The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: notjustanothermini on June 15, 2011, 12:21:11 AM
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Hello,
This is a thread i am starting, for informational purposes only, NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION!! The purpose of this thread will be for me and others, to post about the recoil setups they use, spring weights, rod choice, etc. ammo used, wheather reloaded or factory (including double tap, and buffalo bore) and the corresponding spring weights used.
I welcome everyone, guy or gal, to shout out their system of choice, wheather it is a 100% factory setup or not. please if you post any thing, let us know the round count of the gun, prior to , if any modification on the recoil system, and round count through the gun after the mods have been done. also if you have any recomendations for ammo/spring weights combinations that worked for you.
PLEASE NO REHASHING OF OLD B.S. as we need a sticky, or some wealth of information on this topic, other than 2 page onlg threads with a lot of opinion. facts here based on YOUR OWN experience ONLY!!
And Please do not mention, in any way shape or form, "Crack Dreams". you know what i mean. and keep it informative and to the point.
thanks,
NJAM
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http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34042.msg187837#msg187837 (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34042.msg187837#msg187837) You might want to check out this post from a year ago. R S
Remembering Bill Ruger.
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okay lets get started.
there are a few options out there for buffering the recoil on a eaa witness, all of whicdh are pretty good to great.
starting with the basics.
one could order a wolf recoil XP (extra power pak) with a 16 18 20 22 pound springs and use these with the factory guide rod, which a ton of people do and have no problems at all, as i have HEARD of folks using a 22# spring in 9mm!! to me that seems not right, like the gun wouldn't work, but i have read some do, as i have read some use a 8-9# spring in 9mm, with this info one might say "what gives"?
i don't know, but there is a such thing as over springing a gun, which in turn creates the same problem as under springing a gun, IE--> the slide being blown back with such force, at its rear most position, it has a tremendous amount of stored kinetic energy, and when it slams back forward, you have the slide slamming just as hard in its forward movement, as the impact of a under sprung gun as the slide moves rearward after being fired.
half a dozen either way you look at it.
so some guys are perfectly content with a switch in recoil spring weight to the next size up and the gun runs fine. others like me, are never satisfied with anything, and watn the ultimate everything and anything.
i use, as stated before, a hennings cone-fit guide rod, matched spring weight for the load/caliber i shoot, along with a buffer tech recoil buffer pad thing. when i first installed this system i used the henning rod, with the factory 10mm spring, and the buffer installed. i would hand cycle the gun empty, no bullets. and i for the life of me, could not get the slide to hold open, or in other words, the slide catch notch was now to far forward of the slide catch/take down pin. it was attributed to the extra length the buffer added. so i began cutting the factory recoil spring, half a coil at a time, untill the slide would hold open. i ended up shortening the factory spring about a 1/4 inch or so, and then the slide would lock back.
so then i came here to ask if cutting coils of a spring changed it weight, i was sure it did but wanted confirmation, which i could not get, i needed to know did it maybe up the weight or decrease the weight, common sense would tell you it would decrease it not so, here read
Popular wisdom" rules. Cutting coils does increase the spring rate. Let me explain why.
The strength of a spring, leaf or coil is a function of the cube of the steel used. Keeping with the subject of your question, coil springs, the diameter of the wire and the length of the wire will give us the amount of steel used.
For this whole discussion we will be talking about springs with the same wire diameter and the same inside diameter. The only thing that will change will be the length of the wire used to wind the spring.
The longer the wire is the lower the spring rate. As the wire get shorter, such as when cutting the coil, the spring rate increases.
So everyone has a clear understanding lets describe what "rate" is. Rate is the amount of weight it takes to deflect a spring one Inch.
A very common mistake is to think that spring rate is how much a spring supports. How much weight a spring is designed to support is called "Load" or "Designed Load" or"Load Rate". This is cover in Spring Tech 101.
Rate and Load Rate are two totally different animals.
The calculation to find the rate of a coil spring is:
11,250,000 times the wire diameter to the 4th power divided by 8 times the active number of turns times the mean diameter cubed.
Active turns are the number of turns of the spring that do not touch anything. Any part of the coil which makes contact with anything becomes inactive, that is it no longer functions as part of the spring.
The mean diameter is the inside coil diameter plus one wire thickness. Or the outside coil diameter less one wire thickness.
Let's say for example a 1967 Mustang GT front spring is made from .610 wire and has an inside diameter of 3.875" and has a free height of16.145" (not installed) and is deflected down to 10.5" (load height) when loaded to 1,519 Lbs. (load rate) This spring has a spring rate of 269 Lbs.
This spring has 9.33 total coils but 1.33 coils touch the spring seat so they are inactive leaving 8 active turns. (I know this from the Ford blue print).
The mean diameter is 3.875 + .610 (The inside is the important diameter because it is the inside of the spring which is used to locate the spring on the corresponding suspension parts. The outside diameter is not considered because it will change with a change of wire diameter)
Do the math-
11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 8 active turns x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 269 Lbs.
Double check the math - 16.145 - 10.5 = 5.645 deflection. 1,519/5.645 = 269
Now if we cut say 1/2 turn off this spring the active turns become 7.5.
So 11,250,000 x (.610 x .610 x .610 x .610) / 8 x 7.5 x (4.485 x 4.485 x 4.485) = 287 Lbs.
While the rate is increased the load is unchanged. Rate is the amount of weight required to deflect the spring one Inch while load is the amount of weight the spring will support at a given height.
Cutting coils is limited to those types which have tangential ends. Tangential ends are those which spiral off into space. If you tried to stand the spring on end it would fall over.
more to come
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so now that that little spring primer is out of the way. lets continue.
okay like i said above, i use the hinnings rod, buffer tech buffer and proper spring for caliber or power factor.
the hennings guide rod, has a bevel on it, which put the force of the recoil in a linear manner a full 360 degrees around the area called front insert ( witness P parts diagram) the steel guns have this also, but it is part of the frame and there is no Part number or name for it in the steel gun diagram. i call it the cam-block. and it will be referred to as the "cam-block" from here on out.
the factory guide rod when installed puts it force of recoil against the barrel where the slide pin goes through, the front part of that is where the rod rests against. with hennings the force is not put on the barrel but the frame instead. also on the factory rod, when you install a buffer tech buffer, the buffer rests against the front of the "cam-block" and is a buffer betweent he front of the slide and frame. with the hennings it make sthe buffer sit just enough to completely put if off the frame. and instead it leaves a 1/16th of an inch or so between the buffer and frame (cam block). so it changes thing significantly.
i use this hennings rod, buffer tech buffer, and 18-22 lbs springs depending on "hotness" i use 22 for super hot double tap and swamp fox "fully supported chamber loads, i use the 20 for some double tap, and all cor-bon, and the 18 for Winchester super X silver tips. and for anything else 10mm i use the 16 lbs spring. federal ammo is way underpowered, and hence gets the 16 lbs spring.
now the buffer tech buffer. these things have a pretty much "set in stone" way of getting the crap chewed out of them in the first box of bullets you shoot, and needs replaced. at $10+SHIPPING each these are not cheap. but with the hennings rod, they stay fine, show virtually no wear, i have over 250 rounds of hot 10mm and bout 70 or so of hot .40sw through the gun with the same buffer tech buffer, and it is no worse for wear.
in closing on the setup i use, like i said earlier, you can jsut use the factory rod, no buffer and jsut a heavier spring, and be all good, good as in the gun shoots softer, takes less of a beating, and inturn makes you more accurate, and it jsut sounds better when shot with a heavier than factory spring. the sound im refering to is teh slide/frame impact.
