The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: plumber4444 on July 23, 2014, 05:50:59 PM
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Just got my CZ Compact. Love it. Love the "feel" of it much better than the P01. It DOES in fact fit my short, chubby hand and fingers better, if for ANY reason, the trigger is much less pointy, which makes it easier to shoot. It will be my daily carry gun.
Now, with that said, if a crisis happens, a SHTF big time break down, all out war kind of thing, I am going to have a choice as to which gun I will carry personally. I know, I know, everyone is going to say whichever gun YOU shoot better with. Now let's overlook that for the moment. Let's assume I can shoot them ALL equally well, which I can and do. Which should I choose based solely on likeliness to fail?
We are talking about my options being a CZ75B, CZ75 Compact or CZ P01. I bought the P01 based on the NATO rating alone. It WAS very impressive after all, you have to admit. Still, was any of my other CZ guns ever subjected to such torture? That I do not know, they may have passed as well. And the P01 WAS based off of the already famous CZ75.
But back to my question, if I had to grab ONE gun and go, all things being equal to shooting them all with the same proficiency, which one is more likely not to jam, break, bust or go bump in the night???
I am leaning towards the P01. But with that said, I honestly do not know. I am not talking preferences here, just pure, 100% unadulterated mechanics ONLY. Which one will not fail me for many, many moons?
Thanks ahead of time. In all fairness, I am posting this in the CZ compact forum also.
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I have a P-01 and an SP-01 Shadow and I don't know which I would grab. If I thought weight was going to be an issue I'd take the P-01,,,, if not I'd grab the SP-01.
I don't give it a lot of thought though.
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you ever heard of Murphy?
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This reason alone has prevented me from buying another CZ clone. In the "Zombie Apocalypse" ;D (I'm joking...or am I?), you'll have a tougher time finding parts for a more rare pistol. That being said, the CZ 75 would probably have most parts, holsters, and accessories to support you on the road (especially since you can use some Beretta holsters).
As far as shooting/features.... Each one has a case.
CZ 75 - being a full size it'll have the lowest recoil, longer barrel "should" mean more accurate, more aftermarket or scavenging support
CZ Compact - concealable, steel frame should hold up to abuse, most internals can be switched with a 75 B
CZ P-01 - lightest of the group, light rail for those "Zombies" waiting in the dark.
Back to the mechanics part the 75 and P-01 were used for military and police purposes. They should hold up quite well. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three.
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Haha, I'll be REALLY brave and admit that I'd be 60%/40% grabbing my Glock 17 over either my CZ 75 Omega or PCR. It's lighter, parts will be more plentiful, I can run it dry more reliably (which is important because I live in the desert. Sand+properly lubed CZ+long carrying time between cleaning=greater possibility of a gunked up gun), and it has a light rail. I shoot my CZ Omega the best, but not enough to outweigh the pros of the Glock 17.
But like I said, I'd only slightly favor the Glock. In the heat of the moment, if I chose either the Omega or the PCR I wouldn't feel undergunned.
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Now, with that said, if a crisis happens, a SHTF big time break down, all out war kind of thing
The SPO1 due to mag. capacity, stability and "weight as another weapon". Optionally, with 23rds/mag using the CZC short extended mag option, and it's reliable.
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you ever heard of Murphy?
That's funny... And you are PROBABLY the most accurate!!!! Whichever I grab, will indeed, be the one that breaks I promise you.... LOL
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For mag capacity, I should add that ALL of my mags for the P01 and CZ75C are CZ75 16 rounds with the SP01 base pads. Fits my hand better and who doesn't want another 2 rounds??? No one I know of. All told Ihave 17. So I am not THAT worried about an extra round or two, I always keep plentiful extra mags where ever I go.
Plus ext mags can be used in all of them. But it's a trade off. The CZ75 full size has been around for ever and is true, battle tested. The P01 is the newbie, with mucho impressive specs, but not much real time data coming back in that I have read anywhere.
So best point made to date, other then Murphy :) was parts being available. Excellent point made and a GREAT reason to stick with the CZ75. In reality, if I can find the parts, it'll probably come another CZ gun owner in the form of being taking by the hand of a deceased person, mine included, so may not matter much at that point!!
But as I think about it, a full size DOES give longer distance shots....another vote for the full size, as that MAY be VERY important if I am shooting 100 yards away..
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You asked. I answered.
