use some refining, but they are functional, reasonably priced and reliable.
There are more ergonomic, attractive, and refined pistols available, but few that are within shouting distance of the price of a Glock.
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Not to mention, very few parts, hence very low maintenance/refurbishment cost. And easy to detail strip and all, to some extent.
I cant shoot worth a dime with them, though.
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I shot a Glock for the first time in about 1986 or 87. It belonged to one of my buddies. Even the cheap Taurus 92 copy my other buddy had shot rings around the Glock. I decided I didn't need one.
Year later I wanted a .357 SIG and made the mistake of buying a Glock M31. I tried replacing the barrel and the "cheap" Lone Wolf barrel did improve the groups, some, but not enough. It has lived in the safe for many years.
I won't buy another one.
You know how people are. Ooooh!!!! The police use it. I want one like the police use. Oooh!! Special Forces uses them. I want one like Special Forces uses.
Check out forums like arfcom or the M14 Firing Line. You might be amazed at how much time/money some people will spend to obtain the parts and sometimes someone to install them, to build an M14 or AR15 similar as possible to one used by a military unit.
I mean, you'll read "a TRW M1A" but you know it has a commercial receiver. Or a Winchester, that also has a commercial receiver. Or a "609" (or some model or other Colt made/makes) that has a commercial lower receiver.
Many people who buy a Glock won't shoot it much (just like some people who buy CZs or Colts).
And, accuracy standards vary person to person or from one type of competition to another.
I recently bought an FNS (hopefully I won't be as disappointed in it as I was in the Glock or the M&Ps) and the reviews state something like "it's accurate enough for a duty type handgun." What does that mean?
On the other hand, maybe I should be happy so many people are satisfied with their Glock groups. If more people wanted the same accuracy I get from my P07 and P09 CZs would be much harder to come by and cost much more. So all the "Glock love" is a good thing.
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Glocks have always been pretty great for me. I shoot them well, and have never had a single malfunction from any of mine.
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Hi Folks ! Went to the range with my Brother in Law and swapped pistols with him for a session. I was not impressed with his Glock 19 at all .
Loaded it up and it rattled, Mags ejected sluggishly, and it felt "snappy" compared to my P07. He WAS a pretty enthusiastic Glock supporter up to that day though. While neither of us had any malfunctions, we both agreed that my CZ was just more enjoyable to shoot !
The icing on the cake came when I showed him the purchase receipt for my "entry level CZ pistol" ! Turned out to be about $100 less than his Glock. I do believe we've got another convert in our midst !
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I'm old enough to remember the jokes about 'plastic guns' when Glock first came on the scene (after HK's VP70 first polymer entry 12 years earlier than the venerable G17). They're not laughing anymore as Glock paved the way for so many others with an extremely durable and reliable, albeit not particularly ergonomic high capacity handgun.
Although I prefer DA/SA; I'm seeing more and more favorable reviews of CZ's P-10 series in terms of accuracy, ergonomics, reliability, shoot-ability and PRICE as compared to Glock and other striker-fired. I'm not surprised to be hearing (rumors?) about CZ building a second US factory.
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Glock is still popular because of the price and tons of third party accessories. Military uses Glock, LEO uses Glock, so people what to use them as well.
I personally prefer to use "tool", not "a toy", plus Glock definitely doesn't fit my hands.
Walther, H&K - these are better polymer shooters for me than any Glock.
Nothing more to say about... oh... just remember that CZ is still the best firearm ;)
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Personally I do not own a Glock. I've shot them and like most struggled with the DA striker trigger. I won't be buying one, BUT...
If my sister were to be in the market for a house gun the good old Glock 19 would be one of my suggestions. She's about as far from a firearms enthusiast as it gets. A dear girl but somewhat clumsy and quite inept with tools and such. She'd need something SIMPLE. I'd take her to the range and let her try a .38 revolver and a Glock 19 or maybe the smaller Glock 43, then let her pick.
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I gotta be honest, I fell for the hype with Glock at first but discovered CZ and it's various "clones" pretty quick. First I slightly customized a G19 & G26 with a couple goodies but the biggie was installing the Cominolli manual thumb safety on each. Please don't hate on me, I just prefer a manual thumb safety. Bullets hurt a lot so any added safety is appreciated. I realized pretty quick that ergonomic Glocks are not I ended up building a custom NOMAD9 Defense, also with the Cominolli safety kit, and it was pretty sweet. I ended up mounting Vickers Elite 2dot tritium sites on it (not pictured). But then came Jericho's (IMI & IWI), Tanfoglio, ITM, and Sarsilmaz.
(https://i.imgur.com/kfOuQh0.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/dPdEP6x.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ewa6emN.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/qnAYWYR.jpg?1)
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I have a friend who owns Glock and he almost never cleans it. For him it's just a tool for home defense. He doesn't carry and shoots occasionally 3-4 times a year. He bought it because of the price, availability, low maintenance and general reliability.