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now on to the "SPRINCO recoil reduction system" A.K.A. the sprinco guide rod.
simply put it is the easiest system out there for reducing recoil as it is only one part.
it is a nice solid stainless steel guide rod, with a silicone spring.
it has the traditional recoils spring, but at the base of the rod, is a secondary captive spring, this is the recoil buffer in this setup.
they can be had in two flavors, regular and "corbon" the regular can be used for corbon, but not the other way around, they go into this aspect of the system on their web page. i wont.
when you order this, you order based on caliber of ammo being shot.
order 9mm for 9mm and .45 for .45. the difference between them is the primary spring and secondary spring. im sure you can order one and change both the springs according to what is being shot. haven't done it, don't own one. if some one out there does have one, please post up and let us know how you use it, or if you have changed the springs weights for other calibers. like i said i don't own one, and don't want to start throwing opinion around loosely and tell you you can convert the sprinco for other calibers, but from my mechanical mindset, it really don't think you should have a problem doing so.
i really like the sprinco unit, but when i was buying my system, i didn't quite have the money for it, it is 80 dollars plus shipping. which is not bad at all. my setup cost me almost as much when said and done, with the wolf spring pak, the guide rod, and buffer tech buffer, almost as much money as the sprinco.
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now i described the various styles of recoil reduction systems, as best i can. i can atest for a fact that the system i use takes some tuning to get it to run right, couple the heavy recoil spring option with the fact I have less than perfect magazines, and i had a real chore on my hands to get this to run right. the magz i have have had the mag fixes done to them, and also needed a 15% XP mag spring from wolf, to get the shells up the tube quicker, as the slide was closing quicker.
also it took about 50 or so rounds to break in the buffer, prior to the break in, the slide would not lock back, once the buffer got compressed enough it let the slide lock back when empty. i was told i could take some metal off of the dust guard, but that IS NOT my cup of tea, i am capable, but i dont want to permanently alter the gun and force my self to have to buy buffer tech buffers all the time (althoug the one i have is going strong 300+ rounds and looks like new) i dont like to be restrained, or tied down, 100% committed to one type of setup. i like to be able to return the gun to factory if i want, and with metal taken off the dust cover, id be forced to run s buffer.
also i was told i could have opened up the notch the slide stop pin engages a little bit, which is something i would do, and probably will, as even though the slide locks back after the last shot, it is just barely catching and hard to use the slide catch to release the slide.
or you could take a spring and cut a coil or two off, but you must use a smaller weight than you really want, as stated above cutting a spring down, INCREASES the weight.
i didn't have the info about springs that i posted until today, which has a ton of info for you to be able to correctly and accurately figure out the spring weight of a spring that has been cut.
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okay i am tapped out for what i can say for sure works.
now id like to have some members post their guns setups, factory or aftermarket, what calibers power factors and matching spring weights.
what spring weight, what caliber and hotness of the load they shoot. round count is something id like to hear about also, as it is a deciding factor for many when choosing how to modify their firearms.
remember, this is a STICKY, a go to source of info for witness owners to reference when they are modding the recoil systems of their witness'.
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For the 9mm Tanfoglio Pistols, the stock 14/15 lb Recoil Spring works just fine in most cases and I've never bothered to fuss with them much.
For the .45 ACP however, that same stock spring is okay for Target loads and most standard pressure Ammunition when it is fresh/new. About 3000 rounds down the road however, it becomes a bit light and some higher frame impact will be noticed and that spring should be replaced.
My "Recoil Reduction/Spring Balancing" Methods for .45 ACP Witnesses have been as follows:
Cheap and Simple: A 16 lb Wolff Extra Power Recoil Spring will work very nicely with most all standard .45 ACP Ammunition and will last quite a bit longer than the Stock Recoil Spring weight.
Slightly Advanced: Standard Stock 14/15 lb Spring with a Sprinco Recoil Reducer. This will provide a great amount of felt Recoil Reduction and quicker response time with Standard and Target Level ammunition, yet provide more frame/slide protection. I often use this setup for IPSC Matches.
+P Level Advanced: A 16 lb Wolff Extra Power Recoil Spring with a Sprinco Recoil Reducer. This will function well with only +P level .45 ACP power level ammunition.
.45 Super Level: An 18 lb Wolff Extra Power Recoil Spring with a Sprinco Recoil Reducer. This is the Minimum level you would need for a .45 Super Conversion and I've found it works very well. I use it very sparingly. My main .45 Super loading propels a Remington 185 grn JHP at 1220 fps from the muzzle of my older Blued .45 Witness.
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thank you very much for your input, this is EXACTLY what i was looking for. keep 'em comin'.
i would like all bases to be convered, 9mm, .38super, 9x21, 9x23, .357sig, .40s&w, 10mm, .45acp, and .45 super.
and any wildcat conversions out there, such as the 9x25 dillon, .40super, .41ae, etc.
again thank you J-dubs, for the thorough info.
thread starting to take shape.
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185 grain @1220= 612 lbs of energy, thats sweet.
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185 grain @1220= 612 lbs of energy, thats sweet.
Same loading did 1390 fps out of my 16 inch barreled Manchester Arms Mark 45 Carbine (now traded off)
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/548/Mark45.jpg)
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thats 794 pounds of energy. WOW, all over the 10mm
id like to see a .40 super thompson. that'd spit fire ey?
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OK, I've been reading how to spring the Witness but see nothing yet on the proper spring to use for a Polymer compact, 3.6" bbl. in .40 cal reloads. Change rod and spring?
Thanks
Chief4
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the compact polymer frame, is already good to go.
the polymer frame and dual spring setup in the compact, is enough to buffer the recoil fairly well. IMHO
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OK. That's good to know cause I'm picking up one this Saturday. Any issues to look for with this model. Whats a good belt holster or maybe concealed?
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OK. That's good to know cause I'm picking up one this Saturday. Any issues to look for with this model. Whats a good belt holster or maybe concealed?