P.S. the mags hold 19 rds. ;)
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If the SHTF happens, I feel comfortable in grabbing any of my CZs.
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First let me offer my condolences on the loss of one your hands. Must be an awful handicap. ::)
Personally, in a crisis, I will be grabbing 2 guns, since I have two hands, and sticking an alloy frame PCR at the small of my back IWB for a left hand draw and a full size 75b on my hip OWB. Nothing says "don't mess with me" like a fullsize gun out where everyone can see it! Well except for a shotgun! ;)
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If the SHTF happens, I feel comfortable in grabbing any of my CZs.
+1 Mr. Jones.
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So that's 2 for the full size and the rest for "any". I'm counting... with one hand!
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Compact with 16rnds mags.
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AZ_CZ +1
High cap reach out and touch someone full size Pistol + Backup carry + Shotgun for shock and awe.
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I'm grabbin' the B and the P-01 ? if I gotta ditch weight it's the B that gets left behind ? the extra mags come along.
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Just got my CZ Compact. Love it. Love the "feel" of it much better than the P01. It DOES in fact fit my short, chubby hand and fingers better, if for ANY reason, the trigger is much less pointy, which makes it easier to shoot. It will be my daily carry gun.
You should look at changing out your recurve trigger for another trigger. Might change your mind on the P-01.
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I would think they all have the same amount of reliability.
I also would not over think this since how much are you going to be shooting it.
I would worry more about having enough ammo on hand.
Just my thoughts.
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Had my P-01 out at the range yesterday (Friday), and I find it dependable and extremely accurate. It's completely stock and I've not messed with springs, hammer, or trigger, and this pistol shoots small groups at 25 yards consistently. It's light and easy to handle. I'd bet my life on it.
P-09 is a bedside table gun in addition to IDPA insurance. I feel comfortable with both Ps, but the lightness and the pleasure of shooting the P-01 means that I'm including it in my range bag every time I go for a target session.
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+1 Fireman & others who said either should be reliable. I guess if I had to pick one over the other for reliability (which was your original question) it would be the P-01.
I also second TX_Southpaw's recommendation on getting a 85c trigger on your P-01. You will notice the difference I bet.
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I have a PCR as my primary EDC... and I am putting together plans now for an SP-01 Tactical that I will outfit with a Surefire X300 Ultra for home defense and bugout bag use. In a SHTF situation my thinking is to have one gun that is easy to conceal, and another with a light attached that I can carry under a coat or in a backpack.
My shotgun would serve my long gun needs because... that is the only long gun I have! :) If I get a rifle then it may trump the shotgun simply based on ammo capacity and quicker reloads... we'll see.
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Any of the three would likely have the same or similar reliability. Take one and bring as many mags as you can. But, any day of the week, in a nuclear ice age zombie apocalypse societal breakdown, a rifle would be better. IMO. :)
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+1 Fireman & others who said either should be reliable. I guess if I had to pick one over the other for reliability (which was your original question) it would be the P-01.
I also second TX_Southpaw's recommendation on getting a 85c trigger on your P-01. You will notice the difference I bet.
I would absolutely love to!!! But still a little confused on that issue, is this a do-it-yourself drop in kind of thing? Have done many trigger replacements on AR's, but not any work at all on the CZ other than cleaning. Can I just order this trigger and have it sent to me and do it on the kitchen table? Or is it gunsmith recommended?
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I have a PCR as my primary EDC... and I am putting together plans now for an SP-01 Tactical that I will outfit with a Surefire X300 Ultra for home defense and bugout bag use. In a SHTF situation my thinking is to have one gun that is easy to conceal, and another with a light attached that I can carry under a coat or in a backpack.
My shotgun would serve my long gun needs because... that is the only long gun I have! :) If I get a rifle then it may trump the shotgun simply based on ammo capacity and quicker reloads... we'll see.
I'd go with a Fenix PD32 flashlight. I love Fenix and have dozens of them. Doesn't get much brighter. Have the PD35 on all my AR's, but too big for handgun. Still, it's almost impossible to beat the PD 32. To me, that is the all-time best Flashlight ever made in the world. For size versus output, just cannot be beat for $55!!!!
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I would absolutely love to!!! But still a little confused on that issue, is this a do-it-yourself drop in kind of thing? Have done many trigger replacements on AR's, but not any work at all on the CZ other than cleaning. Can I just order this trigger and have it sent to me and do it on the kitchen table? Or is it gunsmith recommended?