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I like Glocks for the simplicity that they offer. Simple lines, simple construction and simple operation. They are not the most reliable guns I own but there are a couple that have been perfect in function.
For 9mm, it's CZ all the way for me but in .40 and .45 carry guns, they are tough to beat.
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Glocks just never fit me quite right until the Glock 48. I have a G48 and it is the Glock for me.
Glocks are simple, easy to maintain and run forever they are just not for everybody.
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Grendel hit the nail, I believe- "they are functional, reasonably priced and reliable". Like them or not, it's hard to deny these three traits. They give a person comfort and confidence, and once that's established, it's hard to break away. I've owned them, still have one (the only gun my wife has ever bought me for Christmas, and I can't convince her to keep up the tradition), and I respect them. They aren't my preference, functionally or aesthetically. But, I'd trust my life to one.
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Glocks are functional, but they aren't all that and a bag of chips as some suggest. To debunk a bit, people often cite that they are used by many law enforcement agencies- yes and the same could have been said at one time about Chrysler sedans, in other words "low bid". I own a Glock, and I trust it as I do several other firearms that I own. But I know it isn't infallible. For me, the grip angle is wrong (not what I was used to before carrying one) and it still gives me problems. In short, they are popular because they work, they are affordable and they are available everywhere....but for some of us they are kind of like the gal you would seek out on Friday night after your steady pulled a break-up stunt, a go-to gal but not your true love.
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As a brand, I’m agonist. I’ve found the subcompacts and 45 cal versions fit me reasonably- not the best, but reasonably. The standard size-19, 17, and its 40 counterparts not so much. Not sure why. Only Glock I currently own is the G43.
All that said, never had any failures with those glocks.
However, I prefer other polymer striker guns to Glock- for my the P10c and SIGs P320 are my preferences.
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I’ve never shot a Glock that I liked or enjoyed - but can certainly appreciate their reliability and utility worth. I will probably never own one. I already own weapons I don’t enjoy shooting - but that function for their intended purpose.
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Vinny, the new factory is being built right now in Little Rock. 8) Expect more US made P-10s, hopefully in 6 months or so.
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Vinny, the new factory is being built right now in Little Rock. 8) Expect more US made P-10s, hopefully in 6 months or so.
Good News!! And maybe that (rumored) 10+1 micro-9 too. O0 O0
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I gotta be honest, I fell for the hype with Glock at first but discovered CZ and it's various "clones" pretty quick. First I slightly customized a G19 & G26 with a couple goodies but the biggie was installing the Cominolli manual thumb safety on each. Please don't hate on me, I just prefer a manual thumb safety. Bullets hurt a lot so any added safety is appreciated. I realized pretty quick that ergonomic Glocks are not I ended up building a custom NOMAD9 Defense, also with the Cominolli safety kit, and it was pretty sweet. I ended up mounting Vickers Elite 2dot tritium sites on it (not pictured). But then came Jericho's (IMI & IWI), Tanfoglio, ITM, and Sarsilmaz.
(https://i.imgur.com/kfOuQh0.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/dPdEP6x.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ewa6emN.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/qnAYWYR.jpg?1)
One of the forums I belong to is very Glock centric. It is THE pistol over there. And yet, a few months back the owner brought up the safeties you've installed and stated he'd had one installed on his carry pistol and found out he now felt the "need" for one and was going to have other Glocks converted and would be offering similar sales/installation of those safeties on the Glock pistols used/carried by people on that forum or others not on the forum but who desired to have that extra bit of safety.
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I gotta be honest, I fell for the hype with Glock at first but discovered CZ and it's various "clones" pretty quick. First I slightly customized a G19 & G26 with a couple goodies but the biggie was installing the Cominolli manual thumb safety on each. Please don't hate on me, I just prefer a manual thumb safety. Bullets hurt a lot so any added safety is appreciated. I realized pretty quick that ergonomic Glocks are not I ended up building a custom NOMAD9 Defense, also with the Cominolli safety kit, and it was pretty sweet. I ended up mounting Vickers Elite 2dot tritium sites on it (not pictured). But then came Jericho's (IMI & IWI), Tanfoglio, ITM, and Sarsilmaz.
(https://i.imgur.com/kfOuQh0.jpg?2)
(https://i.imgur.com/dPdEP6x.jpg?3)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ewa6emN.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/qnAYWYR.jpg?1)
One of the forums I belong to is very Glock centric. It is THE pistol over there. And yet, a few months back the owner brought up the safeties you've installed and stated he'd had one installed on his carry pistol and found out he now felt the "need" for one and was going to have other Glocks converted and would be offering similar sales/installation of those safeties on the Glock pistols used/carried by people on that forum or others not on the forum but who desired to have that extra bit of safety.
I understand that not all people are mechanically inclined but the Cominolli MSK, for me, is a great product and was easy to install. I bought the frame jig from the website and an inexpensive "dremmel" tool from Walmart to install it. Total installation time, including pistol teardown, 30-45 min. I researched other add-on safeties for Glock and the Cominolli, in my opinion, was the best design and most practical application of an add-on safety. Zero regrets.
