The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ Polymer Pistols: P10, P-07, P-09 => Topic started by: briang2ad on February 03, 2018, 12:12:53 PM
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P07 number 0ne - terribly gritty and hard to pull. Went back to CZ. They polished and replaced the disconnector. Several hundred rounds and thousands of dry fires have also helped. Now, after the extended FP and 15 LB spring, it is VERY good.
P07 number 2. OTB - much better. BUT, after a few hundred rounds, an extended FP and 15 LB spring and polishing, it stacks hard in the rear - especially with night lubrication. I suppose the disconnector roller is shot.
Overall, I am dissappointed in the 07/09 trigger system.
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IMO the real benefits show when you upgrade the stock internals with CGW parts. Stock can be good but seems like more of a gamble.
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I?m beginning to believe that the roller is this systems achilles heal.
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I?m beginning to believe that the roller is this systems achilles heal.
I would tend to agree, at least in terms of trigger quality.
Some of the stock rollers are really rough...
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For educational purposes, for the rest of us, you should swap rollers between the two guns and see if the problem follows the roller???
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OK - here we go. it is butter now.
I suspected I put the backstrap retaining pin in for the trigger pin - ouch - and I was right.
I disassembled and this time, POLISHED the roller. THIS IS EASY. Take a thin brass punch and place the roller on the punch. Block one end with your finger. Take a felt wheel with a tad of Flitz on it and polish the snot out of it. (My roller is .214). The roller will come out gleaming and smooth with no imperfections.
I had a CGW SRT kit on hand, so I put the parts in to see what that would be like.
My DA is amazing - glass like over butter and even. WOW. Reset is a tad shorter and there is a bit less camming - this is an effect of the SR Kit. Now it is sweet.
But I still despise putting the decocker spring back in. That is a royal PITA.
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Like it or not, the roller is here to stay in the Omega system. I like it since it greatly simplifies the lock work(s) and you can use it as an effective custom tuning tool, but then who keeps a lot of different rollers laying around?
We had a P-07 in the shop last week that had a DA pull from h_ll, even with the usual tricks it stacked to badly it was ridiculous. With some experimenting, we found the factory installed roller had a much to large OD.
Found the "right" OD and this thing went from 9 plus lbs. and stacking horribly, to 8 lbs. 3 oz. and awesome. At least it could be fixed.
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Sometimes I wonder what QC is really like at the CZUB factory. Tolerances seem to be all over the place.
I'm hoping things will improve once the US factory comes online...
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Sometimes I wonder what QC is really like at the CZUB factory. Tolerances seem to be all over the place.
I'm hoping things will improve once the US factory comes online...
QC on production guns leaves quite a bit to be desired across the board. Tolerances run the gamut in all brands. Recently adopted a new Beretta 92 FS and had to do the same things to it that one would do to any CZ75 to make the trigger good.
As for the US factory having good QC when it opens up yea I'm still laughing at that one. Made in the USA used to mean something but eh not anymore. I've sent more S&W's back to Springfield Mass. than I have anything else.
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IMO the real benefits show when you upgrade the stock internals with CGW parts. Stock can be good but seems like more of a gamble.
EXACTLY!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Like it or not, the roller is here to stay in the Omega system. I like it since it greatly simplifies the lock work(s) and you can use it as an effective custom tuning tool, but then who keeps a lot of different rollers laying around?
We had a P-07 in the shop last week that had a DA pull from h_ll, even with the usual tricks it stacked to badly it was ridiculous. With some experimenting, we found the factory installed roller had a much to large OD.
Found the "right" OD and this thing went from 9 plus lbs. and stacking horribly, to 8 lbs. 3 oz. and awesome. At least it could be fixed.
I threw in a bunch of CGW parts, so I'm not really sure which part made it that much better. I am using the mid size roller, and shooting my P07 is a joy now even if the trigger pull is heavy 9-10 lbs. I think to think it's training for shooting my S2 in DA :P I also felt bending the spring (can't remember the name, the one on the frame that sits against the roller) made a huge difference.
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I'm interested in this thread and any opinions on my P-09 trigger which seems quite different than my metal-frame CZ's which seem to smooth out nicely after a couple thousand rounds/dry fires. Sweet!