You need to ask these follow up questions in a separate thread, as they do not deal with Recoil Spring setup, which is the main topic of this thread. FYI, I take thread hijacking seriously here! Also, take a look at our stickyed Holster Thread at the top of this sub-forum.
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OUCH!!! I made a mistake.
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Recommendation for "springing" a 2011 year model .38 super full size Witness?
a minimum option i.e. wolff spring kit alone
or
the works (guide rod) hammer spring, firing pin, mag etc...
Known working combinations for none LEO use.
Thx,
BB
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Here is an update on my .38 Super -
Took the gun, untouched to the range, and it functioned perfectly with 130 grain ball ammo.
Ordered the "works" from gunsprings.com (Wolff), here is what the order consisted of, mind you my handgun is a recent model.
Part No. 13127 - EAA Witness XP (extra power) recoil calibration pak
Part No. 26507 - EAA Witness "short" hammer spring pak (newer models have short spring)
Part No. 32010 - CZ-75/85 XP extractor spring
Part No. 74261 - TZ - 75 / AT-84 / P-9 XP Mag spring +5%
I installed the Mag spring first, I have the original 17 round (K38) magazine that shipped with the weapon, I had to cut a half coil off to work the fitament around the plastic base pad.
Next in went the extra power firing pin spring, which is a part of the recoil calibration pak.
Extractor spring was swapped, extractor checked for burrs, again I wasn't having extractor problems but figured a heavier duty spring would be beneficial.
Lastly the hammer spring, I opted to go for the 13lb for lightest pull, I have good hand strength but I am not a big guy so I went for the lightest weight.
I plan to start with the 20 lb spring first out of the gate at the next range trip. Shoot 10 rounds and if no malfunctions try the 18lb spring next.
I will update with a final report.
NOTE - With such a light hammer spring (I can feel and see the difference) I am thinking I am going to need an extra long firing pin. Henning Shoots Guns sales them but not for the DA full size, anyone know a source?
BB
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Anyone have any ideas (and I hope I'm not thread-jacking here ::)) about where I can find either a dual spring set up or what kind of single spring I could use for a .45 Pro Comp Carry? I called EAA and they said I could buy a spring from them and have it fitted by a gunsmith. I'd rather just buy the proper dual springs and drop them in.
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Anyone have any ideas (and I hope I'm not thread-jacking here ::)) about where I can find either a dual spring set up or what kind of single spring I could use for a .45 Pro Comp Carry? I called EAA and they said I could buy a spring from them and have it fitted by a gunsmith. I'd rather just buy the proper dual springs and drop them in.
Exactly what Pistol are you talking about?
.45 Carry Comp (Rare and no longer made)
.45 P Carry ( Polymer Semi-Compact)
Generally, you can get good Recoil Springs from Wolff, but they do not sell Dual Spring Setups. Also, the Stock Spring setup for the P-Carry works very very well!
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The .45 Carry-Comp; compact slide, ported slide and barrel, etc... I should have a picture somewhere...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6821236747_0fd42dec46_z.jpg)
The finish is SUPER hammered.
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Any spring recs for full size, small frame, poly Witness .40 S&W P-S? I only have 100 rounds thru it as this point and had one FTF. I did clean it before shooting the first time. This cleaning I polished the feed ramp with some Fitz.
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Witness Classic .40 here.
I upped the spring to an 18lb, recoil is greatly reduced, brass still throws about 12 feet. Only got the chance to put about 100 rounds through it, but it seems to be no less reliable than factory. A buddy who was shooting it had one FTF, but I think he limp wristed it a bit when it happened. I noticed the gun jumping in his hands a whole lot more than mine.
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I just got a 16 pound recoil spring in the mail today, so I will try it out tomorrow. It came with a firing pin spring as well, but I'm not sure why. I did not replace the firing pin spring.
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I just got a 16 pound recoil spring in the mail today, so I will try it out tomorrow. It came with a firing pin spring as well, but I'm not sure why. I did not replace the firing pin spring.
Wolff generally includes a Firing Pin Spring that as more of a courtesy, but it is also weighted to work with the Recoil Spring. I recommend it's usage.
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I just got a 16 pound recoil spring in the mail today, so I will try it out tomorrow. It came with a firing pin spring as well, but I'm not sure why. I did not replace the firing pin spring.
Wolff generally includes a Firing Pin Spring that as more of a courtesy, but it is also weighted to work with the Recoil Spring. I recommend it's usage.
Yep, you are right, it was longer. Thanks for the advice. Can't wait to try it out tomorrow. Hopefully no more FTFs.
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After uggrading to stronger recoil and firing pin springs, the Witness .40 shot tighter groups, but I still had FTF's. But with one of my new mags, not the old one. I need to take them apart and see if it is shorter like one was in my wife's EAA SAR b6p. Boy, did I ever get some hot Federal 165 grain loads. It was flashing like crazy and made twice the noise of the other ammo. Not sure why, but it shot like plus p. Anyway, I am waiting on my final change for my .40, the more powerful mag springs. I only had ftf problems with the tulammo today on the one mag, but I'll bet it goes away with the new spring. Just my thoughts. I hope it goes away, because otherwise it's a great weapon. The sights are dead on now that I hold the weapon correctly.
7-13-13 Got the new 5% increase mag springs and that was the ticket. It was so great to not have one single FTF, while shooting some consistent groupings that are the best I have ever shot with any handgun. My Smith and Wesson couldn't come close to this. Now I am a rookie with handguns, but not guns in general. I am not as stable, nor can I see as well as in my youth, but with practice, I can see myself reaching out to 25 yards with this weapon and shooting consistent groupings. I can't begin to say how pleased I am with this Witness .40 cal small frame that only cost me $302, adding the spring upgrades, then 330.
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Very Interesting and Glad your Pistol is working as it's supposed to! 8)
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Very Interesting and Glad your Pistol is working as it's supposed to! 8)
Thanks! I shot it again with no problems again. It is fast becoming my favorite weapon of choice.
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OK. That's good to know cause I'm picking up one this Saturday. Any issues to look for with this model. Whats a good belt holster or maybe concealed?
What about the EAA compact steel wonderfinish 10mm, is it undersprung from the factory or is it also good to go? I have one on the way and I was wondering if and I should order some heavier springs.
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What about the EAA compact steel wonderfinish 10mm, is it undersprung from the factory or is it also good to go? I have one on the way and I was wondering if and I should order some heavier springs.
Don't know exactly, but I would expect it to be sprung for the regular factory 10mm/.40 S&W power level loadings and would play with heavier spring rates for full power 10mm loads. I would order a Wolff Spring Calibration pack and experiment with the loads you plan to use.
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Thank you very much, I'm waiting on a Witness compact steel 10mm that should be here next week. I'll make sure to let you guys no how appropriate the factory spring/springs are.
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Hey all, sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread but I've got a question about this (also sorry for the wall of text).