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Glock makes a great product for the money. It is a tool for a job. They have built a business model around military/LE, and have done well building an infrastructure to support that market. As long as there is a strong military/LE following, there will be at least reasonable private sales as well.
I trust my Glocks implicitly; they are reliable. They aren't my most ergonomic guns, but they WILL work. Having been through 5 iterative development cycles; it is the most refined of the polymer framed striker fired designs out there.
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M1A4ME
The Cominolli is NOT designed for the NOMAD Defense NOMAD9 frame. With only a slight bit of work I was able to install it and it functioned 100%.
[(https://i.imgur.com/jdMKd0J.mp4)][/img]
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Glocks still sells a ton of Pistols, for the same reason Kodak, still sells a ton of these
They do the job .... just point and shoot:
(https://www.adorama.com/images/Large/kkfspf35.jpg)
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Having been through 5 iterative development cycles; it is the most refined of the polymer framed striker fired designs out there.
Not so much.They are at gen 5 and they have YET to address the ergonomic issues that MANY shooters find problematic with the design while others are making striker fired polymer pistols that are every bit as reliable AND ergonomically superior to the block.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I have zero use for a plastic striker pistol but if I were in the market the Walther PPQ, HK VP or the CZ P10 lines all feel much better in the hand than any glock I've ever handled.
I have fired them all and the Walther and HK striker pistols are not only ergonomically superior to the glock they have the very best factory stock triggers on the market.
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Glock makes a great product for the money. It is a tool for a job. They have built a business model around military/LE, and have done well building an infrastructure to support that market. As long as there is a strong military/LE following, there will be at least reasonable private sales as well.
I trust my Glocks implicitly; they are reliable. They aren't my most ergonomic guns, but they WILL work. Having been through 5 iterative development cycles; it is the most refined of the polymer framed striker fired designs out there.
KnightSchneider,
Dig the Butthole Surfers lyrics quote. 8)
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Glocks still sells a ton of Pistols, for the same reason Kodak, still sells a ton of these
They do the job .... just point and shoot: ::)
::)
I thought Kodak went through bankruptcy in 2013? The Kodak that emerged from bankruptcy isn't the same company.
There may still be some of these relic cameras on dealer shelves, but I thought these cameras fell by the wayside along with Kodak's film-based biz, as digital transfer from cellphone cameras ate their lunch?
It's a fast-changing world. I suppose that's your point. Nothing lasts forever! Glock today, gone tomorrow as something comes along that changes everything.
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I've had a bunch of CZs (and CZ-pattern guns), a bunch of SIGs, a bunch of CZs over the years -- along with number of other guns, including several S&W M&P Pros.
The only ones I now avoid are the hammer-fired SIGs -- but I would like to have another SIG P210-6 someday.
I like my SIG P320 a lot, maybe a bit more than I like my CZ P10c. (Even after an HB Industries trigger system upgrade, my P10c still gives me a little trigger string. It is accurate, however.)
I prefer the ergonomics of the CZs to that of the Glocks, but while I hear a lot of complaints about the Glock grip angle, I never had a problem with a Glock IF I used the sights. If my attacker is close enough that I'll need to POINT SHOOT, I doubt that the grip angle will matter that much.
Then, too, the best qualifying score I ever got in an IDPA qualifier match was done using a Glock 34.
The strength of the Glock design is its simplicity and the wide variety of after-market parts available at generally reasonable prices. The new CZ P-10 line is almost as simple, and aftermarket parts are starting to find their way into the shooting world at reasonable prices.
There will be more striker-fired CZs coming down the pike. I hope, eventually to get a P-09, too -- which seems to be one of the best of the hammer-fired CZs (if you want to avoid spending outrageous amounts of money!) available.
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Individual pistols don't much matter as one can be different than the next.
But, my P09 9MM is the most accurate center fire semi-auto pistol I've ever fired. Worth sending off to CGW for the slide machining/cerakoting, RMR installation and back up sight milling/sight installation. More than doubled the cost of the original and well worth it. Didn't make it shoot smaller groups, did open up the conditions the pistol is usable under.
Worst thing about the P07/P09 was the magazine cost and with the introduction of the P10 it seems the cost of the magazines have dropped to a more reasonable figure.
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From the viewpoint of a relatively new pistol shooter (8 years?) who doesn't really know too history of pistol design development....
I love the Glock conceptually, although I have never owned one due to the grip angle. The Glock is the Camaro of the pistol world. You want a reliable daily driver at a good price, get a Camaro. You want to build a drag race car, get after it. Road race or gymkhana, no problem. Show car, sure. Most people that buy a Camaro don't want to know the details, they just want it to work. But, for the enthusiast, plenty of support due to the large customer base.