You can do it if you look at some links that show step by step. As long as you get the sear cage in and out in one piece you're good to go. If not, be prepared to get frustrated for another 30 minutes.You must take your time and tell family members "no interruptions"
Also since this is your first time, take pictures with your phone since they will be close ups and you will see what it looks like before taking it apart so you have a reference to put it back together.
Call David and he will advise what you will need and give advise if you mess up.
While you"re at it replace the trigger return spring and the trigger pin. Once you replace the trigger pin with the CGW pin it will go back in and come out in the future with just as push.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=504172
http://czechpistols82792.yuku.com/topic/12605/t/Tutorial-for-Trigger-amp-Return-Spring-Replacement.html#.U9YgUWK9KK1
I just installed the short reach and short reset systems in my PCR yesterday. I replaced the disconnector, firing pin block lifter and the trigger(85 Combat with the two screws) now the PCR is fully Cajunized like my 75BD and P-09. Later this week I will replace the original trigger in my P-01 with the Combat trigger I took out of my PCR
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I'd go with a Fenix PD32 flashlight. I love Fenix and have dozens of them. Doesn't get much brighter. Have the PD35 on all my AR's, but too big for handgun. Still, it's almost impossible to beat the PD 32. To me, that is the all-time best Flashlight ever made in the world. For size versus output, just cannot be beat for $55!!!!
Lately I've been partial to Powertac flashlights for carry - the E5 puts out a whopping 950 lumens in the same form factor as other slim CR123x2 lights! I have an older 700 lumen model on my shotgun in a rail mount with pressure switch.
For a handgun-mounted light I've been leaning to the X300 Ultra since it does 500 lumens and there are holsters available for the SP-01 with light attached. I've owned an X300 in the past and, aside from being outpaced by other light offerings in lumen output, it was super reliable ... and on 10mm pistols to boot! :)
As a flashlight-geek-in-training I'll definitely check out the PD32 - thanks for the tip.
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AR-15 for 99% of whatever situations I come across. For the other 1%, there won't be any difference between a full size or compact pistol utilizing the same magazines.
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Yeah I couldn't grab just one, it wouldn't make sense.
Of course if I did and it had to be a sidearm the Shadow would go along for the ride.
But why stop there, I'm taking all the handguns my friends and...
The CZ452 is a must for small game, we are talking about a SHTF situation so that includes birds on the ground
The S&W AR15 TS is flawless, light and accurate, good for the widest range of tasks and can easily take hogs, deer and the occasional zombie
Shot guns for game birds on the wing and make sure you have slugs on hand for serious big game
I have plenty of others but the above would have to come, the others could stay behind if need be and I'd be ok with that.
The biggest issue that always seems to be overlooked in every zombie movie is the weight of the ammo, that stuffs a bear to haul around.
P.S. I'm not worried about zombie's I have a good grasp on how the human body works, that s#!+ isn't going to happen, gangs roving the streets looking for blood, sex and goodies, yeah that happens right now, right here, way more so in the third world, imagine it on a country wide scale in the good old USA... bring the guns gentlemen, bring all the guns!
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WHAT you bring is going to be determined by WHERE you are going and HOW you'll get there. :-\
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I would have a hard time believing anyone who told me a model stamped NATO would somehow be less prone to breakage than another of the same make. I could be wrong, but I suspect the models which are NATO approved are simply the models which were submitted to NATO for approval. What I know is that most of the internal parts are identical among the CZ 75 variants.
And as far as parts availability goes... I know we all love CZs, which is why we own CZs, but can anyone really argue parts for CZs are more available than say a Glock? or a 1911? Besides, the S would have to hitting the fan for a really long time for me to wear out a barrel on all ten of my CZs! O0
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Im taking my Ruger Mk II target for a long pistol, and 1000 rounds, :o the P01 works for a short one!
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Thanks fireman, that was some pretty darn good and wonderful material!!! Think I'm just going to go for it and see what happens.
Sonospark, don't be too concerned with lumens. Yes, don't get me wrong, it is a great starting point and a base to work off of. But there are so many factors other than lumens, it can be confusing. But don't think that more lumens necessarily equals more output equally. An example would be my PD 32 at 350, and my PD 35 at 850. 2 1/4 times more luminous, yet that only plays out to about 45% brighter!!! Get yourself a Fenix PD32 and never look back while pocketing a couple hundred dollars!! Until the PD35 came out, I had the 32 on absolutely all of my weapons, and even to this day, people are still absolutely amazed at how bright that light is.