Just added the P-09 SR to my CZ fleet and notice if I pull through SA trigger slowly there's a slight 'notch' before the sear releases. Doesn't feel like the 'wall' I would describe on my G-17. If I decock several times then try SA trigger, the 1st SA pull has no notch (nice!) but then it returns again. Huh???
I've shot about 500 rounds through the P-09, and dry-fired another 1000+ but notch isn't smoothing out. It's not like the pull is hard (~3.5 lbs) but not a smooth 'camming' prior to sear releasing. I wonder if this 'notch' is common on omega triggers?? It's not as noticeable on my P-07. And non-existent on my metal frame CZ's after break-in (which seem to just get better and better with more rounds).
As s0nspark has commented; perhaps it's just the untamed 'personality difference' that seems to be coming from CZ's production tolerances??
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Well as I was told by CGW themselves, they could take 10 identical pistols and put their magic to them 7 will come out beautiful 2 will come out fairly good and one could be crappy No matter what they did to it.
My P09I did all this suggested polishing changed a few Springs and I have a 6.5DA 2.7 Sa... As slick as butter and butter.
I believe one of the biggest changes came was when I stoned and polished the left side of the frame alongside the hammer and also did the left side of the hammer.omg !!
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Well as I was told by CGW themselves, they could take 10 identical pistols and put their magic to them 7 will come out beautiful 2 will come out fairly good and one could be crappy No matter what they did to it.
My P09I did all this suggested polishing changed a few Springs and I have a 6.5DA 2.7 Sa... As slick as butter and butter.
I believe one of the biggest changes came was when I stoned and polished the left side of the frame alongside the hammer and also did the left side of the hammer.omg !!
Stuart@CZCustoms told me something similar. P-07/P-09 each have a personality of their own despite getting the same treatment.
My P-07 Duty is smooooth with only springs and FP being up upgraded. My P-09 on the other hand, has been difficult to "tune".
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This is why I no longer order pistols. I want to sample/dry fire the pistol to see how it feels. I also wish to observe the target to see how well it hits (right or left of target).
If I were to want something that the LGS has that has a target I don't like or a trigger I find very difficult to live with I'll call CGW and ask them to "make it right" hoping they won't allow that "one in ten" pistol (if that is what they were sent) leave the shop and end up in my safe.
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I'm interested in this thread and any opinions on my P-09 trigger which seems quite different than my metal-frame CZ's which seem to smooth out nicely after a couple thousand rounds/dry fires.
Before I went all polymer with my CZs, I owned 2 75BDs, and SP-01 Tactical and a PCR. I sent all 4 to CGW for the magic and, of the 4, the PCR ended up with the best trigger by far.
That is just to say the there is some variance in the metal framed guns too.
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Much appreciate the feedback given above.
I like the way the P-09 feels with Talon grip just added, it's very accurate to well beyond the limits of my eyesight, and so far 100% reliable without a hiccup. I'm hoping it can replace my last striker, the Glock 17 so my defensive manual of arms will all be decocker DA/SA. I've got a lot more rounds through my P-07 and it's really quite good. I'll dig a bit deeper into the P-09 to see if I can determine the cause of the 'notch'; try to 'burnish' it out, or just quit screwing around and Cajunize. I want to know it's very good before milling for RDS and ditching the Glock. Thanks for suggestions. -Vinny
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P.S.-Update: Spent some time 'burnishing' the sear (aka GI Trigger Job) with a slight forward press on hammer as I pull trigger and hold hammer from dropping. Repeat. Repeat. Trigger seems to be getting better, less 'notch' and SA trigger averaging 2lb 15oz now and DA right at 9lbs with my Lyman. Not perfect yet, but very acceptable. I'm gaining confidence this can be a great gun.
I may be jaded by my new Sig P229 Legion RX's trigger. Superb right out of the box with that smooth camming to a crisp break that I like; with a very short reset. But of course it cost almost 3X the $$. My Sp-01 Tactical is almost as nice, so I know a CZ can measure up, perhaps the P-09 too with a little more effort and a few upgraded parts. O0
Thanks again for all the suggestions in this thread.
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At least I admitted my own brain cramp with the reversing pins! LOL.
I now feel pretty fortunate about my two very good P07s. And... per CGW/Schmeky, the roller bearing may be the biggest culprit.
