How to properly "SPRING" a EAA Witness

[Dino_]

OK. That's good to know cause I'm picking up one this Saturday.  Any issues to look for with this model.  Whats a good belt holster or maybe concealed?

What about the EAA compact steel wonderfinish 10mm, is it undersprung from the factory or is it also good to go?  I have one on the way and I was wondering if and I should order some heavier springs.

[jwc007]

What about the EAA compact steel wonderfinish 10mm, is it undersprung from the factory or is it also good to go?  I have one on the way and I was wondering if and I should order some heavier springs.

Don't know exactly, but I would expect it to be sprung for the regular factory 10mm/.40 S&W power level loadings and would play with heavier spring rates for full power 10mm loads.  I would order a Wolff Spring Calibration pack and experiment with the loads you plan to use.

[Dino_]

Thank you very much, I'm waiting on a Witness compact steel 10mm that should be here next week. I'll make sure to let you guys no how appropriate the factory spring/springs are.

[xythin]

Hey all, sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread but I've got a question about this (also sorry for the wall of text).

In October I purchased an EAA witness compact steel frame in 10mm. I love it, but the more I read about it online the more it seemed like the older models had a serious issue with an under-powered recoil spring and I couldn't find anything that specifically stated whether or not it had been fixed in newer models. So I purchased a 22lb Wolff recoil spring and was planning on buying the Sprinco Recoil system for it too (that fancy guide rod).

So today I get the spring, pull apart the pistol and for the first time remove the barrel and guide rod. First thing I notice is the guide rod has dual nesting recoil springs a small diameter short one right on the rod and a bigger longer one that goes over the top of the rod and smaller spring.

Second thing I notice is the manual says there should be something in the dust shroud that helps hold the spring. Nothing but spring came out for me, I looked inside with a flashlight - just metal, so to make sure it didn't pop out without me noticing I scoured the area around me didn't find any stray bits of anything lying around.

So I say screw it and put the single spring in anyway. It was extremely hard to compress it enough but I muscled through and got it together. Lo and behold the slide no longer goes back fully, and what little bit it does go back is.. difficult. Then I remembered a conversation I had with a sprinco rep through Emails when I asked if I should use their system and a wolff spring and dug it up,

"Does your Compact have a single recoil spring or dual nesting recoil springs? Recent production dual spring polymer Compact models have changed dimensionally, which disallows the use of single strand recoil springs from Wolff that are required to be used in conjunction with our system. The original Compact models utilized a single wire spring, and the original dual spring models would accept the single strand springs as well. With the dimensions in the current product dual spring Compacts, (at least the polymer versions), the spring tunnel is shorter and the single strand springs go solid (into coil bind) prior to full slide retraction, and the rounds cannot not eject because of the reduced slide travel. I do not know if the current production steel frame versions retain the original dimensions or not."


So, looks like new production steel witness compacts cant accept wolff recoil springs. Anyone familiar with this or maybe shed some light on something I missed?

[jwc007]

From what I can tell from your writings, the single 22 lb recoil spring over the standard guide rod, is too long to allow the Slide full travel. It will need to be trimmed till the Slide can achieve full travel.

If you are going to use a Sprinco Recoil Reducer Guide Rod, I recommend using a 16 to 18 lb Recoil Spring, trimmed to just allow full Slide Travel. The proper length of Spring is critical, so as to make the secondary Heavy Buffer Spring engage.

The newer Factory Dual Recoil Spring setup works much better than the old Single Spring, which was only18 lbs in the Compact.

You'll have to play around with it a bit to get what you want, but it will be worth it!

[xythin]

Thanks for the quick response, and that's exactly right.

So I'm still pretty new to all this, but is it normal to have to trim down a recoil spring or is it just because I have the compact?

[jwc007]

So I'm still pretty new to all this, but is it normal to have to trim down a recoil spring or is it just because I have the compact?

The Compact Springs seem to need it more than the Full Size Pistols.