Fireman, preparing to get VERY aggravated!!! I can tell you that 90% of my problems with the P1, is that dang trigger. If I could get a straight one I would :) in other words, I think it will be well worth the aggravation when finished. As long as I don't need any specialty tools, other then, I am assuming roll pin punches and stuff like that, I'm good to go.
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You will also need pin punches with flat tips in 3/32 & 1/8 as well as the starter punch David sells.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/punches/1-16-1-6mm-4-10-2cm-long-sku587475062-8856-21958.aspx?sku=587475062
The pins in the hammer assembly and the trigger pin have to be hammered out.
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Sonospark, don't be too concerned with lumens. Yes, don't get me wrong, it is a great starting point and a base to work off of. But there are so many factors other than lumens, it can be confusing. But don't think that more lumens necessarily equals more output equally. An example would be my PD 32 at 350, and my PD 35 at 850. 2 1/4 times more luminous, yet that only plays out to about 45% brighter!!! Get yourself a Fenix PD32 and never look back while pocketing a couple hundred dollars!! Until the PD35 came out, I had the 32 on absolutely all of my weapons, and even to this day, people are still absolutely amazed at how bright that light is.
Good point - it isn't all about the numbers... I noticed a big difference, though, stepping up to the higher output lights over, say, my Surefire G2. I usually run my lights on the medium setting (~400 lumens) and that is a good, general setting for me. It is nice to be able to get more out of it, though... really light up the night, so to speak, especially with a long throw outdoors. That old G2 has been long since relegated to standby duty LOL
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WHAT you bring is going to be determined by WHERE you are going and HOW you'll get there. :-\
I totally agree and envy our hard working farmers that will have a big leg up on the rest of us. A tight knit farm community could dig in and stand together to defend what they have worked so hard for, unless of course the government decides they need to confiscate their crops "for the greater good". On second thought we're all screwed ;D
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2nd thoughts ?. The one that 'feels' right probably is the one that IS right for you - given that all the options you mention are CZs and all are reliable. That being said ? the one that won't fail you is the one you leave behind. Plan for failure. Have some extra parts. Learn how to replace parts. If mayhem broke out in town and you had to leave, take them all and as much ammo as you have and cache the surplus in 5 gallon pails perhaps already buried within reach of a tank of gas along with a water filter, some power bars, an extra knife, cordage, an extra pair of glasses if you wear them, first aid and pain killer for that tooth you put off having crowned, fresh socks, a light weight gortex jacket a flashlight and some bics. Unless its winter and you need shelter ? water is your primary concern in a survival situation. Have a plan. There are so many other considerations in a survival situation than which CZ do I take. Consider yourself lucky to have any of them along for the ride.
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Just got my CZ Compact. Love it. Love the "feel" of it much better than the P01. It DOES in fact fit my short, chubby hand and fingers better, if for ANY reason, the trigger is much less pointy, which makes it easier to shoot. It will be my daily carry gun.
Now, with that said, if a crisis happens, a SHTF big time break down, all out war kind of thing, I am going to have a choice as to which gun I will carry personally. I know, I know, everyone is going to say whichever gun YOU shoot better with. Now let's overlook that for the moment. Let's assume I can shoot them ALL equally well, which I can and do. Which should I choose based solely on likeliness to fail?
We are talking about my options being a CZ75B, CZ75 Compact or CZ P01. I bought the P01 based on the NATO rating alone. It WAS very impressive after all, you have to admit. Still, was any of my other CZ guns ever subjected to such torture? That I do not know, they may have passed as well. And the P01 WAS based off of the already famous CZ75.
But back to my question, if I had to grab ONE gun and go, all things being equal to shooting them all with the same proficiency, which one is more likely not to jam, break, bust or go bump in the night???
I am leaning towards the P01. But with that said, I honestly do not know. I am not talking preferences here, just pure, 100% unadulterated mechanics ONLY. Which one will not fail me for many, many moons?
Thanks ahead of time. In all fairness, I am posting this in the CZ compact forum also.
I used to think I would take my Sig 226 MK25 even though it is 9mm because I believe lots of bullets and exact bullet placement is more important than stopping power of a large caliber.
I simply shot that gun the best but then came along the CZ 75B in Stainless. I am equally proficient in both now. So, I would take them both along with the many mags I have for both.