In October I purchased an EAA witness compact steel frame in 10mm. I love it, but the more I read about it online the more it seemed like the older models had a serious issue with an under-powered recoil spring and I couldn't find anything that specifically stated whether or not it had been fixed in newer models. So I purchased a 22lb Wolff recoil spring and was planning on buying the Sprinco Recoil system for it too (that fancy guide rod).
So today I get the spring, pull apart the pistol and for the first time remove the barrel and guide rod. First thing I notice is the guide rod has dual nesting recoil springs a small diameter short one right on the rod and a bigger longer one that goes over the top of the rod and smaller spring.
Second thing I notice is the manual says there should be something in the dust shroud that helps hold the spring. Nothing but spring came out for me, I looked inside with a flashlight - just metal, so to make sure it didn't pop out without me noticing I scoured the area around me didn't find any stray bits of anything lying around.
So I say screw it and put the single spring in anyway. It was extremely hard to compress it enough but I muscled through and got it together. Lo and behold the slide no longer goes back fully, and what little bit it does go back is.. difficult. Then I remembered a conversation I had with a sprinco rep through Emails when I asked if I should use their system and a wolff spring and dug it up,
"Does your Compact have a single recoil spring or dual nesting recoil springs? Recent production dual spring polymer Compact models have changed dimensionally, which disallows the use of single strand recoil springs from Wolff that are required to be used in conjunction with our system. The original Compact models utilized a single wire spring, and the original dual spring models would accept the single strand springs as well. With the dimensions in the current product dual spring Compacts, (at least the polymer versions), the spring tunnel is shorter and the single strand springs go solid (into coil bind) prior to full slide retraction, and the rounds cannot not eject because of the reduced slide travel. I do not know if the current production steel frame versions retain the original dimensions or not."
So, looks like new production steel witness compacts cant accept wolff recoil springs. Anyone familiar with this or maybe shed some light on something I missed?
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From what I can tell from your writings, the single 22 lb recoil spring over the standard guide rod, is too long to allow the Slide full travel. It will need to be trimmed till the Slide can achieve full travel.
If you are going to use a Sprinco Recoil Reducer Guide Rod, I recommend using a 16 to 18 lb Recoil Spring, trimmed to just allow full Slide Travel. The proper length of Spring is critical, so as to make the secondary Heavy Buffer Spring engage.
The newer Factory Dual Recoil Spring setup works much better than the old Single Spring, which was only18 lbs in the Compact.
You'll have to play around with it a bit to get what you want, but it will be worth it!
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Thanks for the quick response, and that's exactly right.
So I'm still pretty new to all this, but is it normal to have to trim down a recoil spring or is it just because I have the compact?
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So I'm still pretty new to all this, but is it normal to have to trim down a recoil spring or is it just because I have the compact?
The Compact Springs seem to need it more than the Full Size Pistols.
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So I was talking with Hennings, and they suggested for my Elite Limited Pro, going to an 8# or even 6# recoil spring.
Reading the rest of this thread, that sounds VERY light.
What are you guys using in 9mm with practice ammo (say 115gn @ 1200fps)?
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Update: talking with Ben Stoeger, he recommends a 10# spring.
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So I was talking with Hennings, and they suggested for my Elite Limited Pro, going to an 8# or even 6# recoil spring.
Reading the rest of this thread, that sounds VERY light.
What are you guys using in 9mm with practice ammo (say 115gn @ 1200fps)?
Update: talking with Ben Stoeger, he recommends a 10# spring.
The standard recoil spring for a full size Tanfoglio Witness runs about 14/15 lbs or so.
Standard 9mm generic 115 grain FMJ runs 1160 fps or so.
Generic 9mm 124 grain FMJ runs about 1130 fps or so.
Match 9mm 124 grain loads run 1050 fps.
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I approach the spring idea a little differently. I modify the upper and I never go above 18lbs spring in 10mm
When the 18lbs spring is fully compressed (goes "solid" in parlance) it does so 0.25 of an inch within the spring tunnel.
As the lower part of the spring tunnel is a near guillotine, I remove 0.20 from the spring tunnel at the back. This gives me some "extra" space to set my Hennings guide rod (which moves the spring forward a little and allows me to use a Hennings "dead hammer" brass shock buff.
The result is that I have perfect ejection and lockback, the gun now has a flatter face on the spring tunnel to strike the frame and/or the shock buff (which resists cracking and the slide actually has more of a throw distance to compress the spring.
I would post pictures, but I am a newbie.
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That sounds very interesting. I left my dual nesting recoil springs and just wrote the heavier Wolff spring off as a loss (was only 7 dollars). I've only shot a few hundred rounds of underwoods full power stuff but the Witness has been loving it so far. I could still stun a small child at 20 paces with the ejected shells but I'm just calling that my tactical rear defense plan.
You should definitely post some pictures of that though, If you haven't figured out how to do that yet you basically just upload your pictures onto a file sharing site like imgur.com then click the little mona lisa above the yellow faces and below the big B. That will create IMG tags that you copy your pictures link between.
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I would post pictures, but I am a newbie.
Nobody seems to read our FAQ's, sadly!
Very simple really.
1) Get a Pic Host account such as Imageshack, Photobucket, or Hunt101.com, the latter which I use.
2) Upload your Pics to your Pic Host Gallery
3) Copy ( keyboard - Ctrl+c ) the Forum Pic Link you get from Your host
4) Paste ( keyboard - Ctrl+v ) the Forum Pic Link into Your post
5) Click on "Save" when done editing
Of course the trick with Photobucket is to just click the "IMG" code, which automatically copies the pic link to your Computer, and all you have to do is Paste ( keyboard Ctrl + v ) into your post.
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Here is my spring related 2 cents thus far. On my 10mm Witness Match, I installed the Hennings Basic kit with 18# recoil spring, firing pin w/spring, reduced power trigger plunger spring and reduced power hammer spring. Works great! Function and ignition is 100%, even with low powered HSM 1150FPS ammo. Before installing the kit, the factory recoil spring was significantly deformed after only 400 rounds.
Next up is the CZ75 reduced power trigger return (torsion) spring from CGW. I will be trying this spring soon and if it works well, hopefully the new CGW trigger pin as well.
https://cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trs-reduced-power-trigger-return-spring/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/tr-pin-cgws-exclusive-floating-trigger-pin/
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Okay, so I trying to get everything sorted here so any help is greatly appreciated. I've got a Sar K2-45 that I am trying to shoot .45 Super out of. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was thinking that a 22b recoil spring and possibly a stepped up hammer spring would get the job done. I don't have the money for one of those recoil reducers, unfortunately. Does anybody know which particular recoil and hammer springs I need? Here is Wolff's site: https://www.gunsprings.com/mID19/dID100
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Without the Sprinco Unit, the 22 lb Wolff Recoil Spring should be all that you need, but I don't think you're going to enjoy shooting it.