Here is another reason to like the Glock concept. It got all of the other manufacturers to think outside the all steel box from both a materials standpoint as well as a manufacturing standpoint. The fact that it is possible -- now -- to make a polymer frame gun that is as accurate as an all steel hand fit match gun is a real accomplishment, especially for the price point. So my CZ P-09 and P-10F are analogous to a SVT Cobra Mustang compared to the Camaro. The 4-valve engine is much more sophisticated from and engineering standpoint, but the aftermarket is weaker due to the limited customer base.
My turbo nitrous 4 valve Mustang would not have existed without the Camaro, and my P-10S and P-10F would not have been developed without the Glock to "break the mold", so to speak. As an engineer, I appreciate the Glock. As a shooter, I love my CZs.
Joe
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Price tag and pop culture. You see glocks mentioned in movies and rap songs all the time. My first time at the range, I rented a glock and thought it was fine. That is until I fired my friend’s CZ. After that I knew a CZ was what I wanted. Love my SP-01!
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I know a lot of people that just want to go to the range and shoot. They are thrilled to get 10” groups at 15 feet and would rather spend time and money on shooting than guns and gear. A $400 glock becomes very appealing to them.
I have known people who have never cleaned a gun, but religiously take their G17 to the range for happy hour once a month. There is something to be said for that.
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I know a lot of people that just want to go to the range and shoot. They are thrilled to get 10” groups at 15 feet and would rather spend time and money on shooting than guns and gear. A $400 glock becomes very appealing to them.
I have known people who have never cleaned a gun, but religiously take their G17 to the range for happy hour once a month. There is something to be said for that.
IF I could be happy with that - it would sure save me a bunch of money!
I’m just happy that the number of legal gun owners grows every single day....even if they are simply casual once a month shooters.
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Anything mechanical (or electrical) fails eventually. Anything neglected/abused is more likely to fail sooner.
I keep mine (guns) cleaned/lubed/loaded. I read (on the internet, of course) where people complain their Glocks rusted. I don't have rusty blued guns, let alone something made of the materials Glocks are made of or with the surface treatments Glocks have.
Bragging about neglecting your equipment is like bragging you cheat on your wife. Doing it isn't very smart, bragging about doing it is even worse.
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Price tag and pop culture. You see glocks mentioned in movies and rap songs all the time.
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Price tag and pop culture. You see glocks mentioned in movies and rap songs all the time.
Like the Glock 7? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany that doesn't show up on airport x-ray machines. Bet you didn't know that!
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Price tag and pop culture. You see glocks mentioned in movies and rap songs all the time.
Like the Glock 7? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany that doesn't show up on airport x-ray machines. Bet you didn't know that!
I suspect you're joking... But for those not in on the joke: the Glock 7 existed only in a Die Hard movie, not in the real world. It wasn't made in Germany... it was made in Hollywood!! :)
Even if the frame had ceramic components, the barrel and slide would still have to be metal (to withstand the pressures generated by firing rounds), and I've never seen a ceramic recoil spring or magazine spring. That would mean you've got a one-shot gun of unknown accuracy (one-shot because without springs it couldn't cycle, and the barrel, if it was ceramic, might self-destruct before the bullet exited)!
And then there's the problem of AMMO. It was only this past year or two -- long after the Die Hard series of movies died their own death -- that a couple of firms came up with non-magnetic bullets. I don't know if there are non-metallic cases possible, but even if there are, I haven't seen any ammo with both case and bullet made of non-metallic materials.
Given all of that, I suspect a ceramic guns would be a world-class KABOOM the first time it was fired!!
And it's important to understand that just because something is non-metallic doesn't mean it will NOT show up on X-rays. (Hint: bones and other dense materials show up, too.)
A Glock 7, if it actually existed, would still show up in X-rays.
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And then there's the problem of AMMO.
Not a problem! I'll bet you also didn't know there's a super-secret company operating an undisclosed location in Idaho that produced a polymer bullet that traveled over a mile to assassinate a foreign head of state, passing right through his skull and lodge in the steel wheel well of a police car completely undamaged!
Obviously lethal, that magic bullet is also so light that it seems to result in just about zero recoil in the Saber-Forstt SVL-A2 MOD-1 Modular Rifle!
;)
That's a reference to the USA series ("Shooter"), a rather poor TV adaptation of Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact". I'm halfway through the first season. Despite expecting the typically ludicrous firearms-related stuff, I don't know if I can take much more of it.
I think the idea is whatever you see in the movies, its polar opposite is likely to be more accurate.
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I want saw Wylie Coyote shoot a cannon ball with a chain attached to it and also attached to his ankle it took them darn near all the way across the canyon.😳
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All separate developments over the years.
Remington used to market a bolt action target rifle that used electricity (small battery in the stock??) that heated up the firing pin to set the primer off without having any chance of moving the rifle with the trigger broke, releasing the firing pin in the bolt. Not sure how many they made/sold but I remember seeing the write ups in gun magazines many, many years ago.
