How to properly "SPRING" a EAA Witness

[bnolsen]

Here to resurrect a zombie thread.  I have a 10mm full and compact witnesses, both full steel wonderfinish, the compact is dated 2002, the full size 2003.

I had bought 22# wolf recoil spring kits and stiffer hammer springs (thankfully I still have all the packaging for the springs).  I also had bought .40 barrels for both.  I may have also bought a pair of mag springs...no packaging though.

The full sized?  Runs reliably with 10mm with 22# spring and new firing pin spring.  I don't really feed the need to run the 40 barrel.  I don't recall this having a recoil buffer.

The compact?  I had left a 40 barrel in it.  It's not very reliable, lots of feeding issues.  I honestly can't tell which spring is the wolff and which is factory.  Also the recoil buffer is pretty much shot.

Today I received a pair of henning rods and a single recoil buffer from him.  I hope the full sized still runs reliably with the new rod, I'll have to test it.

I think I'd be happy getting the compact running with the .40 barrel so I can use it for carry.  Suggestion on what spring I should use with the henning?  16# ?

I think first I'll try it with the 10mm barrel back in and drop the mostly shredded factory buffer (it won't lock back with this buffer either).

Oh yeah here's an obligatory picture:

[bobclevenger]

The Compact guns can be a problem to make them reliable --- sometimes. Sometimes they just run without any particular special attention. Kind of like full-size 1911s and "chopped" 1911s (shorter than Commander-length barrels).

My own Witness Semi-Compact started out as a 10mm Wonder finish Compact. It was an early gun. I seem to recall buying it new in the 1990s. It never had any kind of a buffer from the factory. I did use a Shok-Buff designed for a CZ-75 for a while and it seemed to help prevent the slide from hammering the frame, but as you have observed, these buffers do not last long. I recently (in the last year or so) installed a "DPM Recoil Reducer" unit to accomplish the same goal. It works rather well with a variety of ammo. I am using one of the recoil springs that came with the DPM unit (along with the two captive springs that are a part of the unit). The main problem I have observed with just using a heavier recoil spring is that with the reduced gripping area that results from the slide-in-frame design, the slide can be very difficult to rack for those of us with old (or otherwise weak) hands with recoil springs of 22 lbs. and higher. The DPM unit seems to have dealt with this to a degree that works for me.

Don't know if any of this helps you or not, but please keep us informed -- even zombie threads need some love now and then.

[bnolsen]

Because of how much 10mm beats these things up I'm resigned to making this work with the 40 barrel.  It may be that I just need to get a weaker spring to make this reliable with 40.  I figure it doesn't hurt to beat it up with a few mags of 10mm just to see if its reliable as is with those 10mm loads and work from there.  I need to make a trip to lowes to grab a few thin brass washers and see which size will work.  The henning washer is incredibly thick, and hopefully okay with my full sized frame.

Update (Jun 29): took both out to the range to shoot today along with a couple of other pistols.  Used henning rod without a buffer and the 22# spring in the large frame.  I had one single FTF on the large frame, the nose dove and jammed at round 9 (of 15).  I guess an issue with a dirty mag I should clean and lube.

The smaller one?  I put in the henning without a buffer.  The 7th round of 10mm blew the mag floor plate...the case ruptured.  Looking at the fired rounds all the primer strikes before were off center.  Switched barrel back to .40, ran 3 mags of 40 without any problems with the remaining mag.

Now where to find a mag base plate??

Update (Jul 2): stole a mag base plate from one of my full size mags, shot it today.  The compact has run 100 rds of winchester ,40 with the henning, 22# spring and a #10s (or was that #14s?) dremmeled brass washer from Home Depot without problems.  Just inspected the brass washer and its almost toast already, wow.

[SerenityNetworks]

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[DWARREN]

I have 2.

#1 is a Witness Compact Stainless in 45 ACP, bought used. I have put 300 rounds thru it, no mods as far as I know.

#2 is a Witness P S in 9mm. Bought new. I have put 300 rounds thru it then added a +2 pound recoil spring in it because my reloads (very warm) were a little much for OEM. I have put an additional 500 rounds thru it. The first 100 there was a problem with ejection of medium reloads then it straightened out and no problems since.
This pistol is the most accurate non 1911 I have and on equal with my CZ P-07s, 75Bs.

Both Witness pistols have had nothing but reloads (mine) fired in them since I have owned them.

[mrmackc]

The Compact guns can be a problem to make them reliable --- sometimes. Sometimes they just run without any particular special attention. Kind of like full-size 1911s and "chopped" 1911s (shorter than Commander-length barrels).