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Okay, thanks for the reply. At some point I may get the sprinco unit if I have the spare cash. I'm not really going to shoot the gun in .45 super too often, besides testing it. I'm just using Underwoods 255gr hard cast .45 super as a woods bear defense round when I'm hiking/camping.
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I'm just using Underwoods 255gr hard cast .45 super as a woods bear defense round when I'm hiking/camping.
I have loaded Remington Surplus 185 grain JHP's in Starline .45 Super Brass for Bear, but my first line of defense is my 12 gauge Remington 1100 loaded with Slugs using a smoothbore Slug Barrel with Rifle Sights.
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Not quite an EAA Witness, but I have a few months old Sarsilmaz K2 .45 that I am planning to convert to .45 Super.
I bought a 10mm Sprinco kit that looks like it should work, and also an 18lb. Witness recoil spring. Both together seem way too long to fit. Looks like I'll have to cut the recoil spring down quite a bit.
Since cutting the spring increases the lb rating, I may just cut the original 16lb recoil spring down.
Thanks for all the great info on springs!
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FWIW, my experience with springs in Witnesses.
I am talking about both 10mm and a .38 Super semi-compacts. I only use full-power 10mm and I use 9x23 Winchester ammo in the .38 Super.
The factory springs worked pretty well, but they do allow the slide to hit the frame pretty hard. This can't be good for slide life. Plastic Shock-Buffs for CZ-75 work, but they don't last long at all. After 100 rounds they are pretty well chewed up. Heavier recoil springs (up to 20 lbs.) helped, but they make racking the slide difficult.
I got a Springco recoil reducer and it worked, but the slide short-stroked a little making the slide fail to lock back after the last round and the slide was also VERY difficult to rack all the way back. I could not even rack it back far enough to lock it back with the slide lock.
Recently I bought the DPM mechanical recoil reducer and I am quite pleased with it so far. It keeps the slide from hammering the frame and yet it is easily racked by hand and the slide locks back after the last round. So far there have been no failures that can be even remotely tied to the DPM system (I did have an extractor hook break off -- since been repaired). Yeah, there is probably a bit of easing of felt recoil, but in spite of the name recoil reduction is not what I got this for. It protects the slide and frame from the recoil of high-power rounds while still keeping the pistol user-friendly.
Has anyone else here used the DPM system on their CZ-75 clone?
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I've a Witness Elite Match 10mm.
It has a steel recoil rod, with smaller radius in middle of rod, and I use 20lbs spring on it. With my reload, on the HOT side around 750 ft-lbs energy based on my Glock 20, the case would kick out at 4 o'clock direction..... some 50ft away !!!
These loads have primers that are starting to "flatten" but not severely flatten. I've done extensive experiment to find where the extreme loads would be and back off a significant way to accommodate more than reloading uncertainty (accurate metering of powder, in my case LongShot). The good news is that the Witness Elite Match 10mm barrel is well supported, whereas the Glock 20 stock barrel does not (had to use KKM barrel just so that I can shoot hard loads). No ding on the frame as yet. I'm hoping Henning's coned rod would also help spread out the pressure.
But recoil felt by me is seemingly far less than with Glock 20.
And yes. The slide is hard to rock back, but that's ok as long as it locks on the last round and as long as it loads the next round correctly. For dry fire, you'd only need to rock the slide back just an inch or so. Do some Weight lifting exercise if you have trouble. :)
Combination recoil reducers are sexy and create higher far end resistance, but they are asking for too much dough.
Another spring, least talked about, is the torsional Trigger return spring which is similar to CZ-75 design. I used CajunGunWork's Reduced Power Trigger Recoil Spring as a replacement for the stock spring here. And it felt lighter.
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I've a Witness Elite Match 10mm.
It has a steel recoil rod, with smaller radius in middle of rod, and I use 20lbs spring on it. With my reload, on the HOT side around 750 ft-lbs energy based on my Glock 20, the case would kick out at 4 o'clock direction..... some 50ft away !!!
These loads have primers that are starting to "flatten" but not severely flatten. I've done extensive experiment to find where the extreme loads would be and back off a significant way to accommodate more than reloading uncertainty (accurate metering of powder, in my case LongShot). The good news is that the Witness Elite Match 10mm barrel is well supported, whereas the Glock 20 stock barrel does not (had to use KKM barrel just so that I can shoot hard loads). No ding on the frame as yet. I'm hoping Henning's coned rod would also help spread out the pressure.
But recoil felt by me is seemingly far less than with Glock 20.
And yes. The slide is hard to rock back, but that's ok as long as it locks on the last round and as long as it loads the next round correctly. For dry fire, you'd only need to rock the slide back just an inch or so. Do some Weight lifting exercise if you have trouble. :)
Combination recoil reducers are sexy and create higher far end resistance, but they are asking for too much dough.
Another spring, least talked about, is the torsional Trigger return spring which is similar to CZ-75 design. I used CajunGunWork's Reduced Power Trigger Recoil Spring as a replacement for the stock spring here. And it felt lighter.
OK Thanks. I guess this means that you haven't tried the DPM systems recoil spring and guide.
I have had a couple of cracked slides on Witnesses (.40S&W -- small frame and 10mm Compact) so I tend to want to ease the slide to frame contact without having to use light loads.
I am 73 years old. My hands are not going to get any stronger. The main problem is racking the slide far enough back to allow the manual slide lock to operate -- the RSO sometimes wants to see that. The slide has a rather small area to grip.
Yeah I know all about throwing brass into the next county -- particularly annoying when that brass is hard to get.
Funny thing that you should mention the cost. I think the same thing about the Witness Elite series of pistols. I guess we all see things differently.
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OK Thanks. I guess this means that you haven't tried the DPM systems recoil spring and guide.
I have had a couple of cracked slides on Witnesses (.40S&W -- small frame and 10mm Compact) so I tend to want to ease the slide to frame contact without having to use light loads.
I am 73 years old. My hands are not going to get any stronger. The main problem is racking the slide far enough back to allow the manual slide lock to operate -- the RSO sometimes wants to see that. The slide has a rather small area to grip.
Yeah I know all about throwing brass into the next county -- particularly annoying when that brass is hard to get.
Funny thing that you should mention the cost. I think the same thing about the Witness Elite series of pistols. I guess we all see things differently.
If I was you I'd do exactly as you did. Different people have different situation, preferences thus different justification for what they do.
I tried a Sprinco on the G20 before, after many tries of different main springs, I still got stove pipes and misfeeds. I think part of the equation was the hot loads. So I get the idea that aftermarket recoil systems can't conceivably be so complete to account for the level of hot loads I use. To spend over $100 on a spring system in the hope that it would work, may work, possibly work, to try out... is not an acceptable notion for me. For others, it'd be ok, not that there's anything wrong with doing it.