The US Army has experimented (made by defense contractor firms, not the US Army) "caseless ammo. The powder is formed into a block with the bullet stuck to it (glue?? or made into the hardened/formed powder??? It was also fired by electrically heated "firing pin". Tested, but never accepted/adopted.
Lots of non magnetic bullets around, not many non-metallic though.
I've seen solid plastic shotgun empties. Nothing metallic in it but the primer. Then again...maybe there was some reinforcing metal structure in/around the base but covered by the plastic. I remember dad and I talking about them and wondering how many reloads you could get out of the cases.
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H&K made some experimental rifles for there caseless ammo also. This was about the same time they were experimenting with polymer for pistol frames. What a silly idea like that would ever catch on. You occasionally see the Remington Etronic (?) primers for sale at a super premium. I cant remember who made the solid plastic shot gun hulls but they were fairly popular with trap shooters in the 1980's. I have a few plastic 38 special cases, these used a heel type bullet like a 22 LR. And were used as a cheap form of training ammo. And I regularly cast and shoot 1000's of non-magnetic bullets.
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That's a reference to the USA series ("Shooter"), a rather poor TV adaptation of Stephen Hunter's "Point of Impact". I'm halfway through the first season. Despite expecting the typically ludicrous firearms-related stuff, I don't know if I can take much more of it.
Don't know about the TV series - for some reason I've not bothered. But Hunter's books are great. He's a good writer, seems to know his firearms stuff, and has written a number of interesting books. I pick the books up whenever I see one. Not as often as I'd like. (I need to check Edward L. McKay here in town, as they have almost everything!)
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Point of Impact was good. The Third Bullet was better.
Firearm purists (and I'm not one of them) will find plenty of technical faults with both, but as fiction goes you can do a lot worse than Stephen Hunter. He's one of my favorites.
Vince Flynn is another... wish he hadn't died :(
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Pistol, rifles and shotguns are like cars, everybody has their favorite.
Go with what you like and have a nice day!
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They remain so popular these days due to a proven track record and name that is very well known. Glock has done an excellent job of making sure everyone knows the brand name. They are very simple to work on and are pretty tough overall. When I first got into handguns I was Glock only. This was during the Gen 3 years. I finally figured out they just did not fit my hand at all and I was not willing to dump a bunch of money into getting the grips modified. Then I discovered the FNS and M&P and they fit my hand out of the box. The Gen 4 Glock came out, but I had already moved on from Glock. Then I jumped all over the P320, but have since decided I am going full DA/SA. So CZ and Beretta are my go to now.
After not firing a Glock in about 10 years I tried a Gen 5 and I just did not like it. I do think the Gen 5 is the best generation though and would suggest people check it out for sure.
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Glock has a lot going for it. The reputation as a rock solid gun that never fails, is cheap to buy and does not require maintenance is a lot of hooey but lots of folks buy into it.
They are very reliable and are like commodity items in that you can buy one used for $450, shoot it for a year and then sell it for $450. They provide a credible platform for a reasonable cost and are somewhat forgiving of abuse. There are a couple in my safe and there’s a G23 on my hip as I type this.
A lot of folks say they are ugly but I like the looks. Sure, it’s no 1911 or high polish 75B but it does have a nice design aesthetic going.
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Glock has a lot going for it. The reputation as a rock solid gun that never fails, is cheap to buy and does not require maintenance is a lot of hooey but lots of folks buy into it.
They are very reliable and are like commodity items in that you can buy one used for $450, shoot it for a year and then sell it for $450. They provide a credible platform for a reasonable cost and are somewhat forgiving of abuse. There are a couple in my safe and there’s a G23 on my hip as I type this.
A lot of folks say they are ugly but I like the looks. Sure, it’s no 1911 or high polish 75B but it does have a nice design aesthetic going.
Personal opinion of course, but I always thought that MAS 49/56 were an attractive looking rifle. I understood I was in the minority on that opinion. As for Glocks, I think they are needlessly ugly myself, I say needlessly because a bit more effort spent on making them less blocky wouldn't cost Glock that much. But I think, and its only my opinion, that the decision-makers at Glock are dead set against making meaningful changes to the design. That might be why they failed to land the military contract this time, or so I read somewhere. They have changed sights and the texture of the grip, and other tweeks over time, but seem to think that any changes beyond that are sacrilege or something.
They work. But there is one torture test that cannot be duplicated, the test of time. I will be curious how many are still in service after say 75 years or so. In fact I rarely ever see any first gen Glocks, though I am sure some are out there.
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I equate Glocks to AK-47s. Not pretty. Not fancy. Nothing to brag about accuracy wise. Not great triggers. Better designs exist. etc....etc. BUT, just like AKs, they hold up to lots of neglect and abuse and go bang when ya pull the trigger. Judge 'em for what they are.
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I equate Glocks to AK-47s. Not pretty. Not fancy. Nothing to brag about accuracy wise. Not great triggers. Better designs exist. etc....etc. BUT, just like AKs, they hold up to lots of neglect and abuse and go bang when ya pull the trigger. Judge 'em for what they are.