But most likely I will have a cache of both 9mm and 45 scattered around and well, you can never have too many guns or too much ammo.
I also used to think that the terrible would never happen but now .....I am not so sure; Ebola, gangs, illegals, pseudo-religious terrorists, and our own local police are now loaded like special forces and swat teams of years past. It all makes you wonder where we are headed. My mottoes have always been ..."Be Prepared, have a plan, and get organized."
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you can never have too many guns or too much ammo.
Except when you're drowning or on fire :o
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you can never have too many guns or too much ammo.
Except when you're drowning or on fire :o
Ha, Now that's a truth for sure!!!!
Are you expecting a flood of Biblical proportions? Something we should know?
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Except when you're drowning or on fire :o
Ouch!
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You will also need pin punches with flat tips in 3/32 & 1/8 as well as the starter punch David sells.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/punches/1-16-1-6mm-4-10-2cm-long-sku587475062-8856-21958.aspx?sku=587475062
The pins in the hammer assembly and the trigger pin have to be hammered out.
This is the reason why I like Glock. Almost all of the maintenance can be done with a pen or nail; no hammers, no roll pins to deal with. God forbid you ever lose one of the small springs in your CZ. Heck, I can have a Glock completely detail stripped, except for the sights, in under 2 minutes; maybe close to 1 minute with extra practice. Also, many/most of the spare parts cost less than the postage they are sent with.
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That feature is excellent for pistol maintenance.
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You will also need pin punches with flat tips in 3/32 & 1/8 as well as the starter punch David sells.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/punches/1-16-1-6mm-4-10-2cm-long-sku587475062-8856-21958.aspx?sku=587475062
The pins in the hammer assembly and the trigger pin have to be hammered out.
This is the reason why I like Glock. Almost all of the maintenance can be done with a pen or nail; no hammers, no roll pins to deal with. God forbid you ever lose one of the small springs in your CZ. Heck, I can have a Glock completely detail stripped, except for the sights, in under 2 minutes; maybe close to 1 minute with extra practice. Also, many/most of the spare parts cost less than the postage they are sent with.
That's maybe the only advantage of GLOCK ;D ::)
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When I go to the gun show in WPB, there are usually one to two booths dedicated to Glock modifications; and there are a heck of a lot more Glock owners.
I'll take a CZ over a Glock anytime.
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Now, with that said, if a crisis happens, a SHTF big time break down, all out war kind of thing
The SPO1 due to mag. capacity, stability and "weight as another weapon". Optionally, with 23rds/mag using the CZC short extended mag option, and it's reliable.
I have a very good holster to carry the SP-01 and I shoot it better then I should be able too. More bullets and if my life depended on it I would want that gun to be the one in my hand. The P-01 would be a close second and at one time would have been my go to gun. Not any more. If I were going to have to take 100 yard shots I would swap out for a long gun and if some one was shooting at me from 100 yards with a handgun, I wouldn't shoot back I move and hide.
RCG
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And, above all....if in doubt, empty the magazine!
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Of mine, I personally prefer to carry the BD Police for its' streamline profile like the standard CZ 75 which is thinner then the Phantom. While the Phantom is approximately 7 ounces lighter, I just like the feel of the BD's weight in my hand which also eliminates the PCR.
Now if I was looking at a "World War Z" scenario, I would be carrying 3 of them, they would be the Phantom with light/laser, the BD Police and the PCR. You might ask why but the reasoning is quite simple. It's quicker and less likely for problems to bring a weapon into action then fumbling for a reload. Reload when you have time and are behind cover.
Second if you noticed all three are basically the same other then weight. So familiarity of how the weapons functions eliminates possible confusion during stressful situations.
Third they all can use the same magazines and finally if necessary a malfunctioning weapon can be strip for parts to keep the other two going...
Just my opinion on the subject. 8)
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stmichps/CZ75Pistols-1.jpg)
From Left to Right:
PCR D
SP-01 Phantom
BD Police
Pre-B CZ 75
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Assuming you'd be carrying only 3 handguns. If I were to burden myself down with multiple weapons, then they would all be diff for diff puproses. Handgun, Ar and a shotgun. A back up is a backup, and as long as you have another weapon to shoot, you'd be good to go. I think in writing this question and listening, I'm leaning towards the full size, as I think I answered my own question when I factored in long range shooting. There MIGHT just be a reason I'd need to take a long shot with a handgun, and if so, the CZ75 would have the edge....though I JUST can't seem to ignore that bothersome NATO rating...