Fwiw, my Witness Elite Match 10mm was $700. I don't see that it's too expensive compared to a CZ or Glock with modifications. The only mods in the Witness was springs, which is the topic here.
After some research on the Witness 10mm, I found that slide cracking was occurring around 2008-2010 on the most economical models of Witness (Wonder finish, etc.) where there was less reenforcing metal around the slide, perhaps due to less metal used to trim carry weight. Reports of cracking ceased since then, which means either no more sales or mfgrs change made. No report of high grades of Witness that cracked... that I can find. My Witness gets to about 44 ounces, loaded.
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You got a great deal on your Elite (or else you bought it a long time ago).
FWIW, I have also worked up some hot loads and that's what I like to shoot -- same as you.
I managed to get my DPM setup for $85. Yeah, the price put me off for a time, but I finally "bit the bullet" so to say.
It seems to work for me and work better than the Sprinco unit I tried. Sprinco would have been fine if I had hands like a gorilla, but I don't. I just wondered if anyone else here had tried it.
I also shoot 9x23 Winchester out of a .38 Super Witness semi-compact and I have the same concerns about it because of the pressure level of that round being over 50,000 psi. BTW, that makes a great carry pistol if you don't mind the weight of 17 + 1 rounds of .357 Mag level ammo.
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Yes. That Witness was a good deal. Check gunbuyer.com and it's free shipping. So I asked the LGS to price match, rather than pay $50 FFL fee. They did, so with tax the out the door cost was $750'ish. It worked out the same, but they make the sale with a bit of margin rather than just the FFL fee.
Great pistol, especially with all the spring changes talked about here. Glad I sold G20 and G29.
Look for flat primers on your high loads. Back off about 0.4 gr from that, just to be safe. Also, I learn from the late SwampFox that the best way to test high loads is to fire with the magazine out. That way, if there's excess causing a breach, the force would travel down the magazine channel.
Be Safe !
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Good points. I'll keep them in mind. I also use Quickload software to get an approximate idea of the pressure level.
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SPRINGING A Witness Compact .40 S&W
New posting of my old problem:
I am new to the EEA Witness, CZ pistol as an owner, I have shot a CZ before.
I came here because of a problem I have with my new .40 all steel Wonderfinish EAA Witness Compact Semi Auto Pistol .40 S&W 3.6" Barrel 12 Rounds Rubber Grip Steel Wonder Finish 999098
It has a extra stiff slide. the original stock recoil spring is two springs, the standard and a captured spring. The slide is tight even without the spring and rod installed, more tight an inch or two from full open, so much that it is barely able to chamber a cartridge.
The pistol has never been shot. The slide recoil spring is to strong that the slide stop can't be applied. in addition to the slide being stiff the slide stop pin is VERY tight in the slide and barrel link I don't think the slide goes back far enough to lock. I have checked the rails on the slide and the frame, there is no burrs or rough spots. the slide is really tight in the area of the magazine well.
End of original post
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What I have done to date (August 20, 2016)
I ordered the Wolff Witness calibration recoil set and installed the 18# spring. The slide would NOT go back far enough to chamber a round nor would the manual slide latch lock the slide. I started cutting coils off the Wolff spring and did get the slide to latch open after cutting several coils off the spring (this is with the 18# only!) using the factory recoil rod).
After reading the entire recent Recoil Springing thread I decided the original factory two spring setup for this compact model EAA Witness.40 S&W is correct, so I removed the Wolff 18# spring and reinstalled the original 2 springs, and started trimming, I measured the space allowed for the collapsed recoil springs, it is TINY! After trimming 3 coils off each spring I am able to open the slide enough to latch the slide with the manual slide lock, with only 1/32th of an inch slack in the slide. The pistol has never been fired and that is for the next trip to the range.
I believe that the design of this pistol is a good one, however the factory assembly and the owners manual are need ing to be updated before the pistol is sent to a dealer for sale.
P.S. I have polished the slide, hammer and the frame and have worked the slide many times with a very weak 18 pound spring that I shortened to give a full slide travel, with my set of Arkansas stones and a needle file wrapped in a single layer of 400 grit 3M emory. the slide is still a bit stiff, it won't fall off with gravity, like my series 70 1911 will that has over 2000 rounds thru it, with just the silde on the frame.
I would like to hear any advice from some of you Witness compact .40 owners and critique my procedure, also do I need a different Recoil Spring rod, or other parts.?
PLEASE!
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Well, it sounds as though your Witness is "coil-binding" with standard springs. Obviously, that should never happen. So let's think about what could cause that. Obviously, incorrect springs can cause it. Wolff usually gets it right if you order the correct spring for the firearm you have. All Witness pistols are now made on the "large frame" Tanfoglio platform, but in years past they were made on the "small frame" Tanfoglio platform which is the same size as the CZ-75. A limited number of small frame Witnesses were imported in recent years as a special "classic" model. If you have a small frame Witness the spring(s) for a large frame Witness might be too long. If this is the case try a recoil spring for a CZ-75.
Disregard the last 2 sentences. I just got out the calipers and measured an older small frame Witness Compact .40 S&W and a 10mm Witness (which are all large frame) and they measure the same in the recoil spring area. So that idea is a bust.
All I can think of is that you forgot to make sure that you ordered springs for a Compact model and received springs for a full-size Witness.
Personally I am using the DPM "Recoil Reducer" kit as my guide rod and recoil spring in my 10mm and 9x23 Win. Witness Compacts as well as in my CZ-75 Compact and it works very well. It is somewhat costly and hard to find though.
As for the slide binding on the frame without the guide rod or spring installed, that is just poor quality control by the manufacturer. If there is no evidence that it has been worked on and you have the original parts, put it back to original and send it in for warrantee work. Otherwise you can lap those rails in with valve grinding compound (available at any good auto parts store). Put a light coat of the fine grit compound on the rails and work the slide back and forth a few times. Clean it off and check. When it slides properly, clean and oil it.
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The springs from Wolff were clearly marked EAA WitnessCOMPAC. They were not like the original springs on this pistol, it came with the two springs one inside the other. I was a rifle and pistol gunsmith for 30 years and never have I seen this kind of a SNFAU with a new in the factory box, the slide would not open far enough to chamber a round, and all of the information showed a single recoil spring (this pistol was built and sold in 2014).
I contacted the distributor and they wanted me to send the pistol to them to look at with a $25 check for the return shipping, and I said NO. The phone guy wouldn't let me talk to a tech.
The slide binding on the slide is fixed, there was just too much spring for the available space. I may have to cut some more coils off, but I do have a whole hand full of Wolff springs from 18# to 24#, and a good pair of side cutters, and head and eye protection and a pair of Kevlar gloves. The first shot will be with the magazine removed.