Pretty-much my point
A simple "Point and Shoot" design
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I equate Glocks to AK-47s. Not pretty. Not fancy. Nothing to brag about accuracy wise. Not great triggers. Better designs exist. etc....etc. BUT, just like AKs, they hold up to lots of neglect and abuse and go bang when ya pull the trigger. Judge 'em for what they are.
I like some CZs and some Glocks. (I only have 2 CZs at the moment, and several CZ-pattern guns.) I also have 2 Glocks. My favorite Glock was a lightly tuned Glock 34; my favorite CZs are a Sphinx SDP* and a custom (IMI) AT-84s*. I also have an 85 Combat that I hold close.
*I know they're not CZs, but they don't.
From what I can find about the AK-47's design objectives, a high rate of fire using a relatively potent round (i.e., get a lot of lead down range as quickly as possible and overwhelm the opposing forces), and do it with high reliability, was far more important than a very accurate weapon. Snipers didn't use AKs, but the soldiers facing an enemy in ground combat did (and in some cases, still do). The Soviet design theory was "be practical, keep it simple, and be sure it works" and that design approach seemed to underlie almost every weapon or weapons system used by the Communist Bloc. When the Communist Bloc combatants failed, the failures were seldom blamed on the weaponry.
Glocks have been well-represented in most of the Gun Games, and if there's something about the Glock you don't like, it's very likely you'll be able to find an after-market alternative that will fix what you don't like, and it won't necessarily be horribly expensive. I disliked them at first because of the grip angle, but I found that if I used the sights, they were just as accurate as most of my other guns.
Some find Glocks ugly, but you can hear the same complaints about many of the Ruger models. That said, the Rugers and Glocks just keep on running like the Energizer Bunny.
I think the reason the Glock (and Beretta) didn't make the cut in the recent US military handgun competition was that they didn't really offer a single gun that was truly MODULAR (i.e., able to function as a 9mm or .45. with only modest part changes.) That modular approach makes a lot of sense for the military armorer in the field, and Glock (and Beretta) just ignored it.
There are a LOT of Glocks being used by militaries around the world, and the U.S. Army's 75th Ranger Regiment and the U.S. Special Operations Command have embraced them. Apparently some Delta Operators use Glock 22s (i.e. .40 S&W, an almost unique U.S. military application). The Navy SEALS last year began to phase out their SIG 228s/229s for Glock 19s and I don't think any of these elite forces would be satisfied with guns that only offered mediocre accuracy.
You don't have to like Glocks as they'll continue to do well without every CZ owner's enthusiastic support. But you shouldn't denigrate them only become you don't like how they look or feel in your hand.
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I dislike glocks because yes they feel like CRAP in my hand but the main reason being they are striker fired and I will never own such a gun. That being the big disqualifier it is not in any way shape or form possible to mod a glock to my liking as no one offers an upgrade to a hammer fired lockwork.
Others like them and that is fine.Options are what makes it work for everyone and allows us all to find what we like and what works for each individually.
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I used to be a hammer fired guy, but I now prefer striker fired pistols. I also used to dislike Glocks, but now they are my first choice for concealed carry and duty. Their accuracy, reliability, and simplicity won me over.
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Glocks are like McDonald's. There won't be any surprises. Not expensive. Reliable. There's always one nearby. Not great, but still popular.
I don't have a Glock, nor have I been to a McDonald's in years. Don't have anything against either one though.
There's a lot to be said for boring predictability.
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Glocks are like McDonald's. There won't be any surprises. Not expensive. Reliable. There's always one nearby. Not great, but still popular.
I don't have a Glock, nor have I been to a McDonald's in years. Don't have anything against either one though.
There's a lot to be said for boring predictability.
Or Jeeps.
Except Glocks don’t break.
It’s a Jeep thing I don’t understand.
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I have both Glock and Cz pistols in my safe (along with others). I thoroughly enjoy shooting Glocks as well as Cz’s. I have a glock model 22, original gen. I don’t have any problems with the ergonomics of it. In fact I find that it is one of the best pistols I have ever shot for point shooting. Basically wherever I’m looking and draw that glock and point, if I look at the sights afterwards it is spot on. I noticed that when I first bought it and was “playing around” with it. I incorporated that “pointability” into my practice regimen over the years and it never let me down. Now, for sheer accuracy I have Zero problems with it. I consider myself a hell of a good shot and can quite happily group a large one hole with the glock at 25 yards all day.
The biggest difference between the glock and my P07 is that the P07 just does it a little better in my opinion.
I have been listening to and reading people complaining about glock ergos for years. It is nothing that can’t be solved by going to the range and practicing. It really comes down to a simple question, do you want to get good or just whine?
I have shot all kinds of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and machine guns over the years and there are very few of them that I have found that you can’t become proficient with enough practice on.