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Assuming you'd be carrying only 3 handguns. If I were to burden myself down with multiple weapons, then they would all be diff for diff puproses. Handgun, Ar and a shotgun. A back up is a backup, and as long as you have another weapon to shoot, you'd be good to go. I think in writing this question and listening, I'm leaning towards the full size, as I think I answered my own question when I factored in long range shooting. There MIGHT just be a reason I'd need to take a long shot with a handgun, and if so, the CZ75 would have the edge....though I JUST can't seem to ignore that bothersome NATO rating...
Agree, this makes the situation completely different, as I too would have an AR, a full-sized, high-capacity pistol in a P-09, and a BUG in same caliber like an M&P Shield or the P-01/ PCR. However, this isn't addressing the posted question.
The original question:
But back to my question, if I had to grab ONE gun and go, all things being equal to shooting them all with the same proficiency, which one is more likely not to jam, break, bust or go bump in the night???
In this case with ONE gun, I'd grab my P-01 with extra mags, as I find it the most comfortable and natural pistol in my collection. Truth be told, I was initially impressed by the NATO compliance testing that CZ put the P-01 through to prove it was dependable. That is a good part of the reason I became interested in the P-01 and factored into my decision to purchase it. I was also looking at the PCR as well.
However, in my hands, the P-01 has such a natural POA and is so well balanced that it gives me complete confidence in this pistol for use in self defense and even as my BUG for IDPA. It's nice to know that CZ put it through the NATO compliance testing, but the true test for me is that I want it in my hands when the SHTF.
P4444: I know you have had a different opinion of the P-01 since you first took possession of it. That's understandable as no two people adapt to a firearm the same way.
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I wanted to respond, but in the end, I just wasn't brave enough.
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I wanted to respond, but in the end, I just wasn't brave enough.
Well the BRAVE part was mostly to say that some would not want to be honest enough to risk an argument breaking out. Meaning that for one group to say the full size is superior, means to another, that THEIR CZ was inferior....
So I feared members would not want to be honest and say "I think the CZ75 is a crappy gun and will break the first month into battle"
None of that happened, so I guess I can change the title now :) I am a member of other gun forums and I mean the SECOND you say ANYTHING that can even come close to an opening for an argument to take place (Ar15 Forum is the WORSE for that) all voices come out of the woodwork and start bashing everyone...
P4444: I know you have had a different opinion of the P-01 since you first took possession of it. That's understandable as no two people adapt to a firearm the same way.
Yep. Actually, quite an amazing transformation. Buying online is a new thing to me. Always felt it and held it and then bought it. Buying blindly has become a habit with CZ's cuz NO ONE STOCKS the little boogers!!! Thus, I just don't bother looking anymore. And if you're lucky enough to find one, you find ONE, not many in diff models to choose from. So it did grow on me and then more and then more :)
All said and done, for me, the compact wins hands down, but only for hand fit. Functioning and accuracy, they are all dead on out of the box. What prompted my only last question to know, which one wins the reliability award?
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What prompted my only last question to know, which one wins the reliability award?
I guess one reason you'd ask this is due to the NATO testing of the P-01. Reliability has much to do with one's confidence in a pistol that from having shot it so much, you know it will go "bang" each and every time. The testing process CZ used on the P-01 for NATO compliance was impressive. That being said, I have confidence in all my CZs, and only slightly favor my P-01 because it fits me great and handles great when I shoot it. I favor the P-01 for the same reason you favor the compact. Hmmmm, think I need to shoot a compact . . . .
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Well, it is painful to admit, but I would probably grab my glock 17. But out of all my CZ's which would I prefer to take, I haven't seen it mentioned much in this thread, but probably my P09 Duty. Little bit lighter and 19 round mags. But everyone I train with carries glocks. And if SHTF I would be linking up with them, so we would all be running the same mags, and we all have spare parts. But a fortunate thing, I would be outfitting my family, so even if I wasn't grabbing my CZ out of the safe to take with me, they would still be coming along on the hips of the family. But like mentioned above, AR for 99% of anything that I would come across, and then for ease of use glock 17. But if it was just as easy to get parts for a CZ, I would like to have my P09
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Now, with that said, if a crisis happens, a SHTF big time break down, all out war kind of thing, I am going to have a choice as to which gun I will carry personally. I know, I know, everyone is going to say whichever gun YOU shoot better with. Now let's overlook that for the moment. Let's assume I can shoot them ALL equally well, which I can and do. Which should I choose based solely on likeliness to fail?