I appreciate your reply but do you have a newer Satin finish Wittness compac .40 S&W that came with two recoil springs?
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This is a picture of Mrmackc's EAA Witness catalog pic"
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1180/4341552/24672453/412734567.jpg)
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No, the only .40 I own is the small frame Witness Compact. It came with a single recoil spring
My 10mm came with dual recoil springs.
Sounds very frustrating.
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Bob, Thanks for the interest, and the large frame Witness (your 10 mm) has the dual springs, and it is working fine? If you know or get a chance let me know how long the dual springs are on the 10 mm and the number of coils each has. I will measure the ones on my pistol, and post that info.
I intend to take some pictures of the recoil system soon and post them so the Witness But now that I have the springs cut to a length that will allow the slide to go back to latch the slide with the manual slide stop, and the slide works smoothly. when the slide latch is released the slide goes into battery with a lot of force and the recoil springs do have a goodly amount of tension on the slide to hold it closed with the barrel well locked, It still takes a lot of pulling to cock the hammer unless I cock it first, The hammer in full cock is pushed down more past full cock. I suppose that is necessary in order for the hammer to engage the sear. Next is a trip to the range. We lost our local indoor range and I now have to drive 40 miles to the next one. It is run by an old jerk that is even more grouchy and older than me, I'm 79.
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The factory outer spring for my 10mm Compact measures 5.15" long at rest and has 23 coils. Wire diameter is 0.0315". Spring outer diameter is 0.3955".
The factory inner spring measures 3.54" long and also has 23 coils. Wire diameter is also 0.0315". Spring outer diameter is 0.3245".
The pistol worked fine with these springs, but I changed them to get more protection against slide to frame hammering.
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Great service Bob, Thanks a Brazillion! (how ever much a Brazillion is)
These numbers compare favorable to my .40 S&W Witness compac. your springs are close to 1/4 inch shorter than mine are after cutting off 4.5 coils from each spring. If need be I think I can cut them back to 23 coils without causing a problem.
The 10 mm is a bit more stout a round as far as I can determine, again, THANKS!
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Glad I could help. Yes, the 10mm is significantly stouter than the .40 S&W. I get a 135 gr. JHP moving out at 1600 fps at 10 feet from the muzzle of my compact. That's about 700 ft.-lbs. For some reason it sounds like you got sent the wrong spring set. Wolff should send you the correct one.
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I looked up some info on differences in 10 mm and.40 S&W the Federal tables show muzzle velocith for 180gr. Federal MV to be 1030 for 10mm and 1000 for .40 Federal didn't show muzzle energy
I intend to check Woolf's web page for more spring kits. Thanks again
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A lot of factory loads for the 10mm are downloaded. The original Norma spec. for the 10mm was a 200 gr. bullet at 1200 fps. That was a bit optimistic, but not much.
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Wolff does not sell a Dual recoil spring set for a Witness compac pistol.
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That's true. They sell -- or at least they used to sell -- a single spring for the Witness Compact. I used this at one time and it worked OK. I tried 18-20 lb. springs. That's one of the reasons I am using the DPM unit now.
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I got a set of springs from Wolff and tried the 18# single spring. It needed some sort of bushing to take up the slack from the space used by the inner spring on the action spring rod, as the single spring was too large in diameter for the dual spring rod.
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I got a set of springs from Wolff and tried the 18# single spring. It needed some sort of bushing to take up the slack from the space used by the inner spring on the action spring rod, as the single spring was too large in diameter for the dual spring rod.
Measure the diameter of your Recoil Spring Guide Rod and call Wolf for the correct or most similar spring that can be adapted.
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I got a set of springs from Wolff and tried the 18# single spring. It needed some sort of bushing to take up the slack from the space used by the inner spring on the action spring rod, as the single spring was too large in diameter for the dual spring rod.
Measure the diameter of your Recoil Spring Guide Rod and call Wolf for the correct or most similar spring that can be adapted.
That should not be a problem. The guide rods for the dual springs and the single springs are the same. It doesn't need to be a close fit diametrically.
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OK, just seemed to be a misfit, compared to how the Colt 1911 series 70 recoil spring fits.
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Just want to say I am a proud new owner of a Stock 3 Elite in .45 ACP. This thread has been an amazing tool for my upgrades. There is so little information out there specific to the.45 variant. This thread really answered many of the questions I had where the solution used for a 9mm just won't work for the 45 version.
Thanks
Bill
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Back from the abyss
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Here to resurrect a zombie thread. I have a 10mm full and compact witnesses, both full steel wonderfinish, the compact is dated 2002, the full size 2003.
I had bought 22# wolf recoil spring kits and stiffer hammer springs (thankfully I still have all the packaging for the springs). I also had bought .40 barrels for both. I may have also bought a pair of mag springs...no packaging though.
The full sized? Runs reliably with 10mm with 22# spring and new firing pin spring. I don't really feed the need to run the 40 barrel. I don't recall this having a recoil buffer.
The compact? I had left a 40 barrel in it. It's not very reliable, lots of feeding issues. I honestly can't tell which spring is the wolff and which is factory. Also the recoil buffer is pretty much shot.
Today I received a pair of henning rods and a single recoil buffer from him. I hope the full sized still runs reliably with the new rod, I'll have to test it.
I think I'd be happy getting the compact running with the .40 barrel so I can use it for carry. Suggestion on what spring I should use with the henning? 16# ?
I think first I'll try it with the 10mm barrel back in and drop the mostly shredded factory buffer (it won't lock back with this buffer either).
Oh yeah here's an obligatory picture:
(http://i.imgur.com/avueyPd.jpg)
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The Compact guns can be a problem to make them reliable --- sometimes. Sometimes they just run without any particular special attention. Kind of like full-size 1911s and "chopped" 1911s (shorter than Commander-length barrels).
My own Witness Semi-Compact started out as a 10mm Wonder finish Compact. It was an early gun. I seem to recall buying it new in the 1990s. It never had any kind of a buffer from the factory. I did use a Shok-Buff designed for a CZ-75 for a while and it seemed to help prevent the slide from hammering the frame, but as you have observed, these buffers do not last long. I recently (in the last year or so) installed a "DPM Recoil Reducer" unit to accomplish the same goal. It works rather well with a variety of ammo. I am using one of the recoil springs that came with the DPM unit (along with the two captive springs that are a part of the unit). The main problem I have observed with just using a heavier recoil spring is that with the reduced gripping area that results from the slide-in-frame design, the slide can be very difficult to rack for those of us with old (or otherwise weak) hands with recoil springs of 22 lbs. and higher. The DPM unit seems to have dealt with this to a degree that works for me.