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I have been listening to and reading people complaining about glock ergos for years. It is nothing that can’t be solved by going to the range and practicing. It really comes down to a simple question, do you want to get good or just whine?
I have shot all kinds of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and machine guns over the years and there are very few of them that I have found that you can’t become proficient with enough practice on.
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I've shot everything under the sun as well and yeah you can become proficient with anything with enough practice. I can shoot a J frame .38 spl as well as you can shoot your glock because I like them and wanted to be good with them. My CZ's Sigs and Berettas the same thing.It's what you like.
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I have been listening to and reading people complaining about glock ergos for years. It is nothing that can’t be solved by going to the range and practicing. It really comes down to a simple question, do you want to get good or just whine?
I have shot all kinds of pistols, rifles, shotguns, and machine guns over the years and there are very few of them that I have found that you can’t become proficient with enough practice on.
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I've shot everything under the sun as well and yeah you can become proficient with anything with enough practice. I can shoot a J frame .38 spl as well as you can shoot your glock because I like them and wanted to be good with them. My CZ's Sigs and Berettas the same thing.It's what you like.
Yep. That why they make more than one brand.
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I have been listening to and reading people complaining about glock ergos for years. It is nothing that can’t be solved by going to the range and practicing. It really comes down to a simple question, do you want to get good or just whine?
Or, you can buy a pistol with good ergos and practice a lot as well.
The Glock design is forty years old. At the time it came out there was nothing else like it. Everyone knows they're reliable and decently accurate, but they are
crucially, also very inexpensive to manufacture, which makes it possible for Glock to offer police departments VERY favorable deals to to them into their hands. That,
as well as intelligent and clever marketing (which at one time included "entertaining" customers at a strip club in Atlanta) got them their start in the US market. Now there are
lots of options in the plastic pistol market. That doesn't make the Glock a "bad" gun, but it makes it a gun with competition that has better ergos, triggers etc.
Why wouldn't people want that?
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I have been listening to and reading people complaining about glock ergos for years. It is nothing that can’t be solved by going to the range and practicing. It really comes down to a simple question, do you want to get good or just whine?
Or, you can buy a pistol with good ergos and practice a lot as well.
The Glock design is forty years old. At the time it came out there was nothing else like it. Everyone knows they're reliable and decently accurate, but they are
crucially, also very inexpensive to manufacture, which makes it possible for Glock to offer police departments VERY favorable deals to to them into their hands. That,
as well as intelligent and clever marketing (which at one time included "entertaining" customers at a strip club in Atlanta) got them their start in the US market. Now there are
lots of options in the plastic pistol market. That doesn't make the Glock a "bad" gun, but it makes it a gun with competition that has better ergos, triggers etc.
Why wouldn't people want that?
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I suppose the easiest way to put this is simply if you don’t like the ergos don’t buy it. If you don’t buy it stop whining about it.
This is not directed specifically at you just FYI...just all the pelicans that spend their lives denigrating the guns on online forums. Instead of bleepcanning a particular gun and giving everyone their “sage wisdom”, perhaps go buy a Canik and go to the range.
And yes I know, I’m on an online forum and not shooting...but I’m doing it on the sly at work.
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I'm sort of neutral on Glocks. Not a fan, but I don't oppose their use, either.
I could use one.............if I had to.
You may find the Video below to be of some interest:
https://youtu.be/DZDrgoRprVo
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My 1 and only Glock was a 17-Gen 4 M.O.S.
Kudos to Glock for developing their Modular Optic System. That was 3+ years ago, way ahead of most other brands. It came with ALL the popular mounting plates and gave me a chance to try various Red Dots.
CZ finally intro'd an 'optic ready' this year, and the mounting plates don't even come with it. Huh? Optic Ready??
I decided to go all-in on DA/SA for the safety of DA 1st round, and follow-ups with a much superior SA trigger and quick reset.
I reluctantly sold my Glock 17. But there was really nothing wrong with it. With a DPPro Red Dot it was an excellent firearm. But I like my DA/SA Optic-ready SIG's & FNH-FNX-45; and CZ's better.
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Why are there more Ford F-150's sold each year, than Bentley Continental GT convertibles?
Because not everyone can appreciate - or afford - CZ quality... 8)
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My story (mostly not about Glock)
When I was first introduced to guns I tried several striker pistols, Glock was the hardest for me to shoot - trigger control and grip angle.
Walther had better grip for me, and better trigger, but still it was not the greatest. Few years later I attended NRA Base pistol class and loved Beretta 92FS. So after that I started looking for DA/SA steel frame pistols. Because of money constraints I was looking for Beretta 92 clones (Taurus and Girsan), but it was very hard to find them at shops and ranges near me. Then I saw CZ 75B stainless steel at indoor range....
That's how my story began and I found this site. Today I own two CZ clones (Sarsilmaz Mega and CM9 G2) and.... Italian Beretta 92FS (first love).