My own Witness Semi-Compact started out as a 10mm Wonder finish Compact. It was an early gun. I seem to recall buying it new in the 1990s. It never had any kind of a buffer from the factory. I did use a Shok-Buff designed for a CZ-75 for a while and it seemed to help prevent the slide from hammering the frame, but as you have observed, these buffers do not last long. I recently (in the last year or so) installed a "DPM Recoil Reducer" unit to accomplish the same goal. It works rather well with a variety of ammo. I am using one of the recoil springs that came with the DPM unit (along with the two captive springs that are a part of the unit). The main problem I have observed with just using a heavier recoil spring is that with the reduced gripping area that results from the slide-in-frame design, the slide can be very difficult to rack for those of us with old (or otherwise weak) hands with recoil springs of 22 lbs. and higher. The DPM unit seems to have dealt with this to a degree that works for me.

Don't know if any of this helps you or not, but please keep us informed -- even zombie threads need some love now and then.

Bob, I have been away from doing any shooting for a good spell and I have a question about where I can purchase a DPM recoil reduction system for my EAA Witness.40 S&W Compact pistol that was bought new in 2015 it came with the spring inside a spring recoil spring and out of the box would not chamber a round or even lock the slide. I cut coils off the springs. But don't like the action and desire to try the DPM recoil reduction unit.
Anyone that knows where I can buy one please post any information you have,thanks

[jwc007]

I cut coils off the springs. But don't like the action and desire to try the DPM recoil reduction unit.
Anyone that knows where I can buy one please post any information you have,thanks

Have not seen a DPM System made for your particular Pistol, but one of the units made for the Jericho Cz Clones may fit.
You can contact DPM directly here:  https://dpmsystems.com/

You might also look into a Sprinco Recoil Reducer System: http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html
I use a Sprinco Recoil Reducer in my Witness .45 Super Conversion.

I have the DPM Recoil Reduction Systems on order directly from DPM (Israel) coming for my Steyr L9A1 and S&W SW9VE.

[mrmackc]

Thanks, I found one, maybe it is right ,I'm new to these pistols, it is at the link you gave.
Tanfoglio EAA Witness Carry Force,99 Pro-Police Compact (all calibers).
This must be right one. Don't you think?

[jwc007]

Thanks, I found one, maybe it is right ,I'm new to these pistols, it is at the link you gave.
Tanfoglio EAA Witness Carry Force,99 Pro-Police Compact (all calibers).
This must be right one. Don't you think?

Yes, that should fix you up!  Please post again in a separate thread how it works for you. 

[mrmackc]

Yes, I shall, but I did get the idea from this thread posted by Bob C.

[mrmackc]

After I posted this last reply I checked out the Sprinco USA page and since it is only about 100 miles from me in Austin Texas, rather than in Greece I will probably go with them for a recoil reduction unit for my Witness.40 Compact. They list one for a Witness 10mm, so I will call before ordering.

UpDate: 02/03/18  I emailed SprinCo USA asking if they have a reduction unit for my.40 compact Witness as they only list one for the 10mms . He emailed me back that he and their shop is suffering from the flu and will get back with me after the crisis ends. so I am marking time.

[Rorge Retson]

Just ordered a 10mm Standard (full-size) conversion kit for my Witness Match, as this was the only 10mm conversion kit they had in stock.  I also plan on using a 40SW barrel in this 10mm slide, as well as a 9mm, on occasion.

I am confused as to what I have stock from EAA spring-wise, and what I might need.  I would not have purchased a 10mm pistol/slide unless I wanted to fire full power loads with it. 

I plan to use Sig and Fiocchi ammo, both coming in at 1250 fps and 624 ft-lbs.  Any ideas?

[bobclevenger]

Stock spring is usually somewhat too light for full-power loads. I would suggest Wolff's calibration pack. Use the heaviest spring first and if your loads cycle OK that is the one to use. A spring that is too light can result in frame-to-slide battering. On my own Tanfoglios I use the DPM Recoil Reducer which stops frame-to-slide battering very well.

[mrmackc]

It has been a while, my Witness Steel compack .40 SW was sent from the factory with the wrong recoil springs, a captured coil inside another coil, that when compressed all the way still lacked enough rearward movment to even lock the slide lock or chamber a .40 round. I started cutting untill I could barely lock the slide, with much too much effort.  I had contacted Wolfe, they didn't have any captured springs for the compact .40, Then I contacted Sprinco, after checking for one of their recoil reduction kits, no .40 compact, but they did have a 10MM that maybe I could make work.
I finally was able to contact EAA in Cocoa Fl. the man on their chat box said I would need to send then al the info, if I didn't want to send in the pistol with $20 for them to check it out, if I emailed them all the info on the pistol ,mainly the serial number he would make sure I got the right spring for $5.00 and $10.00 shipping and handleing, so I did.  Yesterday I received a new EAA spring, it is a single spring,  I installed it without any problem and it seems okay, I will range test it when I get a chance, hope it works, I really like the looks and feel of this pistol, I got at a reasonable price, new in the box.