[IronArcher]

So I was talking with Hennings, and they suggested for my Elite Limited Pro, going to an 8# or even 6# recoil spring.
Reading the rest of this thread, that sounds VERY light.
What are you guys using in 9mm with practice ammo (say 115gn @ 1200fps)?

[IronArcher]

Update: talking with Ben Stoeger, he recommends a 10# spring.

[jwc007]

So I was talking with Hennings, and they suggested for my Elite Limited Pro, going to an 8# or even 6# recoil spring.
Reading the rest of this thread, that sounds VERY light.
What are you guys using in 9mm with practice ammo (say 115gn @ 1200fps)?

Update: talking with Ben Stoeger, he recommends a 10# spring.

The standard recoil spring for a full size Tanfoglio Witness runs about 14/15 lbs or so.

Standard 9mm generic 115 grain FMJ runs 1160 fps or so.
Generic 9mm 124 grain FMJ runs about 1130 fps or so.

Match 9mm 124 grain loads run 1050 fps.

[Goldbead]

I approach the spring idea a little differently. I modify the upper and I never go above 18lbs spring in 10mm

When the 18lbs spring is fully compressed (goes "solid" in parlance) it does so 0.25 of an inch within the spring tunnel.

As the lower part of the spring tunnel is a near guillotine, I remove 0.20 from the spring tunnel at the back. This gives me some "extra" space to set my Hennings guide rod (which moves the spring forward a little and allows me to use a Hennings "dead hammer" brass shock buff.

The result is that I have perfect ejection and lockback, the gun now has a flatter face on the spring tunnel to strike the frame and/or the shock buff (which resists cracking and the slide actually has more of a throw distance to compress the spring.

I would post pictures, but I am a newbie.

[xythin]

That sounds very interesting. I left my dual nesting recoil springs and just wrote the heavier Wolff spring off as a loss (was only 7 dollars). I've only shot a few hundred rounds of underwoods full power stuff but the Witness has been loving it so far. I could still stun a small child at 20 paces with the ejected shells but I'm just calling that my tactical rear defense plan.


You should definitely post some pictures of that though, If you haven't figured out how to do that yet you basically just upload your pictures onto a file sharing site like imgur.com then click the little mona lisa above the yellow faces and below the big B. That will create IMG tags that you copy your pictures link between.

[jwc007]

I would post pictures, but I am a newbie.

Nobody seems to read our FAQ's, sadly!
Very simple really.

1) Get a Pic Host account such as Imageshack, Photobucket, or Hunt101.com, the latter which I use.
2) Upload your Pics to your Pic Host Gallery
3) Copy ( keyboard - Ctrl+c ) the Forum Pic Link you get from Your host
4) Paste ( keyboard - Ctrl+v ) the Forum Pic Link into Your post
5) Click on "Save" when done editing

Of course the trick with Photobucket is to just click the "IMG" code, which automatically copies the pic link to your Computer, and all you have to do is Paste ( keyboard Ctrl + v ) into your post.

[10mikemike]

Here is my spring related 2 cents thus far. On my 10mm Witness Match, I installed the Hennings Basic kit with 18# recoil spring, firing pin w/spring, reduced power trigger plunger spring and reduced power hammer spring. Works great! Function and ignition is 100%, even with low powered HSM 1150FPS ammo. Before installing the kit, the factory recoil spring was significantly deformed after only 400 rounds.

Next up is the CZ75 reduced power trigger return (torsion) spring from CGW. I will be trying this spring soon and if it works well, hopefully the new CGW trigger pin as well.

https://cajungunworks.com/product/rp-trs-reduced-power-trigger-return-spring/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/tr-pin-cgws-exclusive-floating-trigger-pin/

[EAG8999]

Okay, so I trying to get everything sorted here so any help is greatly appreciated. I've got a Sar K2-45 that I am trying to shoot .45 Super out of. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was thinking that a 22b recoil spring and possibly a stepped up hammer spring would get the job done. I don't have the money for one of those recoil reducers, unfortunately. Does anybody know which particular recoil and hammer springs I need? Here is Wolff's site: https://www.gunsprings.com/mID19/dID100