P.S. Ironically when I was looking for Beretta in 2017 I could find CZ-75B for $150 less. I caught amazing deal for Beretta on PSA site (something around $530). These days it's hard to find CZ 75B and they are way more expensive than Beretta's.
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I love CZ's.
They are by far (after modifying them) the best shooting pistols I own.
I have spent literally over a year modifying one (happily)
However:
I carry Glocks. I don't carry CZ's.
I don't like SA/DA. I don't like the weight of all metal frames.
Why do I own Glocks?
They are the most reliable guns that I own. That is not hearsay, that is proven fact for me.
I have shot over 13k rounds through a Glock 34 without cleaning or lubricating it. I wanted to see when it would break. It never malfunctioned (magazine feed lips did) nor did it break. Finally I gave up and cleaned it. With the open slide and having shot in the rain and snow, while prone on the dirt etc it was caked in a sludge/dirt mix. I regret cleaning it because even after another maybe 10k+ rounds it still has not malfunctioned. No replacement of recoil spring, nothing.
During this time I watched friends who competed with M&P's have out-of-battery issues, front and rear sights falling out of dovetails...Sig's with broken firing pin etc. When putting a thousand of rounds through a gun in any kind of weather you get to see how they fail.
I'm not saying that other guns don't fail. I'm just saying that the one I've tested heavily does not (Glock) and I have witnessed many others that do.
Maybe the P10's are just as reliable. I dunno. I stopped competing before they came out.
Some complain about Glock really not changing their design. I think it's a benefit because their product is designed for really one purpose (in my opinion) which is to be reliable. The more you change the more you introduce variability into a proven design.
I love my ugly, brick-like, ill-fitting, plastic Glock.
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Why are there more Ford F-150's sold each year, than Bentley Continental GT convertibles?
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Frame rot.... That takes a lot of F150s off of the road. :)
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The bottom line... Glocks actually are pretty great.
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Seeing as the OP hasn't been around for a couple of weeks, I guess this was more of a rhetorical question.
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Grendel hit the nail, I believe- "they are functional, reasonably priced and reliable". Like them or not, it's hard to deny these three traits. They give a person comfort and confidence, and once that's established, it's hard to break away. I've owned them, still have one (the only gun my wife has ever bought me for Christmas, and I can't convince her to keep up the tradition), and I respect them. They aren't my preference, functionally or aesthetically. But, I'd trust my life to one.
I think YOU hit the nail on the head with that last sentence," I'd trust my life to one" and that's how I feel too. I'm fanatical about few guns or brands simply because but I can see if one concept is better than another. I dont have blind brand loyalty either. I like what works, for me and Glocks have always , always worked for me. I must be one of those weirdos who's hands and body mechanics were used by Gaston when developing his little wonder because they shoot great for me. They fit my hands and I think they have always had a sinister look that appeals to me. When it comes to tools I appreciate simplicity and Gs have that. I've just never had a problem with any of the 9 I've owned since 1989. I currently own 2, a 17 and a 21sf. I've never went over the top with any changes to any of them. Save for the sights youd be hard pressed to look at any of mine and say that they weren't stock, but they're not but they sure do look like they are. Hell, I'm no engineer so why am I going to change something and " make it better" ? I think that's where alot of folks get into trouble. Subtle improvements are fine and often beneficial but messing with weights of reciprocating mass, spring weights and things going on inside the gun I'll leave to the professional. Aftermarket parts for Glocks have made it too easy for people who maybe dont know what they are doing to make the gun worse not better. Not in every case but I have seen it with my own eyes.
This may be heresy here, and since I'm new to the CZ world I may very well change my mind, but right now if I were again to go to Hell I'd grab my Glock and go there, and Glock is not my favorite handgun by a longshot, I'm a 1911 freak but I know enough to know that my 1911s are not a Glock.
So, I think that Glocks are still so popular because they are probably just about the most widely used handgun on the planet today and are deadly reliable and I too would trust my families lives to one.
Again, give me a chance to become familiar with the world of CZs and I too may come to feel the same way about them.
Oh, and I'm not one of those people who hangs out at the range, a local gunship or a forum and badmouthed anybody's choice of firearm. I dont extol the virtues of Glocks or wax eloquent for hours about Glock being the best handgun. I make my choices and form my opinion on MY experiences, others experience leads them to where they are.
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Bump for the Mighty Glock!
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At one time I wouldn't even hold a Glock and now I own three. I have never had any issue with any of the Glocks I own, and don't expect to. They are Ugly, and not the most ergonomic hand gun for me, but I know they will feed and fire virtually flawlessly and that is why they have a place in my safe.
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I sold off my Glocks (gen 3s) years ago but recently picked up a gen 5 17 just to mess around in some local GSSF matches. I have to say, I have never shot Glocks particularly well until I tried the large beaver tail backstrap on this new gun. That literally changed everything. It now points naturally and it allows me perfect trigger control, something I never had prior. Shooting Glocks is now fun for me again and this even has me looking to add to the collection.