Don't know if any of this helps you or not, but please keep us informed -- even zombie threads need some love now and then. :o
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Because of how much 10mm beats these things up I'm resigned to making this work with the 40 barrel. It may be that I just need to get a weaker spring to make this reliable with 40. I figure it doesn't hurt to beat it up with a few mags of 10mm just to see if its reliable as is with those 10mm loads and work from there. I need to make a trip to lowes to grab a few thin brass washers and see which size will work. The henning washer is incredibly thick, and hopefully okay with my full sized frame.
Update (Jun 29): took both out to the range to shoot today along with a couple of other pistols. Used henning rod without a buffer and the 22# spring in the large frame. I had one single FTF on the large frame, the nose dove and jammed at round 9 (of 15). I guess an issue with a dirty mag I should clean and lube.
The smaller one? I put in the henning without a buffer. The 7th round of 10mm blew the mag floor plate...the case ruptured. Looking at the fired rounds all the primer strikes before were off center. Switched barrel back to .40, ran 3 mags of 40 without any problems with the remaining mag.
Now where to find a mag base plate??
Update (Jul 2): stole a mag base plate from one of my full size mags, shot it today. The compact has run 100 rds of winchester ,40 with the henning, 22# spring and a #10s (or was that #14s?) dremmeled brass washer from Home Depot without problems. Just inspected the brass washer and its almost toast already, wow.
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Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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I have 2.
#1 is a Witness Compact Stainless in 45 ACP, bought used. I have put 300 rounds thru it, no mods as far as I know.
#2 is a Witness P S in 9mm. Bought new. I have put 300 rounds thru it then added a +2 pound recoil spring in it because my reloads (very warm) were a little much for OEM. I have put an additional 500 rounds thru it. The first 100 there was a problem with ejection of medium reloads then it straightened out and no problems since.
This pistol is the most accurate non 1911 I have and on equal with my CZ P-07s, 75Bs.
Both Witness pistols have had nothing but reloads (mine) fired in them since I have owned them.
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The Compact guns can be a problem to make them reliable --- sometimes. Sometimes they just run without any particular special attention. Kind of like full-size 1911s and "chopped" 1911s (shorter than Commander-length barrels).
My own Witness Semi-Compact started out as a 10mm Wonder finish Compact. It was an early gun. I seem to recall buying it new in the 1990s. It never had any kind of a buffer from the factory. I did use a Shok-Buff designed for a CZ-75 for a while and it seemed to help prevent the slide from hammering the frame, but as you have observed, these buffers do not last long. I recently (in the last year or so) installed a "DPM Recoil Reducer" unit to accomplish the same goal. It works rather well with a variety of ammo. I am using one of the recoil springs that came with the DPM unit (along with the two captive springs that are a part of the unit). The main problem I have observed with just using a heavier recoil spring is that with the reduced gripping area that results from the slide-in-frame design, the slide can be very difficult to rack for those of us with old (or otherwise weak) hands with recoil springs of 22 lbs. and higher. The DPM unit seems to have dealt with this to a degree that works for me.
Don't know if any of this helps you or not, but please keep us informed -- even zombie threads need some love now and then. :o
Bob, I have been away from doing any shooting for a good spell and I have a question about where I can purchase a DPM recoil reduction system for my EAA Witness.40 S&W Compact pistol that was bought new in 2015 it came with the spring inside a spring recoil spring and out of the box would not chamber a round or even lock the slide. I cut coils off the springs. But don't like the action and desire to try the DPM recoil reduction unit.
Anyone that knows where I can buy one please post any information you have,thanks
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I cut coils off the springs. But don't like the action and desire to try the DPM recoil reduction unit.
Anyone that knows where I can buy one please post any information you have,thanks
Have not seen a DPM System made for your particular Pistol, but one of the units made for the Jericho Cz Clones may fit.
You can contact DPM directly here: https://dpmsystems.com/
You might also look into a Sprinco Recoil Reducer System: http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html
I use a Sprinco Recoil Reducer in my Witness .45 Super Conversion.
I have the DPM Recoil Reduction Systems on order directly from DPM (Israel) coming for my Steyr L9A1 and S&W SW9VE.
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Thanks, I found one, maybe it is right ,I'm new to these pistols, it is at the link you gave.
Tanfoglio EAA Witness Carry Force,99 Pro-Police Compact (all calibers).
This must be right one. Don't you think?
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Thanks, I found one, maybe it is right ,I'm new to these pistols, it is at the link you gave.
Tanfoglio EAA Witness Carry Force,99 Pro-Police Compact (all calibers).
This must be right one. Don't you think?
Yes, that should fix you up! Please post again in a separate thread how it works for you. :)
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Yes, I shall, but I did get the idea from this thread posted by Bob C.
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After I posted this last reply I checked out the Sprinco USA page and since it is only about 100 miles from me in Austin Texas, rather than in Greece I will probably go with them for a recoil reduction unit for my Witness.40 Compact. They list one for a Witness 10mm, so I will call before ordering.
UpDate: 02/03/18 I emailed SprinCo USA asking if they have a reduction unit for my.40 compact Witness as they only list one for the 10mms . He emailed me back that he and their shop is suffering from the flu and will get back with me after the crisis ends. so I am marking time.
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Just ordered a 10mm Standard (full-size) conversion kit for my Witness Match, as this was the only 10mm conversion kit they had in stock. I also plan on using a 40SW barrel in this 10mm slide, as well as a 9mm, on occasion.
I am confused as to what I have stock from EAA spring-wise, and what I might need. I would not have purchased a 10mm pistol/slide unless I wanted to fire full power loads with it.
I plan to use Sig and Fiocchi ammo, both coming in at 1250 fps and 624 ft-lbs. Any ideas?
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Stock spring is usually somewhat too light for full-power loads. I would suggest Wolff's calibration pack. Use the heaviest spring first and if your loads cycle OK that is the one to use. A spring that is too light can result in frame-to-slide battering. On my own Tanfoglios I use the DPM Recoil Reducer which stops frame-to-slide battering very well.
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It has been a while, my Witness Steel compack .40 SW was sent from the factory with the wrong recoil springs, a captured coil inside another coil, that when compressed all the way still lacked enough rearward movment to even lock the slide lock or chamber a .40 round. I started cutting untill I could barely lock the slide, with much too much effort. I had contacted Wolfe, they didn't have any captured springs for the compact .40, Then I contacted Sprinco, after checking for one of their recoil reduction kits, no .40 compact, but they did have a 10MM that maybe I could make work.
I finally was able to contact EAA in Cocoa Fl. the man on their chat box said I would need to send then al the info, if I didn't want to send in the pistol with $20 for them to check it out, if I emailed them all the info on the pistol ,mainly the serial number he would make sure I got the right spring for $5.00 and $10.00 shipping and handleing, so I did. Yesterday I received a new EAA spring, it is a single spring, I installed it without any problem and it seems okay, I will range test it when I get a chance, hope it works, I really like the looks and feel of this pistol, I got at a reasonable price, new in the box.