In your scenario, my choice of firearm is easy: AR-15 carbine with six to eight 30 round magazines on me.
Backup sidearm would have to be my P-07. My 75BD needs some upgrades/maintenance items for me to be 100% trusting of it.
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Put em all in a bag and head to the nearest gun shop and either trade or steal for a 1911 in 45ACP, hunt up an old "tanker shoulder" grab extra mags, and your FN FAL (u do have one right?), your bug out bag and head to the tree line. Oh yeah your ready for the "balloon" to go up.
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Depending on what kind of crap happens, if I have an extra minute I would grab all firearms and essentials and head to the mountains.
SP01 Tactical. Heavy, but with a good holster and belt it's comfortable and then I have the benefits of an all steel pistol.
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AR with red dot in my hand. G19 with night sights on my hip. I don't have a CZ set up as a fighting gun. That will probably change next year. A Glock might still be the way to go as my CZ won't shoot some long loaded ammo. You never know what you will need/find and a Glock will shoot anything I can get in the magazine. Did I mention, 12 gauge in the trunk?
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Very interesting that most will grab an AR for their rifle. I'm a huge proponent of the AK as the ultimate bug out rifle. Much easier to clean and maintain (if you WANTED to -- they'll go all day without all that pampering). Plus the power factor!
I'll give the AR points for accuracy, but in a SHTF scenario, practical accuracy will be equal. Also, the AR is lighter in stock form, but as most people seem to deck them out, the weight is probably closer than most think. Did I mention the reliability of the AK?
Actually, I'm just getting my Steyr AUG up and running. After a few range sessions and testing with her, she might be my ONE rifle.
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Very interesting that most will grab an AR for their rifle. I'm a huge proponent of the AK as the ultimate bug out rifle. Much easier to clean and maintain (if you WANTED to -- they'll go all day without all that pampering). Plus the power factor!
It's pretty obvious that you don't know how reliable an AR made by a top tier (not Bushmaster/Windham/Rock River/etc) manufacturer is.
I have a LMT carbine. Pretty basic. It's been through a carbine class where it ate 800 rounds a day for two days with no cleaning. A few drops of oil into the bolt carrier group at the end of day for insurance is all I did to it. Not sure if I even needed to do that.
AR's unreliability is limited to two kinds of people
1) those who buy junk rifles from companies that do not follow the USG TDP (technical data package)
2) Those who insist on running them bone dry
As for stopping power, 5.56 will drop someone with center of mass hits every time.
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Very interesting that most will grab an AR for their rifle. I'm a huge proponent of the AK as the ultimate bug out rifle. Much easier to clean and maintain (if you WANTED to -- they'll go all day without all that pampering). Plus the power factor!
I'll give the AR points for accuracy, but in a SHTF scenario, practical accuracy will be equal. Also, the AR is lighter in stock form, but as most people seem to deck them out, the weight is probably closer than most think. Did I mention the reliability of the AK?
Actually, I'm just getting my Steyr AUG up and running. After a few range sessions and testing with her, she might be my ONE rifle.
Not everyone's AR is chambered in a varmint round! ;)
Also, this isn't the 1960's anymore. We are living in the days of the reliable AR15, just like we are living in the days of the reliable semi-auto handgun. I've seen failures with AR's...but I've also seen failures with AK's. No platform is perfect, but both are more than reliable enough for the task at hand.
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I'm not saying ARs are unreliable, I'm just saying that AKs are more reliable, and that's pretty universally accepted. Granted some ARs are capable of running several hundred, if not thousands, of rounds in intense training classes without any hiccups, but those instances are pretty short term. Few days at most. How would that same AR do with just a light oiling or a bore snake down the barrel for several weeks? Probably not as good. I don't want to start an AR vs AK debate, I'm pretty much settled on different folks, different strokes. :D
I will say that in my scenario, an AK is definitely going to be preferable over an AR. ARs tend to like running a bit wet, but with all the dust and sand that blows through beautiful Las Vegas, anything wet is going to gunk up pretty quick. I'm pretty paranoid about that, to the point that I got all my AK internals coated with NP3 so, if push came to shove, I could run it dry thanks to its self-lubricating properties. Now that's not to say I don't use light oil and grease regularly, but if i'm humping around outside in a SHTF scenario, it's going to be wiped down and run dry to reduce the chance of fouling.