The positive: The P series is VERY shootable, reliable, and accurate. Even though the grip may not feel QUITE as good as a 75 with the right custom grips, it sits in the hand so well, it just plain shoots.
I WILL have to chide CZ-UB on QC. It sounds to me like they have NOT transitioned proper QC into their P line and specifically the roller bearing - it sounds to me that IF they got this right, 75% or our troubles would blow away. They should contract out to CGW until they learn how to do it right.
I think they are behind the industry in this area. SIG is able to push out a similarly priced pistol with an amazingly smooth and consistent trigger - the SP 2022. Frankly, every PX4 I pick up is butter smooth also. And these guns have a very clean SA too. Not so with CZ.
The P design has flaws. The 75 series has fewer issues especially when worked on because of its design. The double trigger bar and captured sear parts (cage) aid in making those guns more consistent. The interface of the double trigger bar and sear cage makes it all more consistent also. Sure, bad QC happens even to the metal guns - I had a P01 that went back three times and I ultimately ditched it. If I had known how to deal with the decocker, I would have likely worked it out, but in those days no one really did. So, I think the 75 is easier to polish and get results overall.
Think about it - without the sear cage things are kinda hanging in there - more of a problem when one or more tolerances are off. So part of it is design and part QC.
This all makes me want to get a Phantom instead of a P09. Hmmmmm... (My 'ultimate' nightmare is to order a P09 online [cuz they are unicorns anyway] and get one that has a permanently bad trigger).
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Why don't you just by a sig or something else with a trigger you like? I've lost count of the posts you've made complaining about the P-series trigger.
Incidentally I've handled all the other guns you continually mention that are supposed to be soo smooth and honestly I don't think they're all that great either. Recently handled a Sig Legion in 10mm and the trigger while crisp had to be 7lbs in SA and that's not too good for a gun with an msrp of the Legion line.
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I believe the Tactical Sports have a single legged trigger bar. Mine does. Yeah, it's SAO, but at 1.75 lb. trigger pull, no creep, etc. I don't think only having a single leg on the trigger bar is a problem.
I've only got 3 P-guns (1 P07 and 2 P09's). The P07 is awesome (compared to Glock, XDM, Browning, Beretta, and M&P guns in my safe), the 9MM P09 is right there next to the P07 and the .40 S&W P07 lags behind them when a gap between it and the 9MM.
Sorry yours is showing issues.
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This all makes me want to get a Phantom instead of a P09. Hmmmmm... (My 'ultimate' nightmare is to order a P09 online [cuz they are unicorns anyway] and get one that has a permanently bad trigger).
P-09s are only unicorns for a time - CZ production runs in cycles of mysterious length. There is always something that seems scarce at the moment...
... and if that is your ultimate nightmare, you and I definitely have different kinds of nightmares ;-)
As a relatively new trigger snob I have realized a few things.
1. Most people don't care and couldn't or wouldn't notice an average vs great trigger
2. A wonderful trigger is great to have but not necessary to shoot well.
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My unicorn statement is about trying one out. Rarely do CZs appear in an LGS, and then only one or two models. Gun Shows are another possibility.
My first P07 was REALLY REALLY bad, and now its very nice, so I know there is hope for many a P series gun. But, I've heard the CGW statement on bad P series guns more than once - the first time from the source!
The CZ shoots well also because of the shorter trigger throw, not because of the refined trigger.
Yes, I am a trigger snob.
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And good barrel to slide lock up, too. My 9MM P09 shoots better than any other semi-auto pistol I've ever shot. My P07 comes in second place.
Even my Tactical Sport won't hang with the P09, but maybe I just haven't found "the load" for it. I know my .40 S&W P07 shoots better groups than my .40 S&W P09, but that is with the same 135 grain hollow point load the P07 "likes" so much. A different load might shoot better in the P09 and/or the Tactical Sport.
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This is all very discouraging because the P-07 is on my short list for carry in the next few months. So the trigger can get worse after a break in? I'm all for trigger kits and have done the $97 Apex DCAEK on an M&P of mine but the CGW kit is quite a bit more and no guaranty of success. My heart says get one and hope for the best but my brain is saying keep looking.
Does the older P-07 Duty have the same Omega trigger?
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This is all very discouraging because the P-07 is on my short list for carry in the next few months. So the trigger can get worse after a break in?
Don't let this discourage you... those "1 in 10" odds aren't a scientific statement of fact. The last two P-07s I ordered in stock form were actually quite good out of the box... MUCH better than my first two.
If you really wanted to play it safe, order your P-07 already Cajunized direct from CGW - you will be sure to get a solid one then.
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This is all ringing very true in my most recent experience getting into P series CZ's. Got a p-09 first - all stock, GREAT trigger - very smooth D/A. Bought a used p-07 with cajun pro package (owner installed) - couldn't wait to try it out after the stock 09 was so great. When I got the 07 I was shocked at how horrible the D/A trigger was - seemed more than twice as heavy as the 09 and SOOO gritty. I figured that was why I got such a good deal on the 07, even with the parts - it was just a bad trigger. I thought for sure one or more of the parts had to be installed incorrectly or something - that's how bad it was. So did everything in the polish thread - put it all back together - still super heavy D/A, lot less gritty though. Called cajun, got the same 1 in 10 guns stuff. They did tell me about the rollers. I slowly put stock parts back in the gun and did a little more polishing and got the trigger MUCH MUCH better. Now, I've gotten it almost on par with the 09 - just still a little heavier, but I'm completely back to stock except the 18lb main spring and TRS. But the 09 trigger is so good, I may be selling the un-opened pro kit I bought for it, and may even do the same with the used kit as well.
After just under 1k rounds through my 1st P-09, and a little under 200 through the 07, I have another 09 on the way, will be very interested in seeing how the trigger on it is. To have SO MUCH difference between triggers is quite interesting and a lot lacking from CZ. I won't be easily swayed away from the platform though - I have barely over 400 in each pistol so far and have been shooting quite well and with a lot less effort than most pistols I have worked with, especially for my first real dive into DA/SA. If I can get/make the stock guns/parts on par with the 2 I have so far - they will be more than good enough for my trigger finger.
It does suck that it can be such a crap shoot from the factory though.
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Well, they ain't $800 handguns. If I bought an $800 to $1200 pistol I'd expect it to be perfect. If I buy a $400 to $500 pistol I expect it to be reliable and pretty accurate. If it was "perfect", great. If not, I still got more for my money that I would with many other handguns. Am I what they call a "fanboy"??
They are reliable and accurate, mine have been so far. Out of 14 only one has been back for warranty work (front tritium sight on the UG P01 died on me one weekend). Took about 8 or 9 days to get it back from CZ USA. I've replaced parts (more for fun than because I hated the trigger/action) in 5 of them. Only 1 really needed parts and it was a very well used and abused Pre CZ 85. One of the Compacts had a just down right nasty trigger, as compared to my other CZ's.
Good, and bad, in every product. I've got a safe full of semi-auto handguns of various American made handguns, as well as a three or four foreign made models and I've bought nothing but CZ's now for probably 6 years, after that first P07.
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If I buy a $400 to $500 pistol I expect it to be reliable and pretty accurate. If it was "perfect", great. If not, I still got more for my money that I would with many other handguns.
This is exactly how I see it.
I've picked up most of my P-07s for between $425 and $525 and immediately added $250 of CGW goodness to them as a starting point. I feel that gives you a solid, well-performing pistol well under what something similar would cost from other brands. Add to that the options of milling for an optic and adding a stealth comp - to a TDA pistol - and I really don't see anything that competes with a P-07/P-09 without costing much more and bringing other baggage to the table.
The stock guns are a great value. They are not generally well-tuned out of the box (although in my experience they've been getting better overall) but they tune up nicely in most cases with minimal effort and at a reasonable cost. What more can you ask of in a sub-$500 gun?
I get it, though - few people expect to buy a new product only to start replacing parts on it. I would say, though, that is exactly how you should see this. That is the real beauty of this platform.
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+1
Thank You M1A4ME, s0nspark, and others for putting this discussion into perspective.
I just paid $529 for my P-09 SR with threaded barrel, very good tall night sights, and (two) 21 round mags, adjustable backstraps, and the option to run as decocker, SAO or SA/DA with safety. It came with a test-firing pattern (5 rounds at 25 meters) proving the gun's accuracy and POI vs POA. I mean, how many handguns even come with test-firing anymore? That's a lot of handgun for just over $500.
Add to that the P-09's reputation for reliability, durability, accuracy, and shootability.
OK, so I asked for some suggestions on this thread about how to improve my P-09 trigger; simply because I know how good a CZ trigger can be (own more than a handful). I've been able to improve my other CZ's with just shooting/dry-firing 1000+ and a little 'burnishing' or polishing. $ZERO out-of-pocket expense, just patience and DIY tuning. I believe my P-09 will be the same, and comparable to guns at 2 to 3 X the cost.
There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks on this Forum that are happy to share suggestions to improve your CZ's. However, I do hope that CZ newbies or potential CZ buyers don't misconstrue these discussions as complaints. You won't see any of MY CZ's for sale anytime soon! ;)
Just Say'in.
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What is wrong with your CZ pistol?..................I N D I V I D U A L >>T A S T E in most cases!! I have done my share of complaints about guns, but seems like there are to many people listening to other complaints and grouping them into what they PERCEIVE as a problem with their CZ firearm. Custom this and custom that to make the "unicorn of all guns" happen to your CZ is what is wrong with many of them. My problem with CZ Custom and CGW is not the work they do, it it the lack of telling people to go out and shoot the crap out of your CZ before you think about what you need ....NEED the key word, to have a reliable firearm for EDC. If you think a 1 pound difference in the double action of a DA/SA pistol makes all the difference in a self defense scenario...well I lost you with common sense before the post began. Now saying that, people buying a CZ, like a P-07 or 09 and expecting an out of the box, high grade, match ready, firearm ...well it ain't going to be one!! These people go right ahead and spend $600-$800 to make it a Dan Wesson like competition firearm if that is your desired final result. Sending the firearm back to CZ is going to give you OEM parts replacement and in 100% of the cases, will not give the result professional custom work like CZ Custom and CGW will give you. These companies do have their stuff together and their CUSTOM work is outstanding. I have owned many pistols in my almost 70 years and I have seen a new POS turn into a great firearm by just shooting it. Some people cringe at the words " breaking a firearm in" but there is no custom work that can smooth out the little wrinkles in a new firearm intending for EDC like shooting it. After that, some buffing and tweaking like many posts describe, then part replacement as the last resort.
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Some people cringe ant the words " breaking a firearm in" but there is no custom work that can smooth out the little wrinkles in a new firearm intending for EDC like shooting it. After that, some buffing and tweaking like many posts describe, then part replacement as the last resort.
Good points.
I am in the ?no polish? camp with regard to guns I carry. I do upgrade parts and then shoot a minimum of 400 trouble-free rounds through it before I carry it but I do no polishing. I prefer to let the parts wear in naturally.
For competition guns, though, all bets are off. Any advantage is on the table. :)
Having realistic expectations and, yes, a clear understanding of what you need out of a gun based on how you will use it is important.
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+1
Thank You M1A4ME, s0nspark, and others for putting this discussion into perspective.
Thanks from me too. Every youtube and forum review of the P-07 that I've read has been very favorable until I ran across this thread. I think I can put the P07 back on the short list and will start looking for one locally.
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Find an SP 2022 with a trigger that isn?t smooth and report back please.
If we don?t call out CZ on QC who will? Maybe they listen. I?M just saying they can do better even at the price point.
I?m not talking preference- just QC.
I have my 2 P07s cuz their good. I may order a P09. So, I have SOME confidence. I also always post the positive with the negative. My first auto was a CZ and I have a special place for my CZs. But I like to call them as they are.
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OK - here we go. it is butter now.
I suspected I put the backstrap retaining pin in for the trigger pin - ouch - and I was right.
I disassembled and this time, POLISHED the roller. THIS IS EASY. Take a thin brass punch and place the roller on the punch. Block one end with your finger. Take a felt wheel with a tad of Flitz on it and polish the snot out of it. (My roller is .214). The roller will come out gleaming and smooth with no imperfections.
I had a CGW SRT kit on hand, so I put the parts in to see what that would be like.
My DA is amazing - glass like over butter and even. WOW. Reset is a tad shorter and there is a bit less camming - this is an effect of the SR Kit. Now it is sweet.
Thank You Brian2ad for letting us know the cause of much of your trigger issue in your OP, was a pin you installed wrong. Appreciate your honesty.
This is why I agree with others that before changing ANYTHING I prefer to shoot/dry fire at least a thousand rounds, which IMO is just initial break-in on CZ's that can go 10's of thousands of rounds. For DEFENSIVE guns, unless there's known issues, I prefer to just keep the internals stock; giving the factory the benefit of the doubt that they know a whole lot more than I do, and they've prioritized long-term reliability. It's surprising how most issues seem to just smooth out.
If for some reason they don't, I haven't made changes that would effect my Warranty.
BTW, I recently had a SIG that the trigger wouldn't reset whatsoever right out of the box. Dead on arrival! They couldn't have even test fired this gun. Sure, they took care of it promptly, but the assertion that SIG doesn't have issues like every factory, especially on new models; is simply false or wishful thinking.
I'm glad that we can discuss and share SOLUTIONS on this Forum, and not just complaints.
Thanks, Vinny
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Yet another tip: my roller bearings are both .214. Called CGW- all I can do is polish them, so they I did. They do not recommend replacement unless it?s closer to their .220 bearing folks.
Stick it on a brass punch and put a felt wheel to it. Does fairly well.
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I don't own a SIG pistol (almost, looked at them, found out none of those levers and buttons on the left side are safeties and they couldn't be carried cocked and locked so I walked a few tables down and bought that P07.)
I do own a couple SIG rifles. And those will be all I'll own. SIG is by rifles like S&W is by pistols. Every 3 or 4 years they up and change design/models and go to the next best/new/sweet thing. Then do it again a few years later. I've got a 556R (what they call a 2nd Gen model) and it's been a pretty good rifle. Then they quit making it and stopped supporting it with spare parts and went to the 55Xi (or something like that). I almost bought my wife one in .223 but then they stopped making that one and went to the MPX. How long will they make the MPX? Okay, I'll stop complaining about SIG and their inability to design/build/stick with a rifle for a few years.
My P09 target after I had the RMR installed on it. Only 7 yds., or 7.5 yds. and the pistol was rested (my wrists actually), but I was trying to make sure it was sighted in.
I shot at the center and got three shots a little high/left. I made an adjustment to the RMR and decided to shoot at the target company logo in the bottom right of the paper. I put the next 7 shots on the logo in a nice group. That P09 shoots pretty darn good and had a good trigger, too. My wife keeps telling me how lucky I am (but I don't think she's talking about my guns).
(https://i.imgur.com/IJW6S6ql.jpg?1)
Check out Joe's videos on You Tube for 100 and 200 yd. groups with his 9MM P09. Part of the reason I bought my P09 when I did.
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Nice shooting.
Yeah, Joe's videos at 100-200 yards with his P-09 are AMAZING! An inspiration for sure, and testimony to the inherent accuracy of the P-07 and P-09 series guns. My 'ol eyes can't even see the bull's eye at those distances, never mind shooting it, so plenty accurate for me.
The P-07 and P-09 are ideal for adding an RDS with their wider top of slide, and the Suppressor-Ready threaded barrel models are reasonably priced if you're planning to add a comp, it's already good-to-go. I'm having a P-07 SR milled at Primary right now, and the slide cerakoted titanium at the same time. All-in with P-07 SR, Vortex Venom RDS, milling, Talon grip and cerakoting about $850. I can't wait to shoot that first 1,000 rounds to break that trigger in! O0
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Find an SP 2022 with a trigger that isn?t smooth and report back please.
If we don?t call out CZ on QC who will? Maybe they listen. I?M just saying they can do better even at the price point.
I?m not talking preference- just QC.
So have you been on the Sig forum calling them out on the issues their guns have?
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Yup. Called out German SIGS with rough triggers.
But let?s not let the Glockboys look good now. 😎
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Yup. Called out German SIGS with rough triggers.
But let?s not let the Glockboys look good now. 😎
They have their issues too even with the gen 5 guns. Which is the point completely. They ALL have QC issues. Even Bill Wilson let's a ringer slip by now and then.
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My stock P07 has a good trigger and my stock P09 has an excellent trigger. Took the P09 and my 75B compact to the range today. The 75B compact is fairly new and its trigger is ok and getting better with use. I was shooting some 2" target dots at 7 yards offhand and did better with the P09. Then I tried a rental S&W Model 69 with the 2.75" barrel. Fired 50 rounds each of 44 spc. and 44 magnum. Then went back to the CZ's and was shooting much better. The slightly stiff single action trigger of the 75B Compact was not a "problem" after 100 rounds through that little 44 Magnum.
If you're having the flinches and/or dealing with a "sub-optimal" trigger, try a small-ish magnum revolver. A 5 lb. single action break on a 9mm is nothing after that.
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My wife can not hit a barn @10 feet with any of my semi auto pistols....but when we shoot her .32 Mag revolver she shoots rings around me. That Charter Arms trigger seems to be about 20 pounds of pull in double action to me. For 72 years old, she is steady as a rock pulling the trigger.
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Back to the point.
Nearly every CZ OTB is accurate and reliable, and to a lesser or greater degree - ergonomic. The P series is great in these areas.
With a thousand rounds and some polishing most can be made to have good triggers. Some, evidently not so much. For many its no big deal I also suspect, because many folks don't even use DA, and hitting with a CZ in SA is a no brainer.
The grip of the P07/09 is a natural to hit the target - that is why I give it a slight edge over my 2022.
BUT... I've never felt a 2022 or a PX4 with grittiness, and they are in the same price point. CZ could do better. That's all I'm saying. I LIKE CZ. I wish they'd do a tighter QC. A better trigger makes a difference. I also like the SLIGHTLY shorter DA throw on the CZ - this makes up for some of the stacking in some guns.
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If everybody who buys a po7 or po9 , does all of the suggested polishing and changing of a few Springs , they are a smooooth and beautiful shooting pistol.
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If everybody who buys a po7 or po9 , does all of the suggested polishing and changing of a few Springs , they are a smooooth and beautiful shooting pistol.
I think this is probably true and am working on my way to finding out. I'll be one happy guy with a stable full of 07/09's in a very short time. The cost to shoot-ability ratio (or potential of) is quite high.
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I'm interested in this thread and any opinions on my P-09 trigger which seems quite different than my metal-frame CZ's which seem to smooth out nicely after a couple thousand rounds/dry fires.
Before I went all polymer with my CZs, I owned 2 75BDs, and SP-01 Tactical and a PCR. I sent all 4 to CGW for the magic and, of the 4, the PCR ended up with the best trigger by far.
That is just to say the there is some variance in the metal framed guns too.
Why'd you decide to go all polymer?
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Before I went all polymer with my CZs, I owned 2 75BDs, and SP-01 Tactical and a PCR. I sent all 4 to CGW for the magic and, of the 4, the PCR ended up with the best trigger by far.
That is just to say the there is some variance in the metal framed guns too.
Why'd you decide to go all polymer?
A lot of it was just that I wanted to be able to work on the guns myself. The Omega system is simple enough to allow me to do that.
I also like the slight weight savings and the option to stipple...
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As the OP: there is also a sort of ?American Addiction ? going on here. There is great satisfaction in ordering a few parts and making a mediocre trigger into a nice one. I get that, and CGW gets kudos for helping us addicts. (But I still think CZ QC on the trigger parts especially the roller ought to improve). We know they have great QC on their barrels!
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There is great satisfaction in ordering a few parts and making a mediocre trigger into a nice one.
Indeed, and doing so at a more than fair price point is icing on the cake!
I still think CZ QC on the trigger parts especially the roller ought to improve
No argument here. It would be nice to get a better out of the box gun, for sure.
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Yeah, Joe's videos at 100-200 yards with his P-09 are AMAZING! An inspiration for sure, and testimony to the inherent accuracy of the P-07 and P-09 series guns. My 'ol eyes can't even see the bull's eye at those distances, never mind shooting it, so plenty accurate for me.
The P-07 and P-09 are ideal for adding an RDS with their wider top of slide, and the Suppressor-Ready threaded barrel models are reasonably priced if you're planning to add a comp, it's already good-to-go. I'm having a P-07 SR milled at Primary right now, and the slide cerakoted titanium at the same time. All-in with P-07 SR, Vortex Venom RDS, milling, Talon grip and cerakoting about $850. I can't wait to shoot that first 1,000 rounds to break that trigger in! O0
P-07's back from Primary today. Can't wait to dial in the optic! Woo Hoo! O0
(https://i.imgur.com/mwGjiGS.jpg?1)