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I would go AR over AK for the ergonomics alone...
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Seems I missed a lot while being out of town :) How we got into AK's and AR's by my original question I will only find out after reading 5 pages of replies. But first...
I got my own answer inadvertently. Had just cleaned all 3 CZ's and left out on a towel on my bedroom bench assembled and cleaned up nicely. All loaded and one in the chamber as usual.
Went to sleep. Woke up around 3:45 am to one of those "no doubt about it sounds, someone is breaking in to my house." I jumped up, glanced at all 3 guns, and before I had time to think about it, the P-01 was in my hands as I raced down the stairway. I just remember thinking for a milisecond in my head, not a great time to have a gun jam or malfunction.
In the back on my mind, the NATO tests ASSURED me the P01 would be the most likely candidate to NOT MALFUNCTION. So I guess I now know, which one would be my war gun if I had to choose only one.
Just too powerful to ignore that NATO rating. Now, on to see how we are arguing about AR's and AK's....but before reading, AR hands down (:0)-----{
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"I'm not saying ARs are unreliable, I'm just saying that AKs are more reliable"
Yes, you are correct, you CAN rely on the AK to reliably miss it's target time and time again :)
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Plumber, great that you answered your question! Hope everything is well.. and that sound was a false alarm :)
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Left a can of bisquits out of fridge round 5 pm. Was going to make some, but changed my mind. However, I unwrapped the paper from the can but didn't bang it on the edge of the counter to open it. Well....guess the heat in the house made the can spring open and it was a loud POP. It was just one of those noises that does NOT belong in a house at 3 am. In your mind, you know it's not a crackling house sound or distant sound that could or could not be. It was something is def amiss around here...
Good thing I had my P01 to blow that can away!!! :)
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Have you ever tried to shoot an AK with a 30 round magazine prone? Not fun, was it. I find a "fighting size" AR is more maneuverable and easier to handle. Add a few inches to the barrel (My JP) and it gets harder.
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My PO-1 has been my security and range gun. I have a Kadet kit on it at the moment and really enjoy shooting it.
My 75B has been nothing but reliable, never a problem over the years.
Richard
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I would grab my latest project. ;)(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/14/5a84d182a0cf8a4e72280079c0211339.jpg)
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G17 and AR. What I have on hand most of the time
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Well, I have answered this before .... but recently I purchased a few 20 round magazines for my CZ 75B in Brushed Stainless.
I like the way it feels in my hand and I like the fact that instead of 2 ea. 10 rd magazines; with just one 20 rd magazine I am loaded and ready for anything.
And the fact that with this pistol I could drive tacks ..... it will be my go-to-gun for a long time to come.
I even use this pistol as my CCW most of the time. It just never fails to function flawlessly.
The only thing I would change with the pistol is to allow the safety to function in the half cocked / dropped hammer position like my P-07 Duty.
BTW - my other favorite CCW is my Sig P226 Mk 25.
Sigh, so many decisions each day!
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Plumber 4444
Perp's at 100 Yrds would give you time to set up Shooting Bench and test as many MODEL'S as necessary to make choice for best Carry! LOL, I'm thinking you would have to be a good Judge of Character at that range!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Left a can of bisquits out of fridge round 5 pm. Was going to make some, but changed my mind. However, I unwrapped the paper from the can but didn't bang it on the edge of the counter to open it. Well....guess the heat in the house made the can spring open and it was a loud POP. It was just one of those noises that does NOT belong in a house at 3 am. In your mind, you know it's not a crackling house sound or distant sound that could or could not be. It was something is def amiss around here...
Good thing I had my P01 to blow that can away!!! :)
Years ago I was in bed (buck-ass naked) and I heard noises out in the living room. The dog was on the bed so I knew it wasn't that,,,, as a matter of fact she seemed concerned and crawled over me so that I was between her and the door. I laid there a listened for awhile and the noises continued.
I grabbed my bedside gun and crept out into the living room (still naked) ready to kill the intruders. I saw no one,, then I heard the noise again. A bluegill had jumped out of the aquarium and landed in the dogs toy basket.
I figured if the fish wanted to escape that badly, that I would help it. I picked up the fish, opened the front door (still naked) and threw the bluegill out into